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Detonation and Detonation Flags - Useful Changes.

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Currently detonation really serves little purpose in game play. People's argument pro detonation is usually "well it happens so rarely!" and/or "put a flag on". If detonation is so trivial it happens so rarely, then why bother even having it? Put a flag on requires the players to be able to obtain the flag consistently, and if every one has flag on, then the mechanic is moot.

 

To make detonation contribute more to game play the flag should be changed to shells that are fired more than 10 km apart cannot detonate the ship. But offers no protection to ships in close quarter combat. BBs should have the range of beyond 5 km to reduce cruisers benefiting too much from the change. 

 

This way, the detonation mechanic offers an incentive for players to get close enough to the target to be able to aim reliably at the magazines and offers reward for good marksmanship. 

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It technically should be the other way since magazine detonations are far more likely to occur from plunging fire as it has more capability to penetrate deeper into the ship where the magazines are. At close ranges, the magazines are out of the zones where the fall of the shell would be able to affect.

 

To show this, here is the magazine layout of the King George V class of battleships. Note that the magazines are far below the waterline (The dot-dash line above "1 3/4 IN to 1 1/2 IN").

 

KdB1qP6.jpg

Even though the magazines are below the water, it still is possible to detonate a ship by hitting it in the turret or barbette which would cause a flash to travel down to the magazines (British BCs at Jutland).

 

In addition, I find that torpedo hits are far more likely to generate a detonation than shell hits do.

Edited by Admiral_Franz_von_Hipper

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Stupid pointless mechanic is stupid. I find the fact that you can equip a signal to nullify the mechanic hilarious... it makes Detonations asinine.

 

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I guess WG should remove ammo racks from WoT as well then?

 

Just because something works in WoT doesn't mean it works in WoWs.

 

WoT is a fast paced game. You can que up and play a game and be done in maybe a third of the time it takes for the same in WoWs. WoWs games are long, getting detonated has more impact in this game in comparison to WoT. Heaven forbid you are in a Division, you just [edited]sit there for a half an hour doing nothing.... 

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Just because something works in WoT doesn't mean it works in WoWs.

 

WoT is a fast paced game. You can que up and play a game and be done in maybe a third of the time it takes for the same in WoWs. WoWs games are long, getting detonated has more impact in this game in comparison to WoT. Heaven forbid you are in a Division, you just [edited]sit there for a half an hour doing nothing.... 

 

Exaggeration is exaggerated.
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I guess WG should remove ammo racks from WoT as well then?

 

Detonation in WoT rewards skilled players that knows where the ammo racks are in a tank. Tanks can also aim accurately to ensure hitting the ammo rack has little to do with luck.

 

In WoWS, it's shot gun, and one of the pellet of a shotgun blast hits the magazine and detonates. This infuriates people, because it's largely due to chance.

 

If detonation is to remain it should be more in the player's control.

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Stop getting excited over a mechanic responsible for less than 1% of all the kills I've seen in 4600 or so matched.

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Stop getting excited over a mechanic responsible for less than 1% of all the kills I've seen in 4600 or so matched.

 

It doesn't matter how rare the are, the mechanic is still stupid. It's RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG. More random instakills are good for competitive play though, right?
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Stop getting excited over a mechanic responsible for less than 1% of all the kills I've seen in 4600 or so matched.

 

If it were only the individual who suffered, that would be ok. But early dets, especially of capping DDs and BBs, as well as late dets of any ship, savagely impair a team's chance of winning. Though the chances of any individual ship detonating via WGs ahistorical mechanics are low, the cumulative chance of a ship detonating in a match is high enough that they are not uncommon. I've lost zillions of games to dets, and I am sick of it.

 

Dets are bad for play, and completely unethical.

 

The WG det model is completely ahistorical. Shell dets to instant death for BBs occurred only with the british BCs, which had an anomalous design problem. If they had been better designed, there would be no support at all for the WOWs det model, since no other modern battleship was ever insta-detonated by a shell hit, except perhaps the Bretagne under highly anomalous circumstances. No BB has ever been insta-detonated by a single torp hit on the bow, but that's a common occurrence in WOWs. That's wrong.

