CrazyHorse_Denver

Any word on a new French premium cruiser?

  • You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.

45 posts in this topic

 

To take the point even further: If the French Navy under Comte de Grasse doesn't defeat the Royal Navy at the Battle of the Chesapeake in 1781, British General Cornwallis is not trapped and forced to surrender at Yorktown (which effectively ended the American Revolution).

 

 

 

Which reminds me that the cruiser De Grasse might be a contender for a premium, despite being finished post war.  She would be like a French Atlanta.

 

So much peu peu!!

 

QKltgvm.jpg


1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 ​I wanted French DDs first. Speed demons from hell. But I'm a DD main so I'm biased. 

 

But it doesn't make sense to release a French premium BB months in advance only to release a cruiser line first. :amazed:

 

 

I think the French surrender jokes are a bit overplayed due to WW2.  It's kinda the same with the "Italians are crap at fighting" joke that's done as well due to the inept leadership of the Italian military during that era.

 

Those who know history should know that the French (Vichy and Free French) fought with great distinction during the war.  Heck!  The partisans also should be thrown into that list since they helped pave the way for the Allied invasion that ultimately defeated Germany.

 

 

 

That's pretty much the reason why WoT has no interest in adding Italian tanks. Instead they add Swedish, Czechs and copy/paste Chinese. :facepalm:

 

I think the jokes are further aggravated by the fact that the French lost another major conflict, particularly the humiliating defeat at Dien Bien Phu. France will never be rid of this stigma.


0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But it doesn't make sense to release a French premium BB months in advance only to release a cruiser line first. :amazed:

 

Well, unless you actually look at Dunkerque and realize that a capt specced for cruisers will do fine in her since she's closer to a battlecruiser anyway....

 

Not to mention we're getting French BBs this year too. 


0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, unless you actually look at Dunkerque and realize that a capt specced for cruisers will do fine in her since she's closer to a battlecruiser anyway....

 

How do you spec yours?

 

I find with wanting to bow-on a lot plus a giant superstructure fire is a major threat, and no one wants a charred baguette. I take a lot of skills I wouldn't necessarily take on a cruiser - Fire Prevention, SI, BoS all not necessary on cruisers at least at lower tiers. I also don't bother with CE which is a cruiser must-have. I don't bother with AFT either as both secondaries and AA start at a bad point, with Def AA. cruisers may do better than the Dunk.


0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dunkerque's AA is poor, her DP guns, which have very good range, make up most of the punch... So I've actually been thinking about slapping MFCAA on the captain...


0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How do you spec yours?

I find with wanting to bow-on a lot plus a giant superstructure fire is a major threat, and no one wants a charred baguette. I take a lot of skills I wouldn't necessarily take on a cruiser - Fire Prevention, SI, BoS all not necessary on cruisers at least at lower tiers. I also don't bother with CE which is a cruiser must-have. I don't bother with AFT either as both secondaries and AA start at a bad point, with Def AA. cruisers may do better than the Dunk.

 

Full disclosure, I don't have one. But looking at the ship, it is workable. Ideal? No. But starting a new capt and training them on cruiser skills using the Dunk is not going to have a terrible effect on her even if it isn't the optimal build. Sort of like how I use my Graf Spee to train both DD and BB captains for Germany even if neither has the optimal build for a Graf Spee. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Full disclosure, I don't have one. But looking at the ship, it is workable. Ideal? No.

 

That's fair enough, it's not like Dunk's unplayable with a low point captain, just likely a lot more painful. Now I have a decent Dunk skipper I'm slightly loathe to start grinding up a preparatory cruiser skipper. I really do enjoy Dunk, and all the more for being set on fire a little less frequently...

 

It may be worth cracking on, especially as I'm not quite sure for instance if it's worth speccing for AA at all on these cruisers, or torpedo reload, or of La Gal + IFHE might be something rather spectacular. Maybe just build a bank of skill points and ensure you get to 10 and CE sooner rather than later...


