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Upcoming changes to CVs.

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It has been announced that T4-5 CVs will lose the ability to manual drop. Whether you agree with it or not, new players will only start learning manual drops at T6, where monsters like Cleveland start cropping up.

 

I propose that CVs of tiers 4 and 5 keep their manual drops.... in Co-Op!

 

This allows players to get good with manual drops well before T6 and allows veteran players to still have fun with their low tier CVs, even though it's only with bots. That's the other bonus to this; bots don't mind being sealclubbed.

 

What do you guys think?

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If WG would put in something to explain to the player that for those tiers it is restricted to co-op. We wouldn't want to have them thinking you can only ever manual drop in co-op

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It has been announced that T4-5 CVs will lose the ability to manual drop. Whether you agree with it or not, new players will only start learning manual drops at T6, where monsters like Cleveland start cropping up.

 

I propose that CVs of tiers 4 and 5 keep their manual drops.... in Co-Op!

 

This allows players to get good with manual drops well before T6 and allows veteran players to still have fun with their low tier CVs, even though it's only with bots. That's the other bonus to this; bots don't mind being sealclubbed.

 

What do you guys think?

 

Drops on dumb NPCs aren't the same as doing them on players.  I mean, NPCs don't even try to avoid regular torpedo attacks and just sail straight and dumb.  This does nothing at all for prepping players for when it matters most.

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I think that instead of making stupid changes that hurt all T4-5 CV players just so the unicum seal-clubbers can be brought into check, WG should try to actually fix the problem (if there even IS a problem, because personally I don't see why seal-clubbing in CVs is any different from seal-clubbing in other ships). What they're doing right now is breaking everything with a sledge-hammer when a fine brush is needed to deal with this obviously complicated and delicate issue of making CVs more fun to play and to play against. We see this kind of nonsense happening way too often. Instead of dealing with balance problems (which sometimes don't even exist) case by case, they apply a blanket buff or blanket nerf, like we have seen with the IJN DDs and Russian HE shell buffs in the more recent patches, and what we will see with stealth-fire changes in the future. 

WG's "solution" is messy, because it is not clear why manual drops are OK for T6-10 while they are not for T4-5, and it also leaves us non-unicum/seal-clubber CV players wondering why we should have to be penalized just because an extremely small minority are overperforming, which *shockingly* also happens in non-CVs. I'm sure WG could come up with a better solution (heck, the "average Joe" player could probably do better than this) *if* they actually tried thinking a bit more broadly, but no, that can't happen because that would be logical. 

Edited by Aduial

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I've never played CV's, but even I think the planned changes are wrong. The only reason I can think of to remove manual drops from early tiers is so that ships in tiers 3-5 with very low AA values have a better chance of avoiding being deleted, especially by a seal clubber. On the other side, that means players aren't learning a critical skill needed to succeed in higher tier CV play and it represents an overall nerf to a class that I genuinely miss. What else am I supposed to do with my AA build captains?

 

Has WG provided official insight as to their reasoning for this change?

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It has been announced that T4-5 CVs will lose the ability to manual drop. Whether you agree with it or not, new players will only start learning manual drops at T6, where monsters like Cleveland start cropping up.

 

I propose that CVs of tiers 4 and 5 keep their manual drops.... in Co-Op!

 

This allows players to get good with manual drops well before T6 and allows veteran players to still have fun with their low tier CVs, even though it's only with bots. That's the other bonus to this; bots don't mind being sealclubbed.

 

What do you guys think?

 

Last week I just got my 1st CV - Langley so I am still learning manual drop so I am been doing Co-Op. So I like your idea but I am not sure if WG will do it, wish they would.

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This is going to make those low tier grinds so much harder for CV"s which get shafted on credits and xp anyway. If this get's implemented I'm really glad I've gotten past that [edited]. 

Granted I've been called a seal clubber the entire way up.. but since WG doesn't give a "veteran" option where you can start a grind at t6 or 7 instead of at t1.... meh. 

