Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Carrier_Junyo

AS CVs....why

47 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Members
738 posts
6,483 battles

d35b7948e0.png

 40090818bb.png

 

33 planes shot down in Strike Taiho, vs 12 planes shot down of an Air Superiority Essex. 

All i did that game, is literally no damage for the first 15 min. I just hovered my planes over my fleet for all that time. Enemy team was in a AA bubble so I couldnt do anything. And people say that CV's are OP lol. And for any lone ships, AS CV stopped me. 

Why do you keep doing it people? AS CVs never win games, and all they do is make the enemy CV life miserable. Wanna shoot down 500 planes for some event? Jump in a DM or Yubari. Or better, jump in a strike CV and shoot down planes with skill, rather than an unfair advantage. But for pete's sake stop playing fighter setup CVs....it's broken, it frustratest people like me beyond measure, makes us want to quit life and the game forever, actually lose 10 strands of hair for each plane lost. 

 

Please, quit. It will help your Win-loss-ratio. It will make you a better CV too. You can still shoot planes, but you can also win games for a change. 

 

And Wargaming, just get rid of the damn fighter setup. 

 

[/RANT]

 

 

 

Edited by Carrier_Junyo
  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
11,026 posts
30,489 battles

But... but... AS meta will save CVs.

 

Or something.

 

Edit: Oh! Oh! I got a good one:

 

AS CVs: When your cancer has cancer.

Edited by issm
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
872
[BOTES]
Members
2,228 posts
8,498 battles

People play AS because they know they're bad. They give up strafing and hope to click you to death, but the worse player will lose regardless of the setup they play. I love when enemy CVs play AS. Free win unless your team is trash and even then you can carry late into the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,848
[NMKJT]
Beta Testers
24,800 posts
3,895 battles

But... but... AS meta will save CVs.

 

Or something.

 

Edit: Oh! Oh! I got a good one:

 

AS CVs: When your cancer has cancer.

 

How constructive of you.

 

The dumb thing is Air Superiority loadouts do exactly what you want to carriers-- they heavily restrict the carrier's damage potential and more or less restricts them only to vision and scouting. I'd think you would be all over removal of strike and having only air superiority loadouts on carriers since you're always whining about their damage being too high for their scouting power.

Edited by Destroyer_Kiyoshimo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
303 posts
8,267 battles

Or better, jump in a strike CV and shoot down planes with skill, rather than an unfair advantage.

 

LOL, crying about "unfair advantage" :teethhappy: You can use AS setup which is even more efficient (thanks to Air Supremacy) than that of USN CVs if you find this to be such an "unfair advantage".

 

CVs know they will always be matched against another CV so going AS is a perfectly legitimate setup which denies enemy CV their share of damage. And in case of noobish strike Rangers and Lexingtons and whatnot it makes up for a great turkey shoot ... payback for OP Langley, Bogue and Saipan:trollface:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
11,026 posts
30,489 battles

How constructive of you.

 

The dumb thing is Air Superiority loadouts do exactly what you want to carriers-- they heavily restrict the carrier's damage potential and more or less restricts them only to vision and scouting. I'd think you would be all over removal of strike and having only air superiority loadouts on carriers since you're always whining about their damage being too high for their scouting power.

 

Perhaps you missed the memo that I want CVs to be both FUN TO PLAY as well as fun to play against?

 

While I'd be fine shifting the CV game to an AS meta to drive down CV numbers, I'd rather the class be reworked so it was more enjoyable for all parties involved. Since, you know, AS is rather irritating to play against.

 

The proper way to reduce CV utility is to alter the mechanics so that utility is no longer a core part of their gameplay. Not to have another class who's sole purpose is to make CV play hell.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,848
[NMKJT]
Beta Testers
24,800 posts
3,895 battles

 

Perhaps you missed the memo that I want CVs to be both FUN TO PLAY as well as fun to play against?

 

While I'd be fine shifting the CV game to an AS meta to drive down CV numbers, I'd rather the class be reworked so it was more enjoyable for all parties involved. Since, you know, AS is rather irritating to play against.

 

The proper way to reduce CV utility is to alter the mechanics so that utility is no longer a core part of their gameplay. Not to have another class who's sole purpose is to make CV play hell.

 

Yeah given all you've said that seems geared towards making carriers the most painful and unrewarding aspect of this game, consider me skeptical about your sincerity of wanting a rework to make them fun to play and play against. You must realize how many times you've straight up said it's impossible to do this in a way that satisfies everyone, no matter how you rework them.
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
272 posts
5,408 battles

Well for casual CV players, it's reasonable that they don't want their plane shot down. It's frustrating to lose air control therefore they opt for an easier method of obtaining it. I felt the same way when I first played CVs (starting with IJN) as an inexperienced captain. As much as I dislike playing against AS, it is a configuration and I don't take it out on the player personally.

