Standing Case for Re-introducing Kitakami

[IKU19]

A lot has changed since the closed beta.

I do not believe Kitakami would be the team-killing menace it used to be for several reasons.

 

1. Team damage via torpedoes is reduced by a significant amount
2. You turn pink after enough damage, which reflects damage in full, so successive teamkilling would not happen
3. There are several ships that can output almost the same volume of torpedoes as Kitakami, albeit for one broadside. Shiratsuyu, Okhotnik, Shimakaze. - Launching a full salvo of 40 torpedoes with Kitakami while possible is impractical.
4. There are more counters to stealth-oriented ships such as Kitakami since Closed Beta; back when she was around she just had to deal with planes. Now she has to deal with sonar, planes, radar, ten thousand more DDs, royal navy cruisers, RPF, and faster battleships. Her survivability as a result is lowered by a significant amount and it was already extremely low.
5. Kitakami had a high team killing rate because she was sold in an environment where everything would get refunded, there was no consequence to team killing, and she could potentially be sold to new players with zero experience. In other words: putting her as a tier 10 destroyer would've yielded less team kills because the person still had to grind several hundred matches to get to her as opposed to instantly buying her with a few or no matches.

 

In other words, things would be different if she was in the game now, she just wouldn't be capable of performing such feats because of systems put in place to prevent such things.

 

So I propose the following.

 

• Remove her citadel
• Reduce her HP to about 18k
• Increase her speed
• Give her normal torpedo options
• Lower her concealment
• List her as a destroyer
• Do not make her easily obtained, make her a grindy and challenging torpedo-oriented campaign reward, or the T10 destroyer of the alternate Japanese destroyer branch.

Effectively this would make her a fatter Shiratsuyu.

[Cruxdei]

A lot has changed since the closed beta.

I do not believe Kitakami would be the team-killing menace it used to be for several reasons.

 

1. Team damage via torpedoes is reduced by a significant amount
2. You turn pink after enough damage, which reflects damage in full, so successive teamkilling would not happen
3. There are several ships that can output almost the same volume of torpedoes as Kitakami, albeit for one broadside. Shiratsuyu, Okhotnik, Shimakaze. - Launching a full salvo of 40 torpedoes with Kitakami while possible is impractical.
4. There are more counters to stealth-oriented ships such as Kitakami since Closed Beta; back when she was around she just had to deal with planes. Now she has to deal with sonar, planes, radar, ten thousand more DDs, royal navy cruisers, RPF, and faster battleships. Her survivability as a result is lowered by a significant amount and it was already extremely low.
5. Kitakami had a high team killing rate because she was sold in an environment where everything would get refunded, there was no consequence to team killing, and she could potentially be sold to new players with zero experience. In other words: putting her as a tier 10 destroyer would've yielded less team kills because the person still had to grind several hundred matches to get to her as opposed to instantly buying her with a few or no matches.

 

In other words, things would be different if she was in the game now, she just wouldn't be capable of performing such feats because of systems put in place to prevent such things.

 

So I propose the following.

 

• Remove her citadel
• Reduce her HP to about 18k
• Increase her speed
• Give her normal torpedo options
• Lower her concealment
• List her as a destroyer
• Do not make her easily obtained, make her a grindy and challenging torpedo-oriented campaign reward, or the T10 destroyer of the alternate Japanese destroyer branch.

 

Effectively this would make her a fatter Shiratsuyu.

 

sweetheart i know you have a deep love for kitakami and she looks like a nice troll ship but i don't think we will see her anytime soon after the super drama that she brought upon us.

kitakami was a anomaly in real life,40 tubes  slapped in a cruiser is stalin tier of warfare insanity.

[MidnightShamalan]

i have never, nor will i ever, want for a kitakami on either team under any circumstance.

[m373x]

• Remove her citadel
• Reduce her HP to about 18k
• Increase her speed
• Give her normal torpedo options
• Lower her concealment
• List her as a destroyer
• Do not make her easily obtained, make her a grindy and challenging torpedo-oriented campaign reward, or the T10 destroyer of the alternate Japanese destroyer branch.

You are basically proposing a brand new ship, yes?

[Sentaka]

It does seem the points you raise are very apt. The game is most different these days with a lot of new mechanics and nuances.

 

It's very well understood the overlap and confusing distrinction between vessels classed by their navies as destroyers and those as light cruisers; for an extreme example, the Capitani Romani cruisers. I suppose another option is to split scout cruiser citadels (so eg. Arethusa, Omaha, Agano, Nagara, etc) at the waterline, as Katori has her citadel split. I've long been in favor of revmoving the difference between cruisers with 6 inch guns and destroyers, starting with removing the name 'destroyer' in the 'destroyer tree', and taking Minsk's lead from WoT in mixing classes with lines. Increasing the speed to 33 or so would mitigate some of the issues, especially as we all know of 32 knot Royal Navy later-war destroyer types, or even the 34 knots of (some?) Gearings in the 1950s.Considering tonnage, the Project 40 (not the Grozovoi, but an earlier somewhat related project) was stated at 4050t and the Project 24 (the Khab) was stated at 3400t, fudging a ship down from the 5000-6000t class down in health shouldn't be a big deal.