 

What WG should do is respec the det model so it isn't a totally unethical det for no reason except RNG. Instead, it could make the chance of a det rise as fires persist on a ship, and it should make the chance of insta-kill rise with the number of torps that strike a ship, starting from zero with one torp. That would be something a bit more historical, since many ships were killed by fires spreading, but almost no modern ships by instant death via shell hit, and also make det chance amenable to player input, which would make it less unethical. 

 

But dets exist solely and only to speed up play by arbitrarily removing ships. That's what makes them so evil. They have nothing to do with making the game more enjoyable.

Edited by Taichunger
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If it were only the individual who suffered, that would be ok. But early dets, especially of capping DDs and BBs, as well as late dets of any ship, savagely impair a team's chance of winning. Though the chances of any individual ship detonating via WGs ahistorical mechanics are low, the cumulative chance of a ship detonating in a match is high enough that they are not uncommon. I've lost zillions of games to dets, and I am sick of it.

 

Dets are bad for play, and completely unethical.

 

The WG det model is completely ahistorical. Shell dets to instant death for BBs occurred only with the british BCs, which had an anomalous design problem. If they had been better designed, there would be no support at all for the WOWs det model, since no other modern battleship was ever insta-detonated by a shell hit, except perhaps the Bretagne under highly anomalous circumstances. No BB has ever been insta-detonated by a single torp hit on the bow, but that's a common occurrence in WOWs. That's wrong.

 

What WG should do is respec the det model so it isn't a totally unethical det for no reason except RNG. Instead, it could make the chance of a det rise as fires persist on a ship, and it should make the chance of insta-kill rise with the number of torps that strike a ship, starting from zero with one torp. That would be something a bit more historical, since many ships were killed by fires spreading, but almost no modern ships by instant death via shell hit, and also make det chance amenable to player input, which would make it less unethical. 

 

But dets exist solely and only to speed up play by arbitrarily removing ships. That's what makes them so evil. They have nothing to do with making the game more enjoyable.

 

Well said.

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Stop getting excited over a mechanic responsible for less than 1% of all the kills I've seen in 4600 or so matched.

 

1% is an average across all ships. First, CV cannot detonate. Second, CA/BB detonate significantly less than DD. I experienced my first BB detonation a few days ago when a single Kiev torpedo hit the bow of my Gneisenau. Without using Magazine Mod 1 or det flags, the real detonation rate on DD is ~5%. That's a much larger problem.

 

Detonations can be skill oriented by causing excessive damage to the magazine -> increasing det chance, but the single shell/torp detonations don't belong in the game.

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the real detonation rate on DD is ~5%

 

i was seeing somewhere near 10% in DDs, with no sigs(buffs or det flags, nothing) and no Mag Mod 1

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So buy JC flags and quit complaining.

 

Ethics? Except when smashing belongings, nobody's gotten hurt over it. You lose nothing important from Detonation save for a few odds matches where it made the win/loss difference, and as that's out of your control, why are you choosing to let it make you mad?

 

Intentionally Detonating is near impossible because of the shotgun RNG, plus it's so rare that it's much faster (and safer) going for fires, torps, pens, and citadels to sink the ship.

 

If it's really a problem, fire up the training room, setup some ships you figure susceptible to dets, choose a rapid-fire like ATL (MB) or Derzki (torps), and frag many stationary bots. Do this for, say, 600-800 bots, and record how many were Detonated from aiming at their magazines. How many rounds/torps fired beforehand?

 

Otherwise you're crying.

 

4553 battles. I've been Detonated 28 times. Just laugh when it happens and move on. Nice to be glass of water than a bottle of Cola someone shook very hard.

 

But keep crying. Being offended is a reason you play the game, right? Means your self-control here has a lot of room for improvement.

