Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
General_Strom

Is this game more luck then skill?

46 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

229
[PRVTR]
Beta Testers
413 posts
4,704 battles

ok WoWs is like Wot, they both have dispersion of shells, you have to aim, your targets are moving, shells bounce, shells do damage etc.  BUT...... I feel that WoWs is a lot more about lucky random rolls then in WoT. Ship guns can be on target and splash shells on both sides of a ship and out of atypical 9 to 12 gun ship have ZERO hits quite often.  So in WoWs I have to put up with misses because I misjudge a range and even when I am right in the middle of a ship I have to put up with misses even being on target.  In WoT if the tank is in the circle I at least know I am going to hit it as the circle represents the dispersion of the shell.  Now I know hiting a fast moving tank changes as you have to lead the tank as you would on most ships as they usually are moving 80% of the time.  Yet, I have had hits splash all around a ship that is stuck on an island or crashed into a friendly, so this should not be any different from hitting a stopped tank in WoT. 

 

Now both are arcade games and to some aspect thank goodness.  I would hate to have limited ammo and realistic hit rates and try and play (especially being a medium skilled player).  Yet I have ships that I hit supposedly 19 to 27% on most my cruisers and BBs.  (I would like to know that your percentage to hits are if you could.) Yet my damage is usually only 25k to 55k per battle.  I am looking to see if the random rolls are affecting players that might be truly a better player from others that may truly be getting the lucky rolls.  I am not trying to say that skill players do not deserve their due, but to see if luck plays a larger part in this game as well.

 

This ranked fight I can not get out of 15th (I did get as low as all marked on 14th to lose 6 in a row and then have a rash of horrible battles. I had two battles that I should not have lost a star but had no star to lose as I was 15th with no marks.  I have stopped playing the ranked fights because of this experience.   The last rank battle period I had a lot of good fights but I did not really compete or care what I ended with. I concentrated more on grinding and ARP missions etc.   This time I must have had a streak of 11 battles with 2 wins.   I truly feel that this does not really rate a player's skill at playing for two reasons.  One I am reliant on my teammates to play tactically. The other is this random computer roll for hits and damage.

 

We are subject to random rolls on hits, citadel hits and damage.  My AP shots seem to hit for 1k damage and many occasions I do not average 1k per hit with AP.  Lower lvl ships seemed to do better.   I seem to rarely get citadel hits and yet I seem to get hit with them VERY often from the very ship I am shooting at (IE we were at the same range)   Now that may be that I do not have time to go to youtube and watch the thousands of videos on how good a ship is or read this forum in depth.  This being the case I feel I am disadvantaged as I play ships I like for historical reasons or just I like the feel of the ship.

 

One of the missions wants us to hit enemy ships 200 times in one battle.  I have NEVER done that.  My Cleveland has had over 100 many time but no where close to 200. Is this a result of the wrong ship or just random computer rolls?  Is getting fewer citadel hits a matter of computer random rolls.  Are the fact it seems to me I am always on fire and cause fewer fires due to both ship selection and random rolls ( i have chosen ships with high percentages of fire and yet still get 1 to 4 fires started in a battle and yet it seems like I am constantly putting fires out on my ship!  Random Computer rolls?

 

Please trolls don't post as I will report you.  I am asking for a discussion of what people think and if so ideas that may help me get out of this rut of damage 25k to 50k per battle.  In previous post I was told to get "Closer"! yet when I try I get sunk real fast.  Yes I maneuver and not move in a straight line.  I have watched a few you tube battles and I really do not see them doing anything different from what I am trying.  

 

So is it really just lousy luck from random rolls and I should be happy that I am playing the same as these folks on youtube or is there just something I am missing?  Personally I am of the opinion it is bad luck.

 

 

PS for you stat lookers I have ships that I suck in and others that I seem to do well in (at least from a win /loss rate.)

 

Please share your thoughts and not "I need to learn to play the game."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,149
[HINON]
Privateers
6,266 posts
3,308 battles

The game has a luck aspect, sure. But good players can use skill to minimize the luck required to do something. Otherwise, how would there be any unicum players?

So, yeah. If you don't want to rely on luck as much, you do have to get better at the game. Learn positioning, aim better, develop good timing and all that.

Otherwise, nothing will change for you.

It's just a matter of experience and what you do with it.   