 

I have high WRs in Ryuujou and Hiryuu, both of which I played AS entirely through the grind - granted IJN AS is actually feasible (relative to USN AS). There may just be something to this "team player" CV... haha.

Edited by Shoukaku_Kai_Ni

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,654
[CALM]
Beta Testers
6,831 posts
5,183 battles

Air Superiority is there exactly as a kind of hard counter against non-AS build CVs of the same Tier (except Saipan unless one is really good with Strafing).

 

And frankly, I actually do enjoy having an Air Superiority CV or two on my team; not only are they able to last the whole match, they're able to shut down most non-AS CVs, shut down enemy scout/fighter planes, and keep most of the enemy team lit for the rest of the game, including their torpedoes.

 

All that's needed to make them better is further buffing the AA reward and scouting assist reward so that AS CVs can be even better as a team support class (side-benefit of also buffing DD earnings off scouting roles and buffing team-play for those that still bother escorting teammates for AA).

 

On an aside, the rage tears are delicious.  Looking forward to relearning CVs via AS builds once the first part of the CV overhaul hits (control and removal of manual drops at low tiers).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
311 posts
39 battles

AS is a bad meme anyways, I did just fine (and by just fine I mean 65-70% winrate) using the 0 fighter loadouts when those were still a thing for the Japanese.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
766
[SPTR]
Members
20,154 posts
6,159 battles

d35b7948e0.png

 40090818bb.png

 

33 planes shot down in Strike Taiho, vs 12 planes shot down of an Air Superiority Essex. 

All i did that game, is literally no damage for the first 15 min. I just hovered my planes over my fleet for all that time. Enemy team was in a AA bubble so I couldnt do anything. And people say that CV's are OP lol. And for any lone ships, AS CV stopped me. 

 

Why do you keep doing it people? AS CVs never win games, and all they do is make the enemy CV life miserable. Wanna shoot down 500 planes for some event? Jump in a DM or Yubari. Or better, jump in a strike CV and shoot down planes with skill, rather than an unfair advantage. But for pete's sake stop playing fighter setup CVs....it's broken, it frustratest people like me beyond measure, makes us want to quit life and the game forever, actually lose 10 strands of hair for each plane lost. 

 

Please, quit. It will help your Win-loss-ratio. It will make you a better CV too. You can still shoot planes, but you can also win games for a change. 

 

And Wargaming, just get rid of the damn fighter setup. 

 

[/RANT]

 

 

 

"Jump in a strike CV and shoot down planes with skill".

*Looks at the US CV Strike loadouts*

*Reads this*

... Welp.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11,245
[WOLF3]
Members
28,272 posts
24,681 battles

IJN CVs can play strike and air superiority regardless of spec, unlike USN CVs.

 

Air Superiority I dislike seeing on my team, most especially the lowest of the low, USN Air Superiority.

 

USN AS CVs give up so much attack power that they become irrelevant to the surface fight.  This is cool and all if you can trust your team to make complete use of the air superiority you provided but I have found in CV play that is often not true.  The firepower of the CV is going to be needed more than enough, sometimes in very dire need

 

When I experimented with AS on Ryujo, Independence, Ranger, it was miserable.  I had good plane kill averages but everything else was awful.  Most especially so in WR%.  AS Ryujo in particular, I trolled CVs and USN CVs complained bitterly what they were supposed to do against RJ's 3 fighter units.  Yet what happened often was though I establish air superiority, my team folded.  I can watch them fold but had very poor attack power to stop the bleeding or turn it around myself.  What exactly is the AS CV going to do against that battering ram of 3 BBs pushing with escorts?  Nothing.  Not a d*mn thing.  Meanwhile, a Strike CV can mass the bombers to go after them, the AS CV cannot do the same for a mass strike.  It can just send planes to fly around, doing nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,363
[HYD]
Members
7,105 posts
5,289 battles

I suspect that people who play AS loadouts are sadists. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,214
[-K-]
SuperTest Coordinator, WoWS Community Contributors
5,969 posts
22,155 battles

I always laugh when I see AS CVs with my strike Lexington.  Even better was a balanced Lex I saw one game.  All I had to do was split my bombers.  I even taunted the enemy CV in all chat - "You only have enough fighters to stop one of my attacks.  Choose wisely, grasshopper."  When he chose my two bomber squadrons and I torpedoed an enemy battleship...  

 

e57.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,065
[GWG]
Members
7,226 posts
14,040 battles

That's why I do it in CO-OP.

I guess some operators avoid Co-Op since they might actually be facing an adversary that is not a Potato.

So I tried my AS Ranger, Hiryu, Independence, Ryujo, and Bogue on one Co-Op mission each -- and got my 150 plane kills.  That's 5 games.

Win every time, Hiryu and Ryujo got serious damage numbers.

...