0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would you make French-surrender jokes about the French Navy which had elements that continued to distinguish itself and fight against the Axis throughout the whole duration of the war even against the express wishes of the Vichy French government?

 

Having been guilty of making such jokes in my ignorant past, I had to alter my opinions substantially when I took the time to educate myself on the topic.  If there is nothing else, two words: Bir Hakeim.

 

Going back to the Napoleonic Wars, the French Navy got a bad rap for always losing to the Brits... but what I find to be rather telling is how persistent they were even after a constant, almost nonstop string of defeats.  And few Anglophile historians have ever commented on how the French reforms in that era, in areas such as the organization of ships companies, were copied by the British after the end of the war.

 

At least at the very start of World War II, the Allied plan always intended to be the French Navy to be the counterbalance for the Italians.  The rapid end of the ground campaign meant that the Marine Nationale never got much of the opportunity to fight the war they'd been trained and equipped to fight.  Even even afterward, in battles like Ko Chang and Ist, the French fought well.


0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Having been guilty of making such jokes in my ignorant past, I had to alter my opinions substantially when I took the time to educate myself on the topic.  If there is nothing else, two words: Bir Hakeim.

 

Going back to the Napoleonic Wars, the French Navy got a bad rap for always losing to the Brits... but what I find to be rather telling is how persistent they were even after a constant, almost nonstop string of defeats.  And few Anglophile historians have ever commented on how the French reforms in that era, in areas such as the organization of ships companies, were copied by the British after the end of the war.

 

At least at the very start of World War II, the Allied plan always intended to be the French Navy to be the counterbalance for the Italians.  The rapid end of the ground campaign meant that the Marine Nationale never got much of the opportunity to fight the war they'd been trained and equipped to fight.  Even even afterward, in battles like Ko Chang and Ist, the French fought well.

 

Historically speaking the US attitude to the French would be completely foreign to an American pre-ww1. The French where much admired and I think a lot of the current feeling really comes from de Gaulle's efforts policies and efforts to find a place in the sun for a post war France. The French and Americans being just a little too much alike in many ways. What brothers don't constantly get pissed at each other like we do?

 

As I've mentioned elsewhere there is an entire second half to the Battle of France that is pretty much ignored because it's Dunkerque and Britain stands alone in the minds of many. If the British always won why is Normandy not still a department of England? :P


0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As usual: :)

 

Edgar Quinet please!

 

thadvc2.jpg

 

With the frequency I've been bringing this ship up, y'all probably think I have a smokestacks fetish by now...  Well, not only does she have a unique look, but a uniform main battery arrangement that was rare for pre-WW1 Armored Cruisers.  Along with SMS Blucher, she'd be one of the only ships of that type that could work with the current control scheme - without suffering from the same issues as Mikasa.

 

If WG offers Edgar Quinet as a premium:

16apl6e.jpg


1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

There is a question if the Tier 6 La Galissonniere would get the US refits and modifications her sisters did because the actual ship didn't and didn't survive long enough.  Three of the class got scuttled including La Galissonniere herself.  As such she may only be outfitted right up to the latest French AP and HE shells, which is a decent 870 mps.

 

Other three class members, Georges Leygues, Gloire and Montcalm, rejoined the Allied side, and were refitted in the US with AA, radar and the main cannons modified to use 6" USN shells, namely those you see in the Cleveland, the 47kg HE shell and the 59 kg AP shell.  The cruisers shoot the HE shell at 900 mps, and the heavier AP shell at 840 mps, the latter is considerable since the Cleveland shoots the same shell only at 762 mps.  Meaning the ships shoot the USN shells without the fancy arcs.

 

As such, there is enough differentiation among the ships so that you can use La Galissonniere in her original French configurations as the tree ship, then the US refitted cruisers as the premiums on the same tier.  As for camouflage, Georges Leygues and Montcalm got USN style camouflages and colors, but the Gloire still retained her Zebra camouflage that's the inspiration to a similar premium camouflage used in the game.  It is for that reason why I think Gloire, which also has a name that is easier to remember, and easier to sound of, could and would be the Tier 6 French light cruiser premium.  Oh not to mention, the Gloire did test out to have a 9 rounds per minute RoF so you have a lore based reason to use that number.  So the La Galissonniere could be potentially shooting at 8 rounds a minute, but the Gloire can reach out up to 9 rounds a minute.

