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1HandTiedBehindMyBack

Was there a stage of Beta where carriers had no manual drops?

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[G-REB]
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It has been a while but I thought I remembered WG removing manual drops at some stage in beta.  I bring it up only because they seemed to be almost as good as manual drops but it allowed you to be more tactical and less twitchy.  So would the game come crashing to a halt if they removed all manual skills?  I will admit I only play my carrier currently in PvE and sometimes when I am feeling lazy I will just use auto drops and have still been able to break 100k damage at tier 8. (I know bots vs people)  Just wondering if this is the direction WG is going to go?

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I don't recall them not having Manual drops at least while i've been playing the game.

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Removing manual drops removes all skill, it removes the impetus to learn, and it will just make the current issues problems at T6 instead of T4 and T5. This is a beyond idiotic decision by WG in a series of new illfated and inexplicable changes from them. I would never play a CV again without manual drops, theres no point (not that I would mind CVs being extinct too terribly, but this foolish on WG's part for the aforementioned reasons.

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Removing manual drops removes all skill, it removes the impetus to learn, and it will just make the current issues problems at T6 instead of T4 and T5. This is a beyond idiotic decision by WG in a series of new illfated and inexplicable changes from them. I would never play a CV again without manual drops, theres no point (not that I would mind CVs being extinct too terribly, but this foolish on WG's part for the aforementioned reasons.

These units have too high a skill cap, too low a basement, and too much influence on the ebb and flow of gameplay.

 

View Postissm, on 11 March 2017 - 11:35 PM, said:

 

And this is why every unicum CV player will come out and whine about how every suggested rework, or way to fix CVs is a nerf.

 

Because for them, it is.

 

Any solution to CVs has to cut down the skill ceiling, and for those at that ceiling, it'll be a huge nerf, regardless what it does for people at the floor.

 

Removing manual drops will absolutely acheive the goal of narrowing the floor vs ceiling.

 

Unicms will oppose it because it'll prevent them from roflstomping as hard as they do now, and singlehandedly carrying games.

 

Of course, they can't admit that that's the reason, they'd look like elitist d-bags.

 

So what do they say instead? "This will take all the skill out of playing CVs". Ignoring the fact that positioning, target selection, and attack timings make up a far greater piece of the overall puzzle than "dropping well".

 

 

 Reposting for relevance

 

 

And no, I do not recall There ever being a phase in testing that didnt have manual drops.

Edited by Sonoskay
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 Reposting for relevance

 

 

I know the counterargument. I am not a unicum CV player, they are probably my worst class, I have some 300 CV battles compared to 2k+ in each other class, they are my least favorite class also. I agree there is a problem, but what is needed is a general rebalance of CVs nad disabling the air supremacy skill at T4/5. This game should not conform to the lowest common denominator. This sounds like a problem that could be fixed with better tutorials etc.

 

I reject your quoted strawman. There might be a few screaming unicums in the rabble, but I'm against this because it removes skill at all. How about they remove autodrops so players have to learn to drop? That would make more sense to me. This is the same thing as encouraging DDs to be slaves to the gray line. The gray line should exist, but players need to learn what to do with it  and how to use it to be good!

 

CVs absolutely have too much influence on the battle. CVs absolutely are OP in certain players' hands. CVs absolutely need to be modified and rebalanced. 

 

I will be among the first to say and agree with those statements. This is not the solution. That is what I am saying. It took only a couple battles for me to learn how to not be an absolute fool using manual drops. Why are we conforming to the lowest common denominator?

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[CALM]
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Manual drops should be removed in order to more evenly balance CVs.  In place, auto drops should improve by tier to the point that at T10, it's more or less equal to manual drops, with some balancing on drop distance for fairness (balanced as WG sees fit).  Rather than this half-baked removal at T4-5 but leaving a vast gulf of skill difference at T6 onwards.

 

This reduces the gulf between new and veteran CV players, and Strafe will remain as a balance breaker along with being smart enough to set up cross drops.

 

Then for flavor outside of squad sizes, the IJN CVs can shift their TB drops to fan out or cross itself (inverted fan), while USN DBs can adjust the bombing ovoid between narrow (ovoid) or wide (circular).

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Manual drops should be removed in order to more evenly balance CVs.  In place, auto drops should improve by tier to the point that at T10, it's more or less equal to manual drops, with some balancing on drop distance for fairness (balanced as WG sees fit).  Rather than this half-baked removal at T4-5 but leaving a vast gulf of skill difference at T6 onwards.

 

This reduces the gulf between new and veteran CV players, and Strafe will remain as a balance breaker along with being smart enough to set up cross drops.

 

Then for flavor outside of squad sizes, the IJN CVs can shift their TB drops to fan out or cross itself (inverted fan), while USN DBs can adjust the bombing ovoid between narrow (ovoid) or wide (circular).

 

As much as I have distaste for CVs, why is everyone intent on making them extinct? Rebalance and rework them, don't make them worthless, and don't make skilled CV players quit. Because that's what this "solution" would do. This eliminates 90% of the skill involved.

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Removing manual drops removes all skill, it removes the impetus to learn, and it will just make the current issues problems at T6 instead of T4 and T5. This is a beyond idiotic decision by WG in a series of new illfated and inexplicable changes from them. I would never play a CV again without manual drops, theres no point (not that I would mind CVs being extinct too terribly, but this foolish on WG's part for the aforementioned reasons.

