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atl_grunge

Tired of "adapt and overcome", stop changing stuff please.

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With the news about changes to stealth firing, I was wondering how many times I will need to adapt my style, due to the recurrent changes that WG implements on the game, making impacts on DDs gameplay (IJN mostly).

 

I am getting a bit tired of playing DDs because every damn time I have to adapt again to newer styles, spending doubloons for skill resets, time for learning the new stuff, making credits from upgrades and spending money/time on commander transfers.

 

Just a reminder of how many times I have been forced to "adapt":

  1. - Torpedo detection nerfs on IJN DDs.
  2. - Radar proliferation (You can't even see the Russian cruisers that are detecting you)
  3. - IJN DDs guns changes (Damage and Fire Chance nerf) 
  4. - Akizuki pen nerf
  5. - "Radio Position Finding"
  6. - And the most painful, the loss of my beloved t8 Fubuki :(

     

Heck! I am very frustrated with the recurrent changes so I have decided to abandon the IJN DDs because they feel like a waste of time and money, after a year of "adapting" and maybe more incoming changes.

 

Please note that I am not complaining about balance or anything like that, I am just very disappointed on how WG have tested this game and offers an incomplete product.

 

 

 

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Game is very different now from where it was in testing and not necessarily in a good way.

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I too miss the old fubuki.

 

I too am tired of the constant nerfing of destroyers.

I have 7 premium destroyers.

Ijn from tier 6 to 9. Russian to tier 9. USN to tier 9. And German to tier 6...

That's gonna be a ship ton of ships I sell on 6.3 day...

 

Looks like the only class worth playing will be the cry baby battleships.

 

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Game is very different now from where it was in testing and not necessarily in a good way.

 

tbh, lots of things when the game was in CBT were awful
Edited by Cruiser_Noshiro

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Here is your Fact checker

  1. This is true. High damage torps, but worst detection range
  2. Partially true. There's literally only one soviet cruiser that can pull this off, which is Chappayev. The other two require islands or smoke to hide behind.
  3. Mostly false. Their DPM was improved, except on Shima, and their fire chance over several salvos remained the same.
  4. True, but also False. Akizuki could never pen 19mm to start with, so there was no noticeable change here whatsoever.

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Here is your Fact checker

  1. This is true. High damage torps, but worst detection range
  2. Partially true. There's literally only one soviet cruiser that can pull this off, which is Chappayev. The other two require islands or smoke to hide behind.
  3. Mostly false. Their DPM was improved, except on Shima, and their fire chance over several salvos remained the same.
  4. True, but also False. Akizuki could never pen 19mm to start with, so there was no noticeable change here whatsoever.

 

3. Fire chance reduced on Shima also, Umikaze, Isokaze, and Minekaze all saw decrease in DPM and fire chance IIRC.

 

I'd consider that at least partially true.

Edited by ckupf

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I miss the old IJN DDs. They had a purpose. Now? We cant compete for caps. We dont get anything for spotting targets. We can't provide enough AA to even consider defending ourselves, let alone anyone else. We dont have any efficient ways to screen for enemy torps or DDs. Our torps can be seen from space, and can be outpaced by literal fish. Our guns only have a little bit more range than the defensive armamament of the ships we're supposed to counter, many of which are being given additional tools to specifically counter DDs.

 

Seriously, what's the point of Japanese destroyers? I can think of literally nothing they can do to actively help that cant be done at least as well by a different ship thats actually good at something.

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3. Fire chance reduced on Shima also, Umikaze, Isokaze, and Minekaze all saw decrease in DPM and fire chance IIRC.

 

I'd consider that at least partially true.

 

oh, right, I forgot those existed.

For the 127mm/50 gunned DDs, except Shima, the DPM increased, while fire chance over time remained the same.

 

I miss the old IJN DDs. They had a purpose. Now? We cant compete for caps. We dont get anything for spotting targets. We can't provide enough AA to even consider defending ourselves, let alone anyone else. We dont have any efficient ways to screen for enemy torps or DDs. Our torps can be seen from space, and can be outpaced by literal fish. Our guns only have a little bit more range than the defensive armamament of the ships we're supposed to counter, many of which are being given additional tools to specifically counter DDs.

 

Seriously, what's the point of Japanese destroyers? I can think of literally nothing they can do to actively help that cant be done at least as well by a different ship thats actually good at something.

 

Depends on the tier.

Shiratsuyu and Yugumo are perfectly capable of contesting caps with concealment advantage. With Yugumo, the guns are quite painful to underestimate.

Akatsuki is a bit weak at contesting caps, due to bad concealment, but it's not a complete death sentence and can be done as it packs enough firepower to do so.

Kagero, has concealment advantage it can use at cap circles, if supported by friendly ships. Kagero spots, other ships fight the spotted DD.