 

 

*** Edit***

 

Maybe limit this to "Elite" status ships? To distinguish people that are seal clubbing and those that are just grinding? I dunno

Edited by Ajax1170
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Please

fix the mini map rotation issue so we do not have to play upside down.

please allow us to choose our own load out on T7-T10 but not premiums.

please allow fighters to "spot" by assigning them to a ship


 

and above all join my contest for 6000 gold

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/118037-contest-for-6000-gold-and-support-the-uso/page__st__20__p__2865754#entry2865754

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Has WG provided official insight as to their reasoning for this change?

 

The only "reasoning" I've heard is that apparently seal-clubbing is too common. Of course, they just conveniently ignore the fact that seal-clubbing is just as common in other ship types as well, and it's not only the seal-clubbers or unicums that use manual drops. 

Edited by Aduial

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This I find very humorous with all of the other problems of balance in the game.

Personally, a couple of weeks ago, I got the Langley, and sho' again to try and relearn CV's.  Since I got up to the Ranger when the game went live and quite playing them, because they sucked badly at higher T's.  As well as the fact I didn't want to go into a T7 match and look like a noob.   Co-op doesn't really help,  The AI doesn't react like people do,  and is way to easy to get any sort of feel for manually dropping.

If they are going to do that, just take out manual drops for them all.  lol

 

Just leave it the hell alone, or make it where if the the MM takes into account Elite ships and puts them together as a priority or by player stats.  Pretty easy coding for the Elite, more in depth for the Stats.

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Well as a Seal/Newbie/New Player I think this is a very silly change. Speaking for myself I do not random battles a lot let because I know I am a seal and I am going to get my stern handed to me in most random battles. I am sure that there are much more serious things in the game that need handled than CVs and seal clubbing.

I have seen a lot of game make this same mistake - make the game easier for small part of the game population - then you will start to lose the more veteran players and then the game loses much of the "heart" of the game.  

And then the new players "sit around" in chat complaining how boring the game is.

Edited by Kenneth_Armstrong

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The only "reasoning" I've heard is that apparently seal-clubbing is too common. Of course, they just conveniently ignore the fact that seal-clubbing is just as common in other ship type as well, and it's not only the seal-clubbers or unicums that use manual drops. 

 

Exactly.  There is no difference in clubbing with a Clemson or Isokaze than a Langley or Hosho.

 

So now, newer CV players will have to start learning manual drops at T6, while potentially facing monster-AA T8 ships in the process :facepalm:

 

The "sledgehammer" fix (as you called it), reminds me of the knee-jerk type of change that was implemented with the T4 preferential matchmaking that screwed T5's and T6's into always being uptiered.

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The other problem is people playing against tier 6 CVs for the first time will be caught completley off guard by the accuracy. Then we will just get more "tier 6 CVs are OP" threads. :facepalm:

 

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The only "reasoning" I've heard is that apparently seal-clubbing is too common. Of course, they just conveniently ignore the fact that seal-clubbing is just as common in other ship type as well, and it's not only the seal-clubbers or unicums that use manual drops. 

 

Just another admission by WG that CVs ruin games. Probably lots of complaints from new players who notice CVs seal clubbing (very obvious to a newbie, whereas a veteran in a low tier ship is not so obvious) and feel frustrated by it and left the game. WG's stats would show that pretty well, and they send around surveys too.

 

 

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Manual drops need to stay.

Low tier AA needs to be buffed.

Strafing needs to be nerfed or deleted. It is stupid that a Langley fighter squadron can destroy the other carriers entire wing on one sortie.

Carrier skippers should be allowed to allocate their air wing as they see fit. This would allow more strategy as you would see increased air battles to start the match and less bombers in the air. You would still keep national flavor with IJN getting more squadrons and less planes than the USN. IJN fighters would be faster tier to tier. USN fighters are tougher tier to tier. IJN TB's are faster and more plentiful. USN DB's are tougher and more frequent.

Increase incentive for plane kills all across the platform.

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Just another admission by WG that CVs ruin games. Probably lots of complaints from new players who notice CVs seal clubbing (very obvious to a newbie, whereas a veteran in a low tier ship is not so obvious) and feel frustrated by it and left the game. WG's stats would show that pretty well, and they send around surveys too.