 

Emile Bertin would also rejoin the Allies and got refitted with USN ammunition.  Since the 47kg HE shell used on the Cleveland is the same HE shell on the Omaha, that also means the Emile Bertin would be firing the same shell as the Omaha does, with a slight loss in muzzle velocity, 900 mps on the Emile Bertin and 914 mps on the Omaha.  The difference is the Bertin could broadside with 8 guns instead of seven, while RoF is up to the developers but I am feeling they would use around 8 rpm as an average for light cruisers, and 8 rpm was the planned or theoritical RPM for these guns.  The Emile Bertin has a rather unusual layout for guns, as she only has three turrets, but eight guns --- achieved with two triple mounted turrets and a superfiring turret in the front with a dual mount.  Despite not being a premium I suspect she will get the USN shells even as a tree ship, though as the final modification on her tech tree upgrades.

 

 

Edited by Eisennagel

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Emile Bertin would also rejoin the Allies and got refitted with USN ammunition.  Since the 47kg HE shell used on the Cleveland is the same HE shell on the Omaha, that also means the Emile Bertin would be firing the same shell as the Omaha does, with a slight loss in muzzle velocity, 900 mps on the Emile Bertin and 914 mps on the Omaha.  The difference is the Bertin could broadside with 8 guns instead of seven, while RoF is up to the developers but I am feeling they would use around 8 rpm as an average for light cruisers, and 8 rpm was the planned or theoritical RPM for these guns.  The Emile Bertin has a rather unusual layout for guns, as she only has three turrets, but eight guns --- achieved with two triple mounted turrets and a superfiring turret in the front with a dual mount.  Despite not being a premium I suspect she will get the USN shells even as a tree ship, though as the final modification on her tech tree upgrades.

 

I think the Emile Bertin lost her central gun on 'B' turret during a refit (possibly to offset the addition of radar and other topweight).  I have seen photos of her with all nine guns still installed.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Based on the datamine stats, Emile Bertin and the La Galissonniere tree ships didn't get the USN ammo, only the 1937 French one, which has a heavy shell of 57kg with 870 mps.  That's heavier than all the light cruiser shells but the USN AP one on the Cleveland but travels at a much higher muzzle velocity.

 

This opens the possibility we may either see Montcalm-Georges Leygues-Gloire vs. De Grasse for a premium light cruiser, though the other three ships will be in Tier 6 and De Grasse with her post war, 16 x 5"/54 guns (uses the same ammo as the USN 5"/54 and has similar ballistic characteristics) will be on Tier 7.

 

However, given that the Atlanta has been pulled out of sales, its not likely we may see a French Atlanta, as WG might be trying to move away from this cruiser type at the moment.

 

Pulling the USN ammo out of the tree and putting it into a La Galissonniere premium might be the idea to differentiate the premium from the tree ship.  Of the three cruisers, there are differences in the AA suite among them, but the most important is that the Gloire in particular, has a revised ammo supply system that pushes RoF to 9 rounds per minute, which can possibly further differentiate the ship from the tree ship.

 

La Galissonniere as current game stats

HE

55 kg, 870 mps, 8 rounds per minute

AP

57 kg, 870 mps, 8 rounds per minute

 

Gloire as proposed for the game based after her US refit

HE

47 kg, 900 mps, 9 rounds a minute

AP

59 kg, 840 mps, 9 rounds a minute

 

And then you have the camouflage issue, the Gloire gets her historic zebra stripe camo, while Montcalm and Georges Leygues got repainted with USN style colors and camo pattern.  Finally you also have a name that is just easier to remember and say, making it more marketable, as her name means "Glory".