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
515 posts
306 battles

ok WoWs is like Wot, they both have dispersion of shells, you have to aim, your targets are moving, shells bounce, shells do damage etc.  BUT...... I feel that WoWs is a lot more about lucky random rolls then in WoT. Ship guns can be on target and splash shells on both sides of a ship and out of atypical 9 to 12 gun ship have ZERO hits quite often.  So in WoWs I have to put up with misses because I misjudge a range and even when I am right in the middle of a ship I have to put up with misses even being on target.  In WoT if the tank is in the circle I at least know I am going to hit it as the circle represents the dispersion of the shell.  Now I know hiting a fast moving tank changes as you have to lead the tank as you would on most ships as they usually are moving 80% of the time.  Yet, I have had hits splash all around a ship that is stuck on an island or crashed into a friendly, so this should not be any different from hitting a stopped tank in WoT. 

 

Now both are arcade games and to some aspect thank goodness.  I would hate to have limited ammo and realistic hit rates and try and play (especially being a medium skilled player).  Yet I have ships that I hit supposedly 19 to 27% on most my cruisers and BBs.  (I would like to know that your percentage to hits are if you could.) Yet my damage is usually only 25k to 55k per battle.  I am looking to see if the random rolls are affecting players that might be truly a better player from others that may truly be getting the lucky rolls.  I am not trying to say that skill players do not deserve their due, but to see if luck plays a larger part in this game as well.

 

This ranked fight I can not get out of 15th (I did get as low as all marked on 14th to lose 6 in a row and then have a rash of horrible battles. I had two battles that I should not have lost a star but had no star to lose as I was 15th with no marks.  I have stopped playing the ranked fights because of this experience.   The last rank battle period I had a lot of good fights but I did not really compete or care what I ended with. I concentrated more on grinding and ARP missions etc.   This time I must have had a streak of 11 battles with 2 wins.   I truly feel that this does not really rate a player's skill at playing for two reasons.  One I am reliant on my teammates to play tactically. The other is this random computer roll for hits and damage.

 

We are subject to random rolls on hits, citadel hits and damage.  My AP shots seem to hit for 1k damage and many occasions I do not average 1k per hit with AP.  Lower lvl ships seemed to do better.   I seem to rarely get citadel hits and yet I seem to get hit with them VERY often from the very ship I am shooting at (IE we were at the same range)   Now that may be that I do not have time to go to youtube and watch the thousands of videos on how good a ship is or read this forum in depth.  This being the case I feel I am disadvantaged as I play ships I like for historical reasons or just I like the feel of the ship.

 

One of the missions wants us to hit enemy ships 200 times in one battle.  I have NEVER done that.  My Cleveland has had over 100 many time but no where close to 200. Is this a result of the wrong ship or just random computer rolls?  Is getting fewer citadel hits a matter of computer random rolls.  Are the fact it seems to me I am always on fire and cause fewer fires due to both ship selection and random rolls ( i have chosen ships with high percentages of fire and yet still get 1 to 4 fires started in a battle and yet it seems like I am constantly putting fires out on my ship!  Random Computer rolls?

 

Please trolls don't post as I will report you.  I am asking for a discussion of what people think and if so ideas that may help me get out of this rut of damage 25k to 50k per battle.  In previous post I was told to get "Closer"! yet when I try I get sunk real fast.  Yes I maneuver and not move in a straight line.  I have watched a few you tube battles and I really do not see them doing anything different from what I am trying.  

 

So is it really just lousy luck from random rolls and I should be happy that I am playing the same as these folks on youtube or is there just something I am missing?  Personally I am of the opinion it is bad luck.

 

 

PS for you stat lookers I have ships that I suck in and others that I seem to do well in (at least from a win /loss rate.)

 

Please share your thoughts and not "I need to learn to play the game."

 

The game has a luck aspect, sure. But good players can use skill to minimize the luck required to do something. Otherwise, how would there be any unicum players?

So, yeah. If you don't want to rely on luck as much, you do have to get better at the game. Learn positioning, aim better, develop good timing and all that.

Otherwise, nothing will change for you.

It's just a matter of experience and what you do with it.   

 

I know that feel. I had some really good matches today but then RNGesus decided to ensure a lot of misses even when I lead well and at close range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23
[-ARP-]
Members
100 posts
5,830 battles

RNG is an aspect in most games these days, (at least games that require penetration, armor values, etc). But luck is the lesser side of it, skill definitely plays more into it than luck. My stats, ratings, etc have done nothing but go up up up since I started playing this game back in August, and thats due to skill. Learning curve may be steep in some aspects, but if you put the time in, learn where and when you are more likely to succeed in 'luck' situations, it'll pay off in the end. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,501
[WOLF7]
Members
12,601 posts

I believe the tinfoil hat crowd would say...."RNG will only go down when you spend enough money" :teethhappy:

IBTT

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
432
[MPIRE]
[MPIRE]
Beta Testers
1,821 posts
10,838 battles

Compared to WoT there is much less luck.