 

Actually, if one looks at the Kitakami, it really does make sense as a destroyer; she has a broadside of 3 player controlled 140mm guns, and 20 torpedoes of 610mm. Shimakaze has a broadside of 6 player controlled 127mm guns, and 15 torpedoes of 610mm. Seems like the perfect IJN torpedo platform without a real usuable gun option. The B-13's HE is 33.4kg (the RN 5.25" is similar to this in) and the 14cm/50's HE is 38kg (a more reasonable 23kg for the IJN 12.7cm/50) and the rate of fire is a similar about 10 rounds in best case for both the IJN 12.7cm/50 and 14cm/50 light cruiser gun mentioned so it really doesn't seem that unreasonable to class them in the same tree. Furthermore on Destroyers, a Farragut (the 1958 one) without missiles, or the US Destroyer Leaders Norfolk and Mitscher are in the 150 meter - ish length class and both fit in damage, dynamics and era terms for the game, which I think supports adding Kitakami and things like the proposed rebuilds for the Tenryus (per Lacroix) and the Isuzu with her AA refit as destroyers.

[IKU19]

You are basically proposing a brand new ship, yes?

 

Well, no. The hull would be the same and the torpedo loadout would be the same. The torpedo that is being fired would be different.

 

"Normal" torpedo options = 8/10/12km torpedoes.

[SireneRacker]

Only when she is really really really hard to obtain. I am speaking of the level that the first set of ARP ships had, multiplicated by four. This ship in a troll's hand is not acceptable.

[1nc0mp3t3nt_1]

Only when she is really really really hard to obtain. I am speaking of the level that the first set of ARP ships had, multiplicated by four. This ship in a troll's hand is not acceptable.

 

those weren't hard: just frustrating

[Calphayus]

unfortunately it wont happen. WG is pretty firm and i believe has been made very clear that they wont bring it back fully. i was just talking to some friends last night about it wishing it would come back but i just dont see it as an option that will happen. least not anytime soon.

[Cruxdei]

unfortunately it wont happen. WG is pretty firm and i believe has been made very clear that they wont bring it back fully. i was just talking to some friends last night about it wishing it would come back but i just dont see it as an option that will happen. least not anytime soon.

 

why i get the feeling that WG is one of the few companies that enforce a lot the NDa,it's like they are hiding missile codes.

[syraku]

Mention Kitakami and the word "teamkilling" gets thrown around instantly.

 

 

Seriously, people. If there really was a problem with teamkilling with torpedoes now, we'd have seen it when Shiratsuyu was released. Was there any crying? Not at all. You don't need Kitakami to TK and ruin games, Shimakaze and Shiratsuyu or really any goddamn DD with a crapton of torpedoes could do it. I don't see the difference. If teamkilling is such a problem, we'd have seen lots of it by now. We know that giving people ships that are able to spit out a lot of torpedoes won't magically cause uncontrolled amounts of teamkilling in recent versions of WoWs, Shiratsuyu is the prime example of that.

[1nc0mp3t3nt_1]

Mention Kitakami and the work "teamkilling" gets thrown around instantly.

 

 

Seriously, people. If there really was a problem with teamkilling with torpedoes now, we'd have seen it when Shiratsuyu was released. Was there any crying? Not at all. You don't need Kitakami to TK and ruin games, Shimakaze and Shiratsuyu or really any goddamn DD with a crapton of torpedoes could do it. I don't see the difference. If teamkilling is such a problem, we'd have seen lots of it by now. We know that giving people ships that are able to spit out a lot of torpedoes won't magically cause uncontrolled amounts of teamkilling in recent versions of WoWs, Shiratsuyu is the prime example of that.

 

[Skarp_AGW]

unfortunately it wont happen. WG is pretty firm and i believe has been made very clear that they wont bring it back fully. i was just talking to some friends last night about it wishing it would come back but i just dont see it as an option that will happen. least not anytime soon.

Fortunately it wont happen. WG is pretty firm and i believe has been made very clear that they wont bring it back fully. i was just talking to some friends last night about hoping it would not come back. I just don't see it as an option that will happen. At least not anytime soon.

[twitch133]

How about renaming this ship... "The ship that must not be named"

 

Giving one ship the same torpedo power as 4 Fletcher's??? Regardless of how weak, low health and paper thing it is? Not no, but hell no.