I think the original poster is dead wrong about the Essex and the AS mode.  The Essex failed because it was facing a TIAHO.  Had the CV selections been reversed, your adversary would be wiping the floor with you.

In Co-Op, one will never face the disparity differences between US and IJN carriers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
8,843 posts
7,637 battles

A good strike loadout can distract or swarm the fighters if they are spread out, but even a halfway decent one is annoying to play against.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,451 posts
10,822 battles

I, for one, love it when CV players get a taste of being shut down and being unable to counter another player.

 

  • The same feeling DD players get when they are cross-dropped by CVs
  • The same feeling BB players get when they get dropped on in such a way that they can't possibly dodge
  • The same feeling CA/CL players get when they get caught out after DF is on cool-down and one-shot by a CV

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
8,843 posts
7,637 battles

I, for one, love it when CV players get a taste of being shut down and being unable to counter another player.

  • The same feeling DD players get when they are cross-dropped by CVs
  • The same feeling BB players get when they get dropped on in such a way that they can't possibly dodge
  • The same feeling CA/CL players get when they get caught out after when DF is down and one-shot by a CV

 

that last one... moskva cries every time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,363
[HYD]
Members
7,105 posts
5,289 battles

I, for one, love it when CV players get a taste of being shut down and being unable to counter another player.

 

  • The same feeling DD players get when they are cross-dropped by CVs
  • The same feeling BB players get when they get dropped on in such a way that they can't possibly dodge
  • The same feeling CA/CL players get when they get caught out after DF is on cool-down and one-shot by a CV

 

 

I think you may have missed the second part of his post where he pointed out playing AS not only makes the other CV's games miserable, but also makes you a detriment to your team. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,451 posts
10,822 battles

I think you may have missed the second part of his post where he pointed out playing AS not only makes the other CV's games miserable, but also makes you a detriment to your team. 

 

Nope, I saw it. I still take satisfaction in watching CVs frustrated, regardless. 

 

They are a necessary part of the game, I don't deny that. They served a function historically and they also serve a function in WoWs.

However, I still like watching them get flustered for the reasons listed in my last post:trollface:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
786
[TOG]
Members
4,213 posts
25,120 battles

That's why I do it in CO-OP.

I guess some operators avoid Co-Op since they might actually be facing an adversary that is not a Potato.

So I tried my AS Ranger, Hiryu, Independence, Ryujo, and Bogue on one Co-Op mission each -- and got my 150 plane kills.  That's 5 games.

Win every time, Hiryu and Ryujo got serious damage numbers.

...

I think the original poster is dead wrong about the Essex and the AS mode.  The Essex failed because it was facing a TIAHO.  Had the CV selections been reversed, your adversary would be wiping the floor with you.

In Co-Op, one will never face the disparity differences between US and IJN carriers.

 

Funny I did the same thing in a AS Saipan. 5 missions 25 plane plus average kill rate in random. I was noticing I was losing planes  faster even with the HP fighter health buffs and I looked at the breakdown. Seems most of them was from USN CA's with AA buff's/specs since I stayed away from BB's save Japanese. And if a strike CV splits up his strike, my priority has been torpedo bomers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
270
[GGWP]
[GGWP]
Members
1,628 posts
10,880 battles

Because CV MM is crap. Because AA upscale. Because I find it easier to play AS against a better CV player. Because AS can ruin DD play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
3,256 posts
4,322 battles

There nothing really wrong with AS builds, it's the players playing them that ruins games. They are hugely ineffective and blob all their squadrons into one group and sometimes used that blob to escort their bombers. It makes the AS cv redundant. 

 

At least for me. I don't care if I'm being out played or get into a bad scenario because I can fix it next game or learn something. Point and click, revenge killing AS players are not only no fun to play against they hurt their team just because they can't play well enough normally. My personal frustration come from knowing what it feels like to be on their team or worse an allied cv in a 2v2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
3,256 posts
4,322 battles

Because CV MM is crap. Because AA upscale. Because I find it easier to play AS against a better CV player. Because AS can ruin DD play.

All of that except "Easier to play" is easily done with balanced loadouts without hurting your team

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,654
[CALM]
Beta Testers
6,831 posts
5,183 battles

I think you may have missed the second part of his post where he pointed out playing AS not only makes the other CV's games miserable, but also makes you a detriment to your team. 

 

But that's wrong; an AS CV can keep the enemy lit (and light up torpedoes being dropped from within smoke) while the enemy CV is unable to do anything once their bombers and fighters have been deleted by an AS CV.  The enemy CV then just becomes dead weight while the AS CV can continue supporting via eternal lighting up of the enemy targets.

 

It's really the stupidity of the allied team to be unable to capitalize on what the AS CV is keeping lit for them once the skies have been cleared, barring a token exception of a 35kt+ DD just running away the last few minutes of the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×