 

Damage and penetration is constant. Where WoT has +/-25% for those two factors on top of accuracy, WoWS only has accuracy rolls.

What you are describing sounds like multiple overpens. Along with the occasional poor RNG. Its likely your aiming too high, or too far ahead/behind your target.

 

The only "lucky rolls" will be freak citadel hits, from shots that otherwise should have missed. Otherwise everything tends to even out.

 

As for the get closer comments, what range do you usually fire from in your ships? Each ship had a different effective range so it'd be nice to know which ships as well. Perhaps that can shed some light on the issue?

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,065
[GWG]
Members
7,228 posts
14,042 battles

Yes, this is a game, but in Person-versus-person, you can't let the better players bully down on the older, weaker, slower ones.

You've got to give everyone a fair chance, and some a better chance to have a great game every now and then.

This is how you keep people around -- for that one memorable match where they carried the day.


 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
267
[KNCOL]
Members
553 posts
8,504 battles

There is both a skill factor and a RNG factor, with skill largely dictating your average performance compared to RNG. However, RNG does play its part by setting a skill ceiling. A player can fire AP against a broadside target numerous times and get different damage for each salvo. This is both a blessing and a curse. For one, if you happen to make a mistake and broadside, there is a good chance that you'll be spared from an instant-deletion. On the other hand, RNG could fail you and lose you a game. All ships are at the mercy of RNG, especially battleships. There have been countless times where I couldve done a comeback solo, yet lost because my shells just werent connecting. One salvo could get me 3 citadels, another a single overpen. Its frustrating to know that no matter how well your positioning and aim is, RNG will decide whether an enemy ship sinks immediately or if she takes numerous salvos and ends up sinking you while broadside. 

 

Its because of this that I can never say "well played" and mean it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,313
[0456]
Members
3,824 posts
10,091 battles

I think luck softens the difference between the good, bad and average skilled players. What really makes the difference in the title is situational awareness and knowledge of the mechanics. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,021
[KSC]
Clan Supertest Coordinator
5,246 posts
8,393 battles

I feel skill in this game is knowing how to best utilize luck to your advantage....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
3,284 posts

The game has a luck aspect, sure. But good players can use skill to minimize the luck required to do something. Otherwise, how would there be any unicum players?

So, yeah. If you don't want to rely on luck as much, you do have to get better at the game. Learn positioning, aim better, develop good timing and all that.

Otherwise, nothing will change for you.

It's just a matter of experience and what you do with it.   

 

Exactly this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
579
[PLPTV]
Members
1,457 posts
9,077 battles

ok WoWs is like Wot, they both have dispersion of shells, you have to aim, your targets are moving, shells bounce, shells do damage etc.  BUT...... I feel that WoWs is a lot more about lucky random rolls then in WoT. Ship guns can be on target and splash shells on both sides of a ship and out of atypical 9 to 12 gun ship have ZERO hits quite often.  So in WoWs I have to put up with misses because I misjudge a range and even when I am right in the middle of a ship I have to put up with misses even being on target.  In WoT if the tank is in the circle I at least know I am going to hit it as the circle represents the dispersion of the shell.  Now I know hiting a fast moving tank changes as you have to lead the tank as you would on most ships as they usually are moving 80% of the time.  Yet, I have had hits splash all around a ship that is stuck on an island or crashed into a friendly, so this should not be any different from hitting a stopped tank in WoT. 

 

Now both are arcade games and to some aspect thank goodness.  I would hate to have limited ammo and realistic hit rates and try and play (especially being a medium skilled player).  Yet I have ships that I hit supposedly 19 to 27% on most my cruisers and BBs.  (I would like to know that your percentage to hits are if you could.) Yet my damage is usually only 25k to 55k per battle.  I am looking to see if the random rolls are affecting players that might be truly a better player from others that may truly be getting the lucky rolls.  I am not trying to say that skill players do not deserve their due, but to see if luck plays a larger part in this game as well.

 

This ranked fight I can not get out of 15th (I did get as low as all marked on 14th to lose 6 in a row and then have a rash of horrible battles. I had two battles that I should not have lost a star but had no star to lose as I was 15th with no marks.  I have stopped playing the ranked fights because of this experience.   The last rank battle period I had a lot of good fights but I did not really compete or care what I ended with. I concentrated more on grinding and ARP missions etc.   This time I must have had a streak of 11 battles with 2 wins.   I truly feel that this does not really rate a player's skill at playing for two reasons.  One I am reliant on my teammates to play tactically. The other is this random computer roll for hits and damage.