[1nc0mp3t3nt_1]

Fortunately it wont happen. WG is pretty firm and i believe has been made very clear that they wont bring it back fully. i was just talking to some friends last night about hoping it would not come back. I just don't see it as an option that will happen. At least not anytime soon.

 

do you know how much money they would make if they snuck it back in and jacked up the price like Tanks and the Pz.II J

[Show_Me_Your_Cits]

 

why i get the feeling that WG is one of the few companies that enforce a lot the NDa,it's like they are hiding missile codes.

 

The NDAs are there to reduce the amount of drama in the community. See: Alabamagate. 

[Skarp_AGW]

Imagine a 3 Kitikami division.

 

They sail out together; launch a coordinated 60 torpedo wall of skill; flip over and launch another 60... 120 torpedoes in the water at once... really? Anyone wants this? Really?

[Dolomaticus]

A lot has changed since the closed beta.

I do not believe Kitakami would be the team-killing menace it used to be for several reasons.

 

1. Team damage via torpedoes is reduced by a significant amount
2. You turn pink after enough damage, which reflects damage in full, so successive teamkilling would not happen
3. There are several ships that can output almost the same volume of torpedoes as Kitakami, albeit for one broadside. Shiratsuyu, Okhotnik, Shimakaze. - Launching a full salvo of 40 torpedoes with Kitakami while possible is impractical.
4. There are more counters to stealth-oriented ships such as Kitakami since Closed Beta; back when she was around she just had to deal with planes. Now she has to deal with sonar, planes, radar, ten thousand more DDs, royal navy cruisers, RPF, and faster battleships. Her survivability as a result is lowered by a significant amount and it was already extremely low.
5. Kitakami had a high team killing rate because she was sold in an environment where everything would get refunded, there was no consequence to team killing, and she could potentially be sold to new players with zero experience. In other words: putting her as a tier 10 destroyer would've yielded less team kills because the person still had to grind several hundred matches to get to her as opposed to instantly buying her with a few or no matches.

 

In other words, things would be different if she was in the game now, she just wouldn't be capable of performing such feats because of systems put in place to prevent such things.

 

So I propose the following.

 

• Remove her citadel
• Reduce her HP to about 18k
• Increase her speed
• Give her normal torpedo options
• Lower her concealment
• List her as a destroyer
• Do not make her easily obtained, make her a grindy and challenging torpedo-oriented campaign reward, or the T10 destroyer of the alternate Japanese destroyer branch.

 

Effectively this would make her a fatter Shiratsuyu.

 

it was a bad ship, a VERY bad ship for one very big reason: Its spotted range was JUST outside of its Torp range. Every time the Kitakami was spotted, it got nuked from orbit by everybody who could kill it, and even when it got a smokescreen, it still got nuked.

 

Think about how BAD this ship was: It was a Doubloon ship.....Which means they wanted you to spend money to get it.......and its raw numbers were so bad that they pulled it. This is even before we get into the TKing and trolling. No, let the ship just rust and die. It's not worth the headache it would cause to let it back in to the game (this is what I would be bluntly saying if I worked at WG, cause in the end they are the ones who listen to the complaints not you.).

 

I forgot about it will be spotted by DD's way before it gets close to the enemy, unless you literally camp at the back of the map waiting for the enemy DD's to be killed first so you won't be spotted, which would lead to said Nuking from Orbit that comes next.

[SireneRacker]

How about renaming this ship... "The ship that must not be named"

 

Giving one ship the same torpedo power as 4 Fletcher's??? Regardless of how weak, low health and paper thing it is? Not no, but hell no.

 

Considering that her maneuverability is half of a Fletcher, her artillery is half of a Fletcher and the spotting range is twice of a Fletcher, the Kitakami would be a similar case to Graf Spee: Everything or nothing.

[MasaruKondera]

 

it was a bad ship, a VERY bad ship for one very big reason: Its spotted range was JUST outside of its Torp range. Every time the Kitakami was spotted, it got nuked from orbit by everybody who could kill it, and even when it got a smokescreen, it still got nuked.

 

Think about how BAD this ship was: It was a Doubloon ship.....Which means they wanted you to spend money to get it.......and its raw numbers were so bad that they pulled it. This is even before we get into the TKing and trolling. No, let the ship just rust and die. It's not worth the headache it would cause to let it back in to the game (this is what I would be bluntly saying if I worked at WG, cause in the end they are the ones who listen to the complaints not you.).

 

In other words:

 

No one should be able to play the ship because it isn't OP enough for you...

 

[Dolomaticus]

 

In other words:

 

No one should be able to play the ship because it isn't OP enough for you...

 

 

No in MY words, the ship sucked... Go look at my profile, excluding a few recent ships I didn't get on first pass, I have most of the premium ships that was put out. I played in Beta and that ship rarely got off its torps before it was wiped from the face of the map. I was NEVER interested in that ship for the sheer fact every time I saw it......well not for long cause my team would just destroy it, no ifs ands or buts.

