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Shallot_N_Cream

The History of WG's Treatment on DDs (the shippost edition)

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List found, direct and indirect nerfs to IJN Torp Boat DDs as of September 2015-November 2016.

 

Damage control system mod 1 now increases TDS modifier by 3%

Target Acquisition System now lets you spots torpedoes earlier, this stacks with Vigilance

Superior German SONAR

German BBs get SONAR at high tiers

SONAR now increases in range as tiers go up

Radar

Radar is then buffed, so it reloads faster than smoke

Radar introduced in three T7 CLs including the Belfast which carries smoke and hydro also

British CLs get SONAR and no DF option, so they must carry it

British CLs, Flint, and MK have smoke

British CLs have low detectability 

British CL AP is amazing against DDs, I put up a 10k volley from my Fiji on a DD at 7km yesterday, that should not happen

Faster ships, Iowa and Monty given speed boosts, premiums like the Leningrad, reintroduction of the Sims

Rudder Shift Mod that allows high tier cruisers and DDs to turn faster to avoid torps

Heavy nerfs to 610mm torps, they are now super easy to detect, and don't even do more damage than 533s are capable of until T8. They are not even faster, with the exception of F3 torps, which only go 8km.

Universal Situational Awareness is a boon to BBs

Asynchronous torp launch (the whole set used to fire at once), now there is a slight delay between each torp widening thin spreads and making them fire unevenly during a turn, this also results in incomplete sets being fired when you are sunk in the middle. This may also be an explanation for the theory that torp spreads were "stealth-nerfed" which I don't include as there is no concrete evidence.

Secondary buffs to some cruisers and higher tier USN BBs

German BB secondaries

 

Additional nerfs since Nov 2016:

Missouri, a BB with radar has been added.

German DDs get hydro at mid and high tiers

USS Black, a DD with Radar is introduced.

Russian DD HE is buffed for a reason that yet to be adequately defended, allowing IJN torp boats to be gunned down even quicker.

More Russian DDs are added, some of which get heals. Others of which have substantially better concealment and DPM than their same-tier predecessors.

Manual secondaries now a T4 skill, TAE now a T3 skill

RPF, while not a death blow as some feared, is an indirect nerf

 

Please suggest others and I will add them to this list.

Edited by ckupf
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20km torps were [edited]retarded to begin with.

There's a reason why lazy players congregate to ships that let them be lazy and Shima with 20km torps is one of the worst offenders in this regard.

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20km torps were [edited]retarded to begin with.

There's a reason why lazy players congregate to ships that let them be lazy and Shima with 20km torps is one of the worst offenders in this regard.

 

I have no problem with getting rid of the 20km torps, that was fine, but nerfing the other torps to uselessness was not fine. I never play my Shima anymore.
Edited by ckupf
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I have no problem with getting rid of the 20km torps, that was fine, but nerfing the other torps to uselessness was not fine. I never play my Shima anymore.

 

The new type 90 torps are balanced in such a way that they have only slightly worse reaction time compared to Fletcher torps.

Each torp still does more damage than Fletcher torps.

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The new type 90 torps are balanced in such a way that they have only slightly worse reaction time compared to Fletcher torps.

Each torp still does more damage than Fletcher torps.

 

That's just blatantly false. 9.92s on the Type 90s, same approximate value as all other 610s except for the nerfed Type 93s and Type 93 Mod 3.

 

Fletcher torps have a 8.16s reaction time, same approximate value as all other 533s. 

 

These values, (my chart only includes DDs, so I can't check unique cruiser torps) depend ONLY on the caliber of the torp, with the exception of the two Type 93 variants and the Sims Bliss Leavitt Mk7 mod 2B, which for some unknown reason is counted as a 533mm torp for detection purposes instead of a 450mm

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That's just blatantly false. 9.92s on the Type 90s, same approximate value as all other 610s except for the nerfed Type 93s and Type 93 Mod 3.

 

Fletcher torps have a 8.16s reaction time, same approximate value as all other 533s. 

 

These values, (my chart only includes DDs, so I can't check unique cruiser torps) depend ONLY on the caliber of the torp, with the exception of the two Type 93 variants and the Sims  Bliss Leavitt Mk7 mod 2B, which for some unknown reason is counted as a 533mm torp for detection purposes instead of a 450mm

 

My memory is failing me today.

I recall some other torp having nearly fletcher torp reaction time and I did the math behind it too.

 

Maybe TA enhanced type 90 with 9.1s?

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Someone did a shippost on r/WorldofWarships

I think you guys should read it for your amusement as well.

Original Link;

 

 

20km OP Torps on Shima:

BBs & CAs: "Shima torps too op. Please nerf."

WG: "Ok, her torps are now slower and easier to spot."

Shima: "[edited]...alright I understand."