 

We are subject to random rolls on hits, citadel hits and damage.  My AP shots seem to hit for 1k damage and many occasions I do not average 1k per hit with AP.  Lower lvl ships seemed to do better.   I seem to rarely get citadel hits and yet I seem to get hit with them VERY often from the very ship I am shooting at (IE we were at the same range)   Now that may be that I do not have time to go to youtube and watch the thousands of videos on how good a ship is or read this forum in depth.  This being the case I feel I am disadvantaged as I play ships I like for historical reasons or just I like the feel of the ship.

 

One of the missions wants us to hit enemy ships 200 times in one battle.  I have NEVER done that.  My Cleveland has had over 100 many time but no where close to 200. Is this a result of the wrong ship or just random computer rolls?  Is getting fewer citadel hits a matter of computer random rolls.  Are the fact it seems to me I am always on fire and cause fewer fires due to both ship selection and random rolls ( i have chosen ships with high percentages of fire and yet still get 1 to 4 fires started in a battle and yet it seems like I am constantly putting fires out on my ship!  Random Computer rolls?

 

Please trolls don't post as I will report you.  I am asking for a discussion of what people think and if so ideas that may help me get out of this rut of damage 25k to 50k per battle.  In previous post I was told to get "Closer"! yet when I try I get sunk real fast.  Yes I maneuver and not move in a straight line.  I have watched a few you tube battles and I really do not see them doing anything different from what I am trying.  

 

So is it really just lousy luck from random rolls and I should be happy that I am playing the same as these folks on youtube or is there just something I am missing?  Personally I am of the opinion it is bad luck.

 

 

PS for you stat lookers I have ships that I suck in and others that I seem to do well in (at least from a win /loss rate.)

 

Please share your thoughts and not "I need to learn to play the game."

 

So you don't sacrifice a goat every week to the RNG gods? If not, thats why your luck is so bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,313
[0456]
Members
3,824 posts
10,091 battles

Why do people quote pages of text? holy [edited]already. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
2,136 posts
5,764 battles

Well, I find that if I aim in certain places, I will be able to get citadels on certain ships. Yes, sometimes I get really wacky dispersion on some salvos, but if I aim right, I will be able to get the shots in where it matters. Much of the aiming depends very much on your awareness of what the target ship intends to do and timing your shot to land at the right time. Also, if you study up a little bit on the armour models of ships, you will be able to figure out the sweet spots to hit (Playing around in the training room also helps with placing shots).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
3,284 posts

ok WoWs is like Wot, they both have dispersion of shells, you have to aim, your targets are moving, shells bounce, shells do damage etc.  BUT...... I feel that WoWs is a lot more about lucky random rolls then in WoT. Ship guns can be on target and splash shells on both sides of a ship and out of atypical 9 to 12 gun ship have ZERO hits quite often.  So in WoWs I have to put up with misses because I misjudge a range and even when I am right in the middle of a ship I have to put up with misses even being on target.  In WoT if the tank is in the circle I at least know I am going to hit it as the circle represents the dispersion of the shell.  Now I know hiting a fast moving tank changes as you have to lead the tank as you would on most ships as they usually are moving 80% of the time.  Yet, I have had hits splash all around a ship that is stuck on an island or crashed into a friendly, so this should not be any different from hitting a stopped tank in WoT. 

 

Now both are arcade games and to some aspect thank goodness.  I would hate to have limited ammo and realistic hit rates and try and play (especially being a medium skilled player).  Yet I have ships that I hit supposedly 19 to 27% on most my cruisers and BBs.  (I would like to know that your percentage to hits are if you could.) Yet my damage is usually only 25k to 55k per battle.  I am looking to see if the random rolls are affecting players that might be truly a better player from others that may truly be getting the lucky rolls.  I am not trying to say that skill players do not deserve their due, but to see if luck plays a larger part in this game as well.

 

This ranked fight I can not get out of 15th (I did get as low as all marked on 14th to lose 6 in a row and then have a rash of horrible battles. I had two battles that I should not have lost a star but had no star to lose as I was 15th with no marks.  I have stopped playing the ranked fights because of this experience.   The last rank battle period I had a lot of good fights but I did not really compete or care what I ended with. I concentrated more on grinding and ARP missions etc.   This time I must have had a streak of 11 battles with 2 wins.   I truly feel that this does not really rate a player's skill at playing for two reasons.  One I am reliant on my teammates to play tactically. The other is this random computer roll for hits and damage.