Shimakaze, just don't bother, definitely very weak at contesting caps.

Edited by MrDeaf

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oh, right, I forgot those existed.

For the 127mm/50 gunned DDs, except Shima, the DPM increased, while fire chance over time remained the same.

 

 

Depends on the tier.

Shiratsuyu and Yugumo are perfectly capable of contesting caps with concealment advantage. With Yugumo, the guns are quite painful to underestimate.

Akatsuki is a bit weak at contesting caps, due to bad concealment, but it's not a complete death sentence and can be done as it packs enough firepower to do so.

Kagero, has concealment advantage it can use at cap circles, if supported by friendly ships. Kagero spots, other ships fight the spotted DD.

Shimakaze, just don't bother, definitely very weak at contesting caps.

 

I still think that in the game of rock-paper-scissors, they're the kid with no hands. It just kind of feels like every time I take one out, I'm wasting a DD spot that would be better utilized by a nation with an alphabet. 

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Wargaming continues to fix things about the game that aren't broken, simply because the whiners whine so much.

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When the only nerf that needs to hit DDs is a nerf to Torpedo damage from 18000 to like 9,000.  Also, rework and nerf the [edited]out of fire and HE [edited].  THen they can undo all the other nerfs. 

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I still think that in the game of rock-paper-scissors, they're the kid with no hands. It just kind of feels like every time I take one out, I'm wasting a DD spot that would be better utilized by a nation with an alphabet. 

 

The big difference happens when you have TAE and CE skills, at least for the cap competent DDs.

The trash DDs remain trash even with those captain skills and no amount of player skill will make a difference in their ability to contest caps.

 

You also have to realize that all IJN DDs have a higher skill floor, which makes them difficult to play and learn.

IMO, Shiratsuyu is the easiest to IJN DD to play.

  • T7 radar can be deadly, but it's easy to outplay
  • 5s TRB is a handy tool
  • You have the absolute best concealment in T6/7
  • T7 match making puts you up against T5 and T6 most of the time and there aren't that many DDs in that tier bracket that can go toe to toe with Shiratsuyu. It's really only a skilled Sims or Farragut that poses a serious problem.

by "toe to toe", I don't mean "get in a gun fight immediately", I mean "out spot them, let your team soften them up, then strike if it's opportune." There's just no way a Shiratsuyu will beat a 100% HP red gunboat DD without help.

Edited by MrDeaf

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Wargaming continues to fix things about the game that aren't broken, simply because the whiners whine so much.

 

No. This is wrong.

 

WG keeps making unasked for changes because its numbers say game length is still too long. Thus the nerfs to IJN DDs, especially the old Fubuki. Those 15 km torps controlled space perfectly. I used to love playing area denial in that ship. Almost 500 games.

 

It was heartbreaking when WG did the Great IJN Nerf. 

 

As I always say, you can adapt to having your leg cut off, but that doesn't mean you weren't better off with two legs. 

 

 

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I always liken to changes being made to a game similar to the old story of several blind men trying to describe an elephant.  Each can only touch a small part of the animal's body and none of them can see the overall whole to complete the big picture.  Looking at individual buffs and nerfs do not give us the big picture of the overall direction in game design that Wargaming has planned.  Unless they were to come forward and tell us well in advance where their vision for the game is in the future, all we can do is look at small pieces of the puzzle and raise questions.

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I am getting a bit tired of playing DDs because every damn time I have to adapt again to newer styles, spending doubloons for skill resets, time for learning the new stuff, making credits from upgrades and spending money/time on commander transfers.

 

 

 

You pretty much hit the nail on the head with your above statement.  Having played these various games for years, they all do the same thing with the same motivation.  Changes are instituted to keep you playing and paying.  Game changes are made under the guise of 'balance' but they are basically designed to keep the hard core players chasing the next 'flavor of the month' or the 'next best thing.'  Not passing judgement....just saying.

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Wargaming continues to fix things about the game that aren't broken

 

Honestly I think it is this. ^

There is no need for flames to be on my screen that I now cannot "completely" turn off. Again another "Update" that was not mentioned. As now there is a halo on my screen that cannot be turned off. One would think that if they did have a complete vision there would be no need to change or nerf complete lines. That anything new could be adapted to the balance of the existing game.  But they seem to be having issues with that.  Feel your pain OP, we've all been there.

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I always liken to changes being made to a game similar to the old story of several blind men trying to describe an elephant.  Each can only touch a small part of the animal's body and none of them can see the overall whole to complete the big picture.  Looking at individual buffs and nerfs do not give us the big picture of the overall direction in game design that Wargaming has planned.  Unless they were to come forward and tell us well in advance where their vision for the game is in the future, all we can do is look at small pieces of the puzzle and raise questions.