Proliferation of radars:

CAs: "DDs disappear when they stop firing. That's not fair."

WG: "Ok, here's some cool radars for Russian and American CAs."

Shima & DDs: "Wait...BOTH lines get it?"

WG: "Don't worry we aren't gonna give it to BBs you can still bully them."

Missouri: "Yeah, fret not little boats."

Japanese "buff":

WG: "Why don't you Japanese DDs fire your guns more? I thought you guys like your better gun arcs than the American DDs'?"

Shima: "Ehh I dunno maybe because we have horrible reload and traverse times?"

WG: "Ok, here's a little buff to your reload time"

Shima: "Really?!"

WG: "Yeah, have 0.5 sec"

Shima: "...what?"

WG: "Just enough so that the Americans and Russians can still pump out twice as much shells as you do. Oh and you now have a lower fire chance."

Shima: "..."

WG: "NOW MAKE THOSE SHELLS RAIN"

Japanese tree-split:

WG: "Y'know, Shimakaze, after ALL THESE YEARS and ALL OUR EFFORTS to make you guys more active when firing your guns, for some reason you just still won't do as we wish. Heck, we've done crapto your torps, and yet you still hang on to them like it's your only viable option to do output."

Shima: "黙りなさい、あほ外人どもめ。"

WG: "What does that mean?"

Shima: "It means 'we are truly sorry for our lack of competence in fulfilling your wish, master.'"

WG: "Well it's too late for apologies. Frankly speaking, we've given up on you...and Kagero and Fubuki. If you want to hang on to your torps THAT badly, go ahead and do that. We'll give the gun-firing roles to someone else from Japan - You still remember Akizuki-class, right?"

Shima: "Yeah?"

WG: "Well they're gonna get 8 guns, good gun traverse, AND just as good of a concealment as you do!"

Shima: "...really? Alright, at least I can still be the pretty top-notch torpboat I am."

WG: "Funny how you can say that after seeing Fletcher. Oh, and surely you also remember Shiratsuyu-class?"

RPF:

BBs & CAs: "DDs still too hard to find. They're using their concealment to escape. That's not fair!"

WG: "Ok, DDs, we're not gonna have you go around doing that."

Gearing: "Wai-Wait WHAT?"

Shima: "...Oh COME ON"

Z-52: "blargh garb agrahb blarh blargh crzkkk"

WG: "What?"

Gearing: "Z-52's saying: 'Kill me and end my pain please'"

WG: "Oh come on, you're still not over being accidentally strangled and left with permanent brain handicap from your birth incident? Grow up!"

Khaba: "Meh, I'm fine with it."

WG: "See? Khaba's fine with it."

Gearing & Shima: "B-but..."

WG: "KHABA IS FINE WITH IT!"

Removal of invisi-fire

WG: "DDs, we have more problems. BBs and CAs aren't happy that you are staying out of your physical detection and their radar/hydro detection ranges and still being able to fire your guns at them. We aren't gonna let you do that anymore."

Gearing: "I'm not sure if you get the memo, but we AREN'T all Khabas."

WG: "Nonsense! You just have to get over 40 kts and stop relying on your torps so much!"

Akizuki: "Wow...Shima, I'm late to the party but what you've told me about these guys IS true."

Shima: "Can uhh...can we ask for full-rotational turrets?"

WG: "Why?"

Shima: "So we can shoot our own superstructures at 1/2 the speed everyone else can."

 

Wonderful reading!  10/10, will read again.

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20km torps were [edited]retarded to begin with.

There's a reason why lazy players congregate to ships that let them be lazy and Shima with 20km torps is one of the worst offenders in this regard.

 

oops srry - thought you said CV.

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Wonderful reading!  10/10, will read again.

 

^this^ 
Edited by Wulfgarn

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Great post. 

That list of nerfs to DDs is great. 

 

....but don't worry. The Devs will still sententiously complain in interviews that they don't want so many BBs played. And then still change the game in ways that encourage the playing of BBs even more!

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It struck me this weekend that battleships can essentially reach full offensive potency simply through unlocking and buying modules. On the other hand, for a destroyer to reach full potency, you have to not only unlock and buy modules but you also have to have an advanced captain.

 

My memory may be off, but I don't believe there are any captain skills that really improve battleship offensive capabilities. Yet for destroyers (at least for gunboats) you really need AFT, a 4 point skill, which means a 10 point captain. To get away with invisifire, you pretty much need a 14 point captain. Why is this not considered enough of a handicap for destroyers?

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It struck me this weekend that battleships can essentially reach full offensive potency simply through unlocking and buying modules. On the other hand, for a destroyer to reach full potency, you have to not only unlock and buy modules but you also have to have an advanced captain.