 

 

1% is an average across all ships. First, CV cannot detonate. Second, CA/BB detonate significantly less than DD. I experienced my first BB detonation a few days ago when a single Kiev torpedo hit the bow of my Gneisenau. Without using Magazine Mod 1 or det flags, the real detonation rate on DD is ~5%. That's a much larger problem.

 

Detonations can be skill oriented by causing excessive damage to the magazine -> increasing det chance, but the single shell/torp detonations don't belong in the game.

 

DDs are smaller, of course there's less ship to eat damage to protect the mag. Nothing new. With smoke and stealth and best agility available, hardly a big deal.

 

Haven't seen a DD detonated since the last Tashkent I hit before he smoked. Of the total DD matches played since mag mod became available, how many had DD detonations? While at it, why not see if data on which lines Detonated the most? Nobody's said yet if there's a hidden bias there against non-Russian DD, for example.

 

 

i was seeing somewhere near 10% in DDs, with no sigs(buffs or det flags, nothing) and no Mag Mod 1

Still meta for DDs to take MB mod over magazine mod? Detonation is still extremely rare in the matches I've played.

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One thing I do not like is you get flags only once a day.

Once I got detonated twice in two successive battles. Second time, no flags. That is wrong. You should get compensation every time.

 

As per frequency, I have not been detonated lately but today I caused 3 detonations, in three battles in one day. Seems wrong.

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Still meta for DDs to take MB mod over magazine mod? Detonation is still extremely rare in the matches I've played.

i probably missed the memo, never ran it and choose the one that buffs modules survival(whatever its called). It has to be the reason why i was exploding once a day... 

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So buy JC flags and quit complaining.

 

Ethics? Except when smashing belongings, nobody's gotten hurt over it. You lose nothing important from Detonation save for a few odds matches where it made the win/loss difference, and as that's out of your control, why are you choosing to let it make you mad?

 

Intentionally Detonating is near impossible because of the shotgun RNG, plus it's so rare that it's much faster (and safer) going for fires, torps, pens, and citadels to sink the ship.

 

If it's really a problem, fire up the training room, setup some ships you figure susceptible to dets, choose a rapid-fire like ATL (MB) or Derzki (torps), and frag many stationary bots. Do this for, say, 600-800 bots, and record how many were Detonated from aiming at their magazines. How many rounds/torps fired beforehand?

 

Otherwise you're crying.

 

4553 battles. I've been Detonated 28 times. Just laugh when it happens and move on. Nice to be glass of water than a bottle of Cola someone shook very hard.

 

But keep crying. Being offended is a reason you play the game, right? Means your self-control here has a lot of room for improvement.

 

 

DDs are smaller, of course there's less ship to eat damage to protect the mag. Nothing new. With smoke and stealth and best agility available, hardly a big deal.

 

Haven't seen a DD detonated since the last Tashkent I hit before he smoked. Of the total DD matches played since mag mod became available, how many had DD detonations? While at it, why not see if data on which lines Detonated the most? Nobody's said yet if there's a hidden bias there against non-Russian DD, for example.

 

Still meta for DDs to take MB mod over magazine mod? Detonation is still extremely rare in the matches I've played.

 

I don't know why you bothered to type all that when you're entire argument can be boiled down to "don't be a crybaby". Why don't you defend the mechanic on its own merits instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks. Tell us why you think this is a good mechanic, why you think it adds to the game, how you think the game would be worse off with out it. This is a common tactic in detonation threads, people attack the complainers instead of defending the mechanic so we never get anywhere, never come to an agreement, never understand each other.
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So buy JC flags and quit complaining.

 

Ethics? Except when smashing belongings, nobody's gotten hurt over it. You lose nothing important from Detonation save for a few odds matches where it made the win/loss difference, and as that's out of your control, why are you choosing to let it make you mad?

 

Intentionally Detonating is near impossible because of the shotgun RNG, plus it's so rare that it's much faster (and safer) going for fires, torps, pens, and citadels to sink the ship.

