TheDreadnought

Maybe removing invisifire will shake up high tier gameplay.

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The plain fact of life is that high tier gameplay sucks.  Its really not worth progressing past tier 8 right now.  Maybe once open water invisifire is gone, play will get a little more dynamic.  Battleships might advance more once they're no longer subject to a continual rain of shells they can do nothing to counter or escape from.

 

I'm sure some people will say it won't help at all.  I guess we'll find out.

 

All we know for sure is that the way things are set up right now is not working.  Its time to make some changes.

Edited by TheDreadnought

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Its time to make some changes.

 

Change for the sake of change is idiotic, more likely to make it worse than better.

 

Make some changes, but make sure they are good changes.


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Stealth fire needs to be removed but I still find high tier gameplay to be the most enjoyable.


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Make some changes, but make sure they are good changes.

 

Well, duh!

The only way to determine if they are good is to actually make the changes. :facepalm:


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And what if this isn't the magic bullet? I'll guarantee that invisifiring isn't what keeps the game bogged down at high tiers. It won't change. 


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It just is what it is, removing Invisi fire isn't drastic enough to change the "meta". I honestly don't think there is anything terribly wrong with high tier play, tho I don't play it all that often.


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Change for the sake of change is idiotic, more likely to make it worse than better.

 

Make some changes, but make sure they are good changes.

 

Ultimately in this game, there's only so much you can do to predict player behavior.  For something like that you just have to try it and see if it works.

 

The only thing idiotic would be sticking with what isn't working.


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Your personal opinion is not a fact of life.

Tier 10s are played proportional to other tiers if you consider how many people will have made it to tier 10, 9 etc.

I actually enjoy the 8-10 gameplay. It takes considerably more strategy, patience and skill to outplay your opponents simply because the skill level of players is improved the higher tier you go.

I dislike low tier games, but i'm not going to let my thoughts allow me to make a claim that a lot of people think that, or that low tier games are bad.

 

Invisifire is also not your problem. You are only really suffering invisifire from US DDs at this point, and they are very inaccurate. Akizuki is a true abuser of this mechanic, but everything beyond that can do without in much the same way.


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It just is what it is, removing Invisi fire isn't drastic enough to change the "meta". I honestly don't think there is anything terribly wrong with high tier play, tho I don't play it all that often.

 

Maybe if high tier play was more fun, you might be inspired to play it more often.

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Stealth fire removal will be hardly noticed at high tiers (9 and 10).  Zao will lose a ~3km window, with Ibuki, but Khab was a primary issue and it has also been removed last year.  Khab will still run around, fully visible, dancing and taunting while it rains fire.  Other ships can stealth fire now, but I don't think it's a huge factor for most of them, despite the occasional AFT Gearing that I see trying to hit me from 13km or whatever.

 

Some people like playing lower tiers, where they can derp more often without being instantly punished, which is what tier 9-10 armament does.  Survivability doesn't scale at the same pace as Cold War or fictional firepower, so making a mistake is more hazardous.  Removing stealth fire is only a small part of that.


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Fletcher will still torp, Khabarovsk will rain pain, Shima will still launch "walls of skill" and people will still find a reason to reverse out of spawn.  It's the way things are.


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Your personal opinion is not a fact of life.

Tier 10s are played proportional to other tiers if you consider how many people will have made it to tier 10, 9 etc.

I actually enjoy the 8-10 gameplay. It takes considerably more strategy, patience and skill to outplay your opponents simply because the skill level of players is improved the higher tier you go.

I dislike low tier games, but i'm not going to let my thoughts allow me to make a claim that a lot of people think that, or that low tier games are bad.

 

Invisifire is also not your problem. You are only really suffering invisifire from US DDs at this point, and they are very inaccurate. Akizuki is a true abuser of this mechanic, but everything beyond that can do without in much the same way.

 

 

I think you're flat out wrong on the enjoyability of high tier play.  But let's see what people think.  Maybe I'm alone in feeling this way.  But I don't think so.

 

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/119386-do-you-enjoy-high-tier-gameplay-as-it-exists-today/

 

 

 

 


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Maybe if high tier play was more fun, you might be inspired to play it more often.

Yes and no.

 

I haven't been playing enough to feel comfortable at high tiers, that's my reason.

 

But maybe high tiers should be less "fun", the higher the tier the more skilled you should be in theory. The more stressful it will be for the less skilled and likely less fun. 

 

T10 should be for serious play imo, it should be where high skilled players go to shoot at each other...