 

Good viewpoint to have, I've been here since the back side of the CBT, and I still wonder how how WG will mold this game. Some days I like what they're doing and want to applaud their efforts, others I'm left scratching my head in confusion. I'm holding off on drastic judgement for this, but this style of nerf definitely falls into the "confusion" category.

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Read the EULA, they can change what they want when they want to.  Pay more money why don't ya,,,feed the beast some more.

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tbh, lots of things when the game was in CBT were awful

There was lots of nice things too though.

I always liken to changes being made to a game similar to the old story of several blind men trying to describe an elephant.  Each can only touch a small part of the animal's body and none of them can see the overall whole to complete the big picture.  Looking at individual buffs and nerfs do not give us the big picture of the overall direction in game design that Wargaming has planned.  Unless they were to come forward and tell us well in advance where their vision for the game is in the future, all we can do is look at small pieces of the puzzle and raise questions.

 

Lol WG telling us what is happening? That's funny.

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No. This is wrong.

 

WG keeps making unasked for changes because its numbers say game length is still too long. Thus the nerfs to IJN DDs, especially the old Fubuki. Those 15 km torps controlled space perfectly. I used to love playing area denial in that ship. Almost 500 games.

 

It was heartbreaking when WG did the Great IJN Nerf. 

 

As I always say, you can adapt to having your leg cut off, but that doesn't mean you weren't better off with two legs. 

 

 

 

What this guy said.

 

The only time I play IJN DD's now in PvP is in Ranked(Which I'm done with) for their concealment, or T5 and under. The nerfs along with the proliferation of gunboats(Looking at you, Rooskies, looking at you), have made them nerfed and power creeped out of viability for most PvP matches from T6 up. The only saving grace at T5 for them is Kamikaze and her clones, which if you don't got, you ain't gettin'.

 

However, I've never been one to use invisi-fire. I've always waited until detected to open fire with guns in IJN DD's, and the only one of my ships that invisi-fire nerfs is Akizuki, since she's really a lightly armed AA cruiser, she ain't much of a DD. I simply don't use invisi-fire. It amuses me how many BBabies scream about invisi-fire, when the vast majority of the player base either doesn't use it, or doesn't even realize it exists in the first place.

 

Anything to appease the whiny 40 year old crowd who thinks BB's are the answer to everything. I mean, seriously, carriers had BB's for breakfast, but not in this game. No, the whiners have definitely wrecked game balance, because every nerf is a defacto buff to BB's.

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Nah, they're still capable. Just bring backup and stay closer to it.

 

Though of course in campfest that takes a miracle. Only up to Hatsu, and I don't contest caps without backup that follows me in.

 

Adapting wasn't hard.

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Hey! At 52 I resemble that remark!! :D No seriously I have felt the same way as the OP for a long time, am just numb to it now. The RU line split has almost convinced me to come back to Randoms. Almost. It stills makes me too mad sometimes (X-ray Radar, looking at YOU) :sceptic:

 

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What this guy said.

 

The only time I play IJN DD's now in PvP is in Ranked(Which I'm done with) for their concealment, or T5 and under. The nerfs along with the proliferation of gunboats(Looking at you, Rooskies, looking at you), have made them nerfed and power creeped out of viability for most PvP matches from T6 up. The only saving grace at T5 for them is Kamikaze and her clones, which if you don't got, you ain't gettin'.

 

However, I've never been one to use invisi-fire. I've always waited until detected to open fire with guns in IJN DD's, and the only one of my ships that invisi-fire nerfs is Akizuki, since she's really a lightly armed AA cruiser, she ain't much of a DD. I simply don't use invisi-fire. It amuses me how many BBabies scream about invisi-fire, when the vast majority of the player base either doesn't use it, or doesn't even realize it exists in the first place.

 

Anything to appease the whiny 40 year old crowd who thinks BB's are the answer to everything. I mean, seriously, carriers had BB's for breakfast, but not in this game. No, the whiners have definitely wrecked game balance, because every nerf is a defacto buff to BB's.

 

Read your post again and tell me who exactly is being the cry baby here?  LOL
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Read your post again and tell me who exactly is being the cry baby here?  LOL

 

FKBbHjA.jpg

Now tell me it isn't true.

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At best, stealth-firing was only ever marginally effective, and opportunities to use it were fleeting, few, and far between.  I've used stealth firing but never relied upon it, and never got significant results.  It's never been a situation that has been reliable enough to plan for.

 

That the devs are now paying so much attention to stealth firing isn't because stealth firing is suddenly considered OP or game breaking - because it's not and never has been.  It has to do with the continuing appeasement of your average battleship player (not the exceptions) who, far more than any other type of player in this game, cries often and loud over anything.

 

I won't miss stealth firing when it goes away, but I am getting sick of a system where one specific class keeps getting nerfed because players of another class are clueless and don't know what they are doing.

 

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