 

If it's really a problem, fire up the training room, setup some ships you figure susceptible to dets, choose a rapid-fire like ATL (MB) or Derzki (torps), and frag many stationary bots. Do this for, say, 600-800 bots, and record how many were Detonated from aiming at their magazines. How many rounds/torps fired beforehand?

 

Otherwise you're crying.

 

4553 battles. I've been Detonated 28 times. Just laugh when it happens and move on. Nice to be glass of water than a bottle of Cola someone shook very hard.

 

But keep crying. Being offended is a reason you play the game, right? Means your self-control here has a lot of room for improvement.

 

 

DDs are smaller, of course there's less ship to eat damage to protect the mag. Nothing new. With smoke and stealth and best agility available, hardly a big deal.

 

Haven't seen a DD detonated since the last Tashkent I hit before he smoked. Of the total DD matches played since mag mod became available, how many had DD detonations? While at it, why not see if data on which lines Detonated the most? Nobody's said yet if there's a hidden bias there against non-Russian DD, for example.

 

Still meta for DDs to take MB mod over magazine mod? Detonation is still extremely rare in the matches I've played.

 

Buy JC flags? Care to show me where one goes to buy them? And why should I give money to negate a [edited]mechanic even if there was a way to buy them in the first place? 

 

And, for the record, I was able to detonate four out of 12 Omahas with Myoko in the training room. Much more than 1%.

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Detonations happen rarely Ive only been Detonated Twice in 8 months, of course the Two were this week ...Wows works in mysterious ways ... Detonated by a dive bomber and later another Cruiser .. at 10 k .. saving the flags for next ranked

Not s bad idea though

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DDs are smaller, of course there's less ship to eat damage to protect the mag. Nothing new. With smoke and stealth and best agility available, hardly a big deal.

 

Haven't seen a DD detonated since the last Tashkent I hit before he smoked. Of the total DD matches played since mag mod became available, how many had DD detonations? While at it, why not see if data on which lines Detonated the most? Nobody's said yet if there's a hidden bias there against non-Russian DD, for example.

 

Still meta for DDs to take MB mod over magazine mod? Detonation is still extremely rare in the matches I've played.

 

My point was simply that the base rate is too high. I switched all my DDs to MM1 during the module sale a month ago. Since then, my det rate has already decreased significantly to ~4.5% in DD. 41 DD detonations/916 rounds. Never used JC.
Edited by awildseaking

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You all know how detonations work right?

 

ship magazines have a certain HP and if the damage they take is over their HP threshold, you have a chance to detonate.

DDs seem to have magazines with low HP

DDs tend to not bounce any shells

DDs have less space between outer hull and magazine

ergo, it's much easier detonating in a DD than it is a cruiser or BB

 

In fact, you are more likely to detonate by going bow on, as AP shells will have a chance to travel through more than one magazine.

 

Also, CVs are completely unaffected by detonations, because this is fair and balanced™.

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It technically should be the other way since magazine detonations are far more likely to occur from plunging fire as it has more capability to penetrate deeper into the ship where the magazines are. At close ranges, the magazines are out of the zones where the fall of the shell would be able to affect.

 

To show this, here is the magazine layout of the King George V class of battleships. Note that the magazines are far below the waterline (The dot-dash line above "1 3/4 IN to 1 1/2 IN").

 

KdB1qP6.jpg

Even though the magazines are below the water, it still is possible to detonate a ship by hitting it in the turret or barbette which would cause a flash to travel down to the magazines (British BCs at Jutland).

 

In addition, I find that torpedo hits are far more likely to generate a detonation than shell hits do.

 

Not entirely acurratte. In the KGV's for example there was no armour between the belt and the magazines so a shell that detonated behind the belt could still send red hot splinters into the magazine with predictable consequences. Vanguard received extra anti-fragmentation bulkheads around her magazines for that very reason.