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They have attempted several changes, and failed miserably in all of them...

They bred a certain mindset with the absurd cost structure at top tier and now they are paying the price. Even though they made it possible to play tier 10 for a price,they can't change the mindset. Many players are still unwilling to spend the money at top tier, still haven't even figured out that dying is meaningless, and simply fear looking bad by getting insta-deleted.

Not sure there is an answer, the meta has become so entrenched, you often see it at lower tiers now too.


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The plain fact of life is that high tier gameplay sucks.  Its really not worth progressing past tier 8 right now.  Maybe once open water invisifire is gone, play will get a little more dynamic.  Battleships might advance more once they're no longer subject to a continual rain of shells they can do nothing to counter or escape from.

 

I'm sure some people will say it won't help at all.  I guess we'll find out.

 

All we know for sure is that the way things are set up right now is not working.  Its time to make some changes.

No. My predictions are the bulk of people will revert to putting torpedos everywhere when possible to try and do damage without being spotted. 

 

Complaints will rise about this, and torpedo defense buffs will be implemented, followed swiftly by increased torpedo visibility on skills like Vigilance and a reduction in speed of torpedos. 

 

Then the destroyers will be forced to fire from max range, increasing complaints about battleship dispersion and how RNG based the entire game is from the perspective of one class of players. 

 

WG will relent, decreasing the max firing range of all destroyers, making them vulnerable permanently to everything on the map. 

 

Good thing I have been practicing in German DDs


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I think you're flat out wrong on the enjoyability of high tier play.  But let's see what people think.  Maybe I'm alone in feeling this way.  But I don't think so.

 

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/119386-do-you-enjoy-high-tier-gameplay-as-it-exists-today/

 

 

 

 

 

Did you not read what he wrote? His point was your opinion is not a fact. Everyone's view on this game is subjective, and we are all entitled to our own opinions of what is fun and what isn't.

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If the removal of invisible fire forces me to rely on Torps only in my Kagerou then I don't want to hear the following whine threads from those BBs who can't use WASD


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I think you're flat out wrong on the enjoyability of high tier play.  But let's see what people think.  Maybe I'm alone in feeling this way.  But I don't think so.

 

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/119386-do-you-enjoy-high-tier-gameplay-as-it-exists-today/

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe play more than a handful of games above tier 8 and you'll find it enjoyable, particularly in something that's not a Baltimore.

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If the removal of invisible fire forces me to rely on Torps only in my Kagerou then I don't want to hear the following whine threads from those BBs who can't use WASD

Yep, started already just minutes after my post

No. My predictions are the bulk of people will revert to putting torpedos everywhere when possible to try and do damage without being spotted. 

 

Complaints will rise about this, and torpedo defense buffs will be implemented, followed swiftly by increased torpedo visibility on skills like Vigilance and a reduction in speed of torpedos. 

 

Then the destroyers will be forced to fire from max range, increasing complaints about battleship dispersion and how RNG based the entire game is from the perspective of one class of players. 

 

WG will relent, decreasing the max firing range of all destroyers, making them vulnerable permanently to everything on the map. 

 

Good thing I have been practicing in German DDs

Come on now magic 8 ball, tell me the lottery numbers needed to win next week's $30 million


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Removing the ability to invisi-fire on open water isn't going to change squat. Well, except for maybe a few DDs.

 

Most of the 'invisi-firing' being done at high tier is due to abuse of island cover and LoS mechanics, not from being on open water with a gun range greater than the detection range.


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I know I'll be 110% torpedoboatin in Fletcher and everything else that can in high tiers. Stealth shooting wasn't the problem it was made to be for all the ships that could employ the tactic but it's going bye bye just the same. You know reactions being equal and opposite and all that fun stuff, don't expect this to be the only change that happens due to invisifiring being removed is all. 


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Open water stealth firing isnt the major problem at tier 10, lack of CV players is. Without the threat of a CV strike, BBs can full stop bow in to the enemy. Camp and smoke meta sets in. Also, AA cruisers and AA builds are not needed. DDs have much easier time avoiding detection and the best counter to the current king of tier 10 (Khab) is a CV strike.

 

The reason tier ten is all BB and RU DD is a lack of CVs. 


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The most affected will be IJN DD's.  So except far more torp spam and less gun play.  It will have the opposite effect.  Things will be far more static.


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Invisifire is a separate problem from high-tier camping. It still needed to go however.


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It's just another scapegoat nerf to destroyers at the hands of battleships, when the overabundance of battleships is the problem in all tiers.


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