It does not remove all skill, only a large chunk of the micro- management. 

 

Skill in an RTS is not just about your ability to micro manage, but how to macro manage the map and maneuver your enemy into a vulnerable position. Get too focused one one area, and the enemy could hit you from another side if they micro manage you correctly. 

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It has been a while but I thought I remembered WG removing manual drops at some stage in beta.  I bring it up only because they seemed to be almost as good as manual drops but it allowed you to be more tactical and less twitchy.  So would the game come crashing to a halt if they removed all manual skills?  I will admit I only play my carrier currently in PvE and sometimes when I am feeling lazy I will just use auto drops and have still been able to break 100k damage at tier 8. (I know bots vs people)  Just wondering if this is the direction WG is going to go?

 

There was a stage in alpha or closed beta where manual drops did not exist, nor strafing. But, trying to deal with the issues at one point in beta they made it a skill, which unfortunately became an issue of have and have not because of the [edited]auto delete that is strafing. 

 

Removing manual drops removes all skill, it removes the impetus to learn, and it will just make the current issues problems at T6 instead of T4 and T5. This is a beyond idiotic decision by WG in a series of new illfated and inexplicable changes from them. I would never play a CV again without manual drops, theres no point (not that I would mind CVs being extinct too terribly, but this foolish on WG's part for the aforementioned reasons.

 

Manual drops are not that much skill. place line close to ship, watch torps hit. Normal drop you have to account for actual range, an ability for that ship to dodge and actually set a proper angle if you actually want to do damage. Both you can train a chimp to do. Remove it from all tiers and balance it right, you actually have BB's and others now having a chance to dodge, not rely on OP AA to save them, fighters can't auto delete other planes meaning you actually have to prioritize what you attack, and weigh risk/reward engaging the enemy fighters, and make people actually use their head and not just put a line 90 degrees to a ship at point blank. A player that knows how to use auto attacks well can match manual drop users in damage, I know, I used to till I said to hell with it and started exploiting easy mode putting 6 torps into the side of a BB, other then when I actually exploit defensive AA to widen the spread to hit groups of ships.

 

As far as manual drops and strafing go? Removing those will not cause the game to come crashing down, except for those that have come to rely too much on the crutch that is instantly deleting 30 planes and putting torps so close to a ship it has no time to turn with the press of a button, and for those that can't process thinking beyond "attack" and find it too hard to debate defending their bombers, or defending their fleet. Remove those and you actually make it more about TACTICS which is what they were supposed to be about to begin with. Current level when it's too long term captains is "press alt to strafe, if survive press alt near ship, wash rinse, repeat" with only IJN vs USN causing any real need for tactics due either to lack of fighters, or the fact USN fighters are hilariously overpowered especially with strafe. The game was fine when they didn't exist. The game was fine when you had a match between two players lack the captain skill that gave you MD, and the game is fine when you get two captains, rare as it is, that DON'T sink to using alt keys and comes down to who makes the better decisions, not who auto deletes planes first.

 

You remove alt attack, you remove the need for insane AA, remove insane AA, you have more of a need for fighters, and less attrition for carriers, and no strafing further lowers that attrition, meaning that even when out tiered, a CV won't be burning through planes as fast, meaning it's helpful longer and is possibly more inclined to bring fighters, which if you balance them and groups right fixes USN fighters having uncontested control up through at least tier 8 and give USN having a lack of good flexible options to play with. Removing those broken mechanics means the potential to fix a lot of things. Only other thing would be making smoke clouds selectable as targets for TB's to fish out anyone hiding in it.

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[SHOJO]
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To be honest, carrier players would have way more respect from me if they were willing to give up their manual drops. You're the captain of the carrier, not the pilots of the planes. Aside from realism, it makes too much sense to not get rid of the manual micro management of carrier planes. It would actually close the gap between the ceiling and basement as people here have said, which explicitly helps those at the base skill level against those of the ceiling level. This could seem unfair (as in, what good was all the work to get to the ceiling was for), but seriously, it's ridiculous that carriers can drop perfect dive bomb runs and do 10-20k damage on a run when a battleship can maybe... maybe pull off 15k damage at tier 8/9 per salvo. 

 

Anyways, there was actually a point in Closed Beta, somewhere in the middle section of the time frame where they meddled something with the manual controls of carriers, though I don't remember what it was exactly... Sorry I wasn't much use to the main question. :hiding:

Edited by HoIo

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Manual drops should be removed in order to more evenly balance CVs.  In place, auto drops should improve by tier to the point that at T10, it's more or less equal to manual drops, with some balancing on drop distance for fairness (balanced as WG sees fit).  Rather than this half-baked removal at T4-5 but leaving a vast gulf of skill difference at T6 onwards.

 

This reduces the gulf between new and veteran CV players, and Strafe will remain as a balance breaker along with being smart enough to set up cross drops.

 

Then for flavor outside of squad sizes, the IJN CVs can shift their TB drops to fan out or cross itself (inverted fan), while USN DBs can adjust the bombing ovoid between narrow (ovoid) or wide (circular).

 

Sounds interesting actually. This sounds fair, even though I'm not against manual drops.

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