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I don't know why you bothered to type all that when you're entire argument can be boiled down to "don't be a crybaby". Why don't you defend the mechanic on its own merits instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks. Tell us why you think this is a good mechanic, why you think it adds to the game, how you think the game would be worse off with out it. This is a common tactic in detonation threads, people attack the complainers instead of defending the mechanic so we never get anywhere, never come to an agreement, never understand each other.

 

Thanks. I will look forward to the explanation of why detonations are a good mechanic.

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I don't know why you bothered to type all that when you're entire argument can be boiled down to "don't be a crybaby". Why don't you defend the mechanic on its own merits instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks. Tell us why you think this is a good mechanic, why you think it adds to the game, how you think the game would be worse off with out it. This is a common tactic in detonation threads, people attack the complainers instead of defending the mechanic so we never get anywhere, never come to an agreement, never understand each other.

 

If I misspoke, I will own up to it. Part of humility. I deal with reality, not butthurt emotions, whereas here's you, wanting your butthurt soothed by game changed to your liking. Redirect my emotions to productive use, instead of being their slave. Happier that way instead of looking for something to offend me.

 

As to my take on Detonation? Just a mechanic. Nothing good nor bad about it. Happens so rarely it's nothing to get excited about. Simply taught myself to laugh if it happens. Previously it was a "wow!" such as months ago when a Yammy shot my Mogami in the turret magazine and I detonated from 2/3 HP.

 

Rest of the arguments I don't care about. Since you have such a beef with it, at least have the decency to fit it in context of the entire picture so I know your opinion is serious. Right now it's a eggshell without a chick.

 

Ad hominen is a waste of time bro. I seem to remember saying:

 

Intentionally Detonating is near impossible because of the shotgun RNG, plus it's so rare that it's much faster (and safer) going for fires, torps, pens, and citadels to sink the ship.

 

If it's really a problem, fire up the training room, setup some ships you figure susceptible to dets, choose a rapid-fire like ATL (MB) or Derzki (torps), and frag many stationary bots. Do this for, say, 600-800 bots, and record how many were Detonated from aiming at their magazines. How many rounds/torps fired beforehand?

 

Otherwise you're crying.

 

4553 battles. I've been Detonated 28 times. Just laugh when it happens and move on. Nice to be glass of water than a bottle of Cola someone shook very hard.

 

But keep crying. Being offended is a reason you play the game, right? Means your self-control here has a lot of room for improvement.

 

I pointed out a need for showing an informed opinion. Tunnel vision on Detonation merely proves you don't know that it has a context and don't necessarily care. How many rounds to cause Detonation on average? How many triggered det RNG? Show some raw maths too. Infrequent 1-shot doesn't make a big difference most battles anyway, and since pure RNG, who'd bet on it to turn the tide?

 

 

Buy JC flags? Care to show me where one goes to buy them? And why should I give money to negate a [edited]mechanic even if there was a way to buy them in the first place? 

 

And, for the record, I was able to detonate four out of 12 Omahas with Myoko in the training room. Much more than 1%.

 

And if WG can satisfy this need, what's stopping you trying to get them to fill it? They don't have to say Detonation was a problem, just that if too paranoid about it, here's a flag you can run (Exterior tab) that makes them impossible for the ship that waves it. Right now no demand for them, so of course they're not in the shop.

 

4 omahas out of 12 is only a drop in the big rain bucket. Run it on DDs and BBs too. All lines. What's Detonation likelihood, say, from Myoko hitting a Bismarck's nose with torps? All the raw data is exhausting to gather, but need that credible basis to establish if Detonation is really a big deal realistically or just in your head. Check all cruisers and DDs, and BBs too. I'm interested in at least 500 poor bots, including how many Detonated and how many MB/torps it took.

 

I forgot this earlier, but do it against live bots that are dodging. How many MB rounds? Torps? And all that. Will be tiring, but some hard data to indicate how much of a problem it is or isn't.

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