 

My memory may be off, but I don't believe there are any captain skills that really improve battleship offensive capabilities. Yet for destroyers (at least for gunboats) you really need AFT, a 4 point skill, which means a 10 point captain. To get away with invisifire, you pretty much need a 14 point captain. Why is this not considered enough of a handicap for destroyers?

 

It's simple and I can sum it up in one meme.

FKBbHjA.jpg

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Its funny, I stopped playing IJN DD's at Mutsuki (The old one) as, that was a known stain on the line. But I also decided the patient gameplay of setting up torpedo strikes was not for me.

 

But I have played a good bit of USN and Soviet. If anything, I feel they are stronger now than this time last year. (This may be confirmation bias, there is a possibility that my advancement in the game is outstripping their nerfs, But, I will stand behind my statement.)

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My memory may be off, but I don't believe there are any captain skills that really improve battleship offensive capabilities. 

 

To be fair, unless you snipe in your BB, part of your offensive capability is being able to take a pounding, because you are the slowest and least maneuverable ship. So all the "defensive" skills DO boost your offensive capability.

 

Every BB skill I take is intended to improve my offensive capability by allowing me to withstand more crap getting tossed at me.

 

If there were a skill that directly increased my offense, I'd take that too. But if such skills were added in a patch, people would go nuts and blame it on "whining BBabies". 

 

Also, any skill directly improving BB offense would only encourage sub-optimal play. By indirectly improving it through increased defense, getting involved in the battle enough to take hits is encouraged.

 

BBs don't need longer-ranged main guns, more accuracy, or more damage.

 

But those "defensive" skills are every bit as important to BB offense as the skills DDs take are to theirs.

 

Bismarck, arguably the best BB at Tier 8, is an exception. If you don't have AFT and MS, you might as well stay in port.

 

Edited by Skpstr
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Its funny, I stopped playing IJN DD's at Mutsuki (The old one) as, that was a known stain on the line. But I also decided the patient gameplay of setting up torpedo strikes was not for me.

 

But I have played a good bit of USN and Soviet. If anything, I feel they are stronger now than this time last year. (This may be confirmation bias, there is a possibility that my advancement in the game is outstripping their nerfs, But, I will stand behind my statement.)

 

Not confirmation bias.  1v1 both of those lines slaughter IJN destroyers.  The *only* way an IJN DD can win that fight is to sucker them into torps launched at least 30 seconds before (by firing your guns and turning broadside to encourage tunnel vision).

 

As a casual, I only had IJN DDs past Tier 4 for a long time (free XP'd the Soviets for the free ships last week).  Took the Soviet T8 out for a spin; top 3 xp and 98k damage without even trying.   Milking damage with an IJN DD is like squeezing blood from a stone while dodging shotgun shells.

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LOL....good read, have my upvote. The above is why I hardly play Randoms anymore, really because the next time some LOLradar ship lights me up while hiding behind an island so his 4 friends can shoot me, I may very well lose my temper on him and get banned. So I dont even go there.................

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LOL....good read, have my upvote. The above is why I hardly play Randoms anymore, really because the next time some LOLradar ship lights me up while hiding behind an island so his 4 friends can shoot me, I may very well lose my temper on him and get banned. So I dont even go there.................

 

play smart

don't go into caps with lots of islands if the reds have radar ships

If you do, make sure you have support and can make a quick getaway

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It's simple and I can sum it up in one meme.

FKBbHjA.jpg

 

Aww,Talon,all BB mains don't react that way(me). I adapt,overcome.

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play smart

don't go into caps with lots of islands if the reds have radar ships

If you do, make sure you have support and can make a quick getaway

 

Eh, no thx. Id match my skills with most. Its the principle of it. My thoughts about it are, if someone is so inept that they cant sink a 18000hp ship without a button and team mates, maybe they need to uninstall. Take up knitting maybe, IDK. If it were line of sight, I wouldnt have a problem with it...................

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Aww,Talon,all BB mains don't react that way(me). I adapt,overcome.

 

Same. Playing BBs isn't just "I fire big guns and smash things while being smashed." It's way more complex than that.

 

A skilled DD is my worst nightmare. They're like Neo when it comes to dodging and will clobber you like the horrifying mutant child that's spawned when the Thing and the Hulk have a freaky night unless you almost ignore everything else happening to prioritize planning what you're gonna do to dodge their torps.

 

Anyways, onto the OP. Even as a BB player this post does seem to put the DD nerfs in a pretty unfair light; feels a bit wrong to me. Even so, I feel I'll need the reasoning from both sides to figure out everything; I prefer hearing both sides of the story so I can make a conclusion.

 

In spite of what I just said though, I feel that rof buff is freaking terrible. Seriously, what?! 0.5 seconds? You're joking right?

Edited by BrassFire

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But, let's all remember: It's Balanced™ and Fun and Engaging™ while Working as Intended™, and, if for some reason it's not, it will be Soon™.

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