[Admiral_Franz_von_Hipper]

 

it was a bad ship, a VERY bad ship for one very big reason: Its spotted range was JUST outside of its Torp range. Every time the Kitakami was spotted, it got nuked from orbit by everybody who could kill it, and even when it got a smokescreen, it still got nuked.

 

Think about how BAD this ship was: It was a Doubloon ship.....Which means they wanted you to spend money to get it.......and its raw numbers were so bad that they pulled it. This is even before we get into the TKing and trolling. No, let the ship just rust and die. It's not worth the headache it would cause to let it back in to the game (this is what I would be bluntly saying if I worked at WG, cause in the end they are the ones who listen to the complaints not you.).

 

I forgot about it will be spotted by DD's way before it gets close to the enemy, unless you literally camp at the back of the map waiting for the enemy DD's to be killed first so you won't be spotted, which would lead to said Nuking from Orbit that comes next.

 

Did you even read the OP? All of his points fix all of the problems you list.

[Dolomaticus]

 

Did you even read the OP? All of his points fix all of the problems you list.

 

Nope not worth it in the slightest, and yes I read it and all you would get is a bigger firestorm than before. Till someone at WG decides to let it happen, it wont and long as the majority of the community say NO, it wont happen. 

 

Here think about this: they listen to their Russian playerbase cause its the biggest out of all the servers.....Guess what, if they are not clamoring for that damn piece of junk, we sure as heck have even a slimmer chance of seeing it.

[TheStarSlayer]

Mention Kitakami and the work "teamkilling" gets thrown around instantly.

 

 

Seriously, people. If there really was a problem with teamkilling with torpedoes now, we'd have seen it when Shiratsuyu was released. Was there any crying? Not at all. You don't need Kitakami to TK and ruin games, Shimakaze and Shiratsuyu or really any goddamn DD with a crapton of torpedoes could do it. I don't see the difference. If teamkilling is such a problem, we'd have seen lots of it by now. We know that giving people ships that are able to spit out a lot of torpedoes won't magically cause uncontrolled amounts of teamkilling in recent versions of WoWs, Shiratsuyu is the prime example of that.

 

The volume of fire meant that it was thorough when it botched a launch, but it was not a major contributor at to why this tub was a TK Queen.  The primary factor was the platform itself.  Kita is literally a Tier IV CL with most of its armament stripped out in favor of ten torpedo launchers, at tier VIII.  It quite simply lacked the durability, concealment, gunpower and maneuverability to fight in the van.   In order to survive they typically had to play from max range, which meant behind friendly screening elements.  Any time you launch fish from behind friendlies it's a recipe for disaster and because of this ship's myriad of limitations that was pretty much the only meal it could cook.  That was why this thing was always a nightmare to have on you team, not because it had forty tubes.  You always had to be cognizant that if one of these was behind you they were likely going to launch up your tailpipe.  The operational limitations of the Kita that I outlined mean that even if they gave it 15k fish so it could conceal fire it would simply exacerbate the issue.  It couldn't fight from a position to safely launch fish then and it sure as heck can't in the current meta

[IKU19]

 

it was a bad ship, a VERY bad ship for one very big reason: Its spotted range was JUST outside of its Torp range. Every time the Kitakami was spotted, it got nuked from orbit by everybody who could kill it, and even when it got a smokescreen, it still got nuked.

 

Think about how BAD this ship was: It was a Doubloon ship.....Which means they wanted you to spend money to get it.......and its raw numbers were so bad that they pulled it. This is even before we get into the TKing and trolling. No, let the ship just rust and die. It's not worth the headache it would cause to let it back in to the game (this is what I would be bluntly saying if I worked at WG, cause in the end they are the ones who listen to the complaints not you.).

 

I forgot about it will be spotted by DD's way before it gets close to the enemy, unless you literally camp at the back of the map waiting for the enemy DD's to be killed first so you won't be spotted, which would lead to said Nuking from Orbit that comes next.

 

Unlike: Altanta, Krasny Krim, Mikasa, Takao, Koenig Albert, Albany, Emben, Aurora/Diana, Ishizuchi, Marblehead, Mutsu, Shinonome, Yuubari, Prinz Eugen

 

Bad/sub-par/average premium ships exist, they don't have to be good. Part of the flair of Kitakami is how hard she's to play.

 

Being good in an OP ship isn't hard, it's crapeasy. It means nothing. Being good in a ship that's bad feels way better.

 

 

The NDAs are there to reduce the amount of drama in the community. See: Alabamagate. 

 

NDAs exist because not everything makes it through and potentially can be held for future updates, as such it's considered a trade secret, leaking this would expose unfinished content to competitors which may or may not implement it in their game first.