 

We are subject to random rolls on hits, citadel hits and damage.  My AP shots seem to hit for 1k damage and many occasions I do not average 1k per hit with AP.  Lower lvl ships seemed to do better.   I seem to rarely get citadel hits and yet I seem to get hit with them VERY often from the very ship I am shooting at (IE we were at the same range)   Now that may be that I do not have time to go to youtube and watch the thousands of videos on how good a ship is or read this forum in depth.  This being the case I feel I am disadvantaged as I play ships I like for historical reasons or just I like the feel of the ship.

 

One of the missions wants us to hit enemy ships 200 times in one battle.  I have NEVER done that.  My Cleveland has had over 100 many time but no where close to 200. Is this a result of the wrong ship or just random computer rolls?  Is getting fewer citadel hits a matter of computer random rolls.  Are the fact it seems to me I am always on fire and cause fewer fires due to both ship selection and random rolls ( i have chosen ships with high percentages of fire and yet still get 1 to 4 fires started in a battle and yet it seems like I am constantly putting fires out on my ship!  Random Computer rolls?

 

Please trolls don't post as I will report you.  I am asking for a discussion of what people think and if so ideas that may help me get out of this rut of damage 25k to 50k per battle.  In previous post I was told to get "Closer"! yet when I try I get sunk real fast.  Yes I maneuver and not move in a straight line.  I have watched a few you tube battles and I really do not see them doing anything different from what I am trying.  

 

So is it really just lousy luck from random rolls and I should be happy that I am playing the same as these folks on youtube or is there just something I am missing?  Personally I am of the opinion it is bad luck.

 

PS for you stat lookers I have ships that I suck in and others that I seem to do well in (at least from a win /loss rate.)

 

Please share your thoughts and not "I need to learn to play the game."

 

Hmm, no one can stay lucky for a very long period of time, which is exactly what you suggest with a lot of your commentary. Luck varies from battle to battle and day to day. It's just.. not really possible.

 

Moving on, playing ships you like for historical reasons doesn't stop you from reading or watching guides. I prefer to read guides myself, and I'm fortunate that this community has such excellent guide-makers. I've benefited immensely from their guides and I'm very thankful. There's no reason that I can see to avoid them all. It won't ruin your experience of the game. You don't have to play the way they suggest. It's not an obligation. Read what they say and add what knowledge and understanding you like to your play.

 

When it really comes down to it, you have a lot of control over your play. I know it's not easy to accept that you're responsible for your individual results (and consequently your own suffering [however minor it may be]), but it's really the truth. That is why there are unicums, as River said. Some understand more than others, and it shows in their play.

 

Anyway, in short, I wholeheartedly recommend reading a guide or two. I started off about a month ago at a fairly high level because I read some guides. There a lot of excellent guides out there.

Edited by anonym_OlK73e329bMY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,721
[ABDA]
Beta Testers
17,536 posts
12,810 battles

There's an element of luck, sure.  However, there are a lot of aspects of the game which take a lot of skill.  Positioning, angling, and timing are hugely important and those are 100% skill based.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,842
[HINON]
Privateers, In AlfaTesters
7,775 posts
2,137 battles

*clears throat*

 

 

"I make my own luck"

 

:B

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
873
[BOTES]
Members
2,228 posts
8,498 battles

To be fair, OP said luck then skill, which is actually quite accurate. If you're lucky enough to have a team that can compete, skill determines the winner.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,945
[CNO]
Members
6,085 posts
18,572 battles

WOWS is analogous to poker.  It's not the hands you're dealt, but what you do with them that count.  The skill is in knowing the hands (knowing the match ups) and reading the players (interpreting the field) and making sound decisions (tactical execution).  Randomness (and luck) do indeed factor into play.  But there are very good poker players out there...and it ain't luck.  There are very good WOWS players out there...and it ain't luck.

 

With luck, I can beat the best poker player in the world (with one hand...or a few hands).  He will cook my goose over a night of play. Same goes for WOWS.  In any given game, I might best the best WOWS player in an engagement.  Over the course of many engagements, I'm toast. 

 

In a sea of randomness...skill bubbles to the top.

Edited by Soshi_Sone
  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
3,284 posts

WOWS is analogous to poker.  It's not the hands you're dealt, but what you do with them that count.  The skill is in knowing the hands (knowing the match ups) and reading the players (interpreting the field) and making sound decisions (tactical execution).  Randomness (and luck) do indeed factor into play.  But there are very good poker players out there...and it ain't luck.  There are very good WOWS players out there...and it ain't luck.

 

With luck, I can beat the best poker player in the world (with one hand...or a few hands).  He will cook my goose over a night of play. Same goes for WOWS.  In any given game, I might best the best WOWS player in an engagement.  Over the course of many engagements, I'm toast. 

 

In a sea of randomness...skill bubbles to the top.

 

Well said. =)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×