 

 

 

OK, then fix CVs, instead of making some lame excuse about "oh but the seal-clubbers". This is just an attempt by WG to take the easy way out rather than getting to the bottom of the problem and finding a real solution. If WG thinks CVs are broken enough to cause people to stop playing, they should fix them and make them more fun to play and play against, instead of punishing lower tier CVs with an unjustified and unfair nerf. 
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Low tier AA needs to be buffed.

 

I think the lower tier CVs would need a hangar capacity buff then. They already run out of planes very easily. The combination of the two changes would allow ships to take less damage from each single strike (because more planes would be shot down) while not leaving CVs completely useless because they've run out of planes. 
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Manual drops need to stay.

Low tier AA needs to be buffed.

Strafing needs to be nerfed or deleted. It is stupid that a Langley fighter squadron can destroy the other carriers entire wing on one sortie.

Carrier skippers should be allowed to allocate their air wing as they see fit. This would allow more strategy as you would see increased air battles to start the match and less bombers in the air. You would still keep national flavor with IJN getting more squadrons and less planes than the USN. IJN fighters would be faster tier to tier. USN fighters are tougher tier to tier. IJN TB's are faster and more plentiful. USN DB's are tougher and more frequent.

Increase incentive for plane kills all across the platform.

 

Could you accomplish this in the first 100 days? :D No seriosuly you should run on this.

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I think that instead of making stupid changes that hurt all T4-5 CV players just so the unicum seal-clubbers can be brought into check, WG should try to actually fix the problem (if there even IS a problem, because personally I don't see why seal-clubbing in CVs is any different from seal-clubbing in other ships). What they're doing right now is breaking everything with a sledge-hammer when a fine brush is needed to deal with this obviously complicated and delicate issue of making CVs more fun to play and to play against. We see this kind of nonsense happening way too often. Instead of dealing with balance problems (which sometimes don't even exist) case by case, they apply a blanket buff or blanket nerf, like we have seen with the IJN DDs and Russian HE shell buffs in the more recent patches, and what we will see with stealth-fire changes in the future. 

WG's "solution" is messy, because it is not clear why manual drops are OK for T6-10 while they are not for T4-5, and it also leaves us non-unicum/seal-clubber CV players wondering why we should have to be penalized just because an extremely small minority are overperforming, which *shockingly* also happens in non-CVs. I'm sure WG could come up with a better solution (heck, the "average Joe" player could probably do better than this) *if* they actually tried thinking a bit more broadly, but no, that can't happen because that would be logical. 

We all have some mistrust in what WG's does and tells us.  WG has long track record that they don't about seal clubbing, so I'm willing to believe them that it is a problem for CVs.  CVs are so broken that WG can't begin to fix the balancing until there is a steady supply of CV players.  Once we have them in the majority of matches WG can assess the data and try to fix gameplay with balancing.  The problem is will be a long and painful road ahead for both CVs and surface ships. 

 

To recap, 

Step one: Stop experienced CV players from seal clubbing chasing away all the new CV players.

Step two: Keep the new and old players playing CVs with improved UI/controls.  I think we'll see a lot of other incentives to get more people playing CVs.

Step three: We all suffer as WG tries to fix CV balancing once we have CVs in every match.    

 

  

 

 

 

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how about  having an opt out of CV matches . Survey seem to say that  majority of   people seemed to  say they don't mind CVs, so if there is opt out option,  you can leave it as is.  .    it would also show CV  to be an issue if majority opt out.  I would also allow upto 4 CV per side on those matches.   Opt in players can act as AA ships.  this would be more historical  style of CV battle:trollface:   wouldn't that be fun ?

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These just seem like temporary and perhaps ill conceived band aid fixes until they do the complete CV rework later this year.

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how about  having an opt out of CV matches . Survey seem to say that  majority of   people seemed to  say they don't mind CVs, so if there is opt out option,  you can leave it as is.  .    it would also show CV  to be an issue if majority opt out.  I would also allow upto 4 CV per side on those matches.   Opt in players can act as AA ships.  this would be more historical  style of CV battle:trollface:   wouldn't that be fun ?

So long as we can opt out of any class of ship we don't care for then I am in favor of this.  I too will enjoy spending 30 minutes in the que with you.

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