 

 

Edited by Eisennagel

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

That's fair enough, it's not like Dunk's unplayable with a low point captain, just likely a lot more painful. Now I have a decent Dunk skipper I'm slightly loathe to start grinding up a preparatory cruiser skipper. I really do enjoy Dunk, and all the more for being set on fire a little less frequently...

 

It may be worth cracking on, especially as I'm not quite sure for instance if it's worth speccing for AA at all on these cruisers, or torpedo reload, or of La Gal + IFHE might be something rather spectacular. Maybe just build a bank of skill points and ensure you get to 10 and CE sooner rather than later...

 

It's actually not too bad.  I put my usual captain in reserve and started training up a new French captain for the upcoming cruisers.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This opens the possibility we may either see Montcalm-Georges Leygues-Gloire vs. De Grasse for a premium light cruiser, though the other three ships will be in Tier 6 and De Grasse with her post war, 16 x 5"/54 guns (uses the same ammo as the USN 5"/54 and has similar ballistic characteristics) will be on Tier 7.

 

However, given that the Atlanta has been pulled out of sales, its not likely we may see a French Atlanta, as WG might be trying to move away from this cruiser type at the moment.

 

My personal guess would be to see a premium tier 6 Suffren (or possibly a tier 5 Duquesne). It avoids an outright 'clone' situation - rather than having the rate of fire of La Galissoniere, the Suffren would get a more potent alpha strike.  Yet you'd still have the fragility and maneuverability native to the early French cruisers, and thus have a degree of synergy with the rest of the line as a whole.

 

I'd totally buy a premium tier 6 Gloire, though - in dazzle or without.  (Although I confess some preference for the Georges Leygues - or the 'Gorgeous Legs', as the Americans nicknamed the ship.  Just for the anticipation of hearing Jingles mangle the name in his review...)


0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This opens the possibility we may either see Montcalm-Georges Leygues-Gloire vs. De Grasse for a premium light cruiser, though the other three ships will be in Tier 6 and De Grasse with her post war, 16 x 5"/54 guns (uses the same ammo as the USN 5"/54 and has similar ballistic characteristics) will be on Tier 7.

 

De Grasse would really have to be T8 seeing as she's like Atlanta except better in nearly every way (other than lack of torps).

 

 


0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My personal guess would be to see a premium tier 6 Suffren (or possibly a tier 5 Duquesne). It avoids an outright 'clone' situation - rather than having the rate of fire of La Galissoniere, the Suffren would get a more potent alpha strike.  Yet you'd still have the fragility and maneuverability native to the early French cruisers, and thus have a degree of synergy with the rest of the line as a whole.

 

My money's on Suffren as well. I was a bit surprised that it didn't wind up in the tree at tier 7, with Algerie at 8 as the closest European contemporary to Hipper.

 

--Helms


0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must admit I'm not particularly surprised that Algerie is not a tier 8.  While it's the closest European equivalent to the Hipper (jointly with the Zaras), the German ship displaced (if I recall correctly) about 25% more on full load.  That's going to give the German ship an edge in overall quality, and I think it would have made a mediocre tier 8 without a bit of ahistorical buffing.

 

To me, the four Suffren class ships would feel similarly over-tiered as tier 7s, although I really feel they could make a fair tier 6 premium.  Since there's four of them in class, it wouldn't be unreasonable to have one as a premium and one as a standard progression ship on an alternative line.  (The same could similarly be said about one of the other La Galissonniere class ships, such as Gloire or Georges Leygues, as alternatives to the current vessels.)

 

Regrettably, my wallet isn't ready for all of the interesting premiums that I still want to buy (Scharnhorst and Kutuzov) let alone the ones that have been leaked (hello, Hood).

 

But I do, at least, have a ten point and six-point French captain waiting eagerly to drive something other than my showpony Dunkerque!


0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

One cannot compare the Algerie to the Hipper for one simple reason: the French 8" guns are simply not in the same class the Hipper's.  For that matter, the French 8" AP shell seems to blow --- low muzzle velocity and loopy archs --- with only 820 mps.  The 8" HE shell is more decent, at 850 mps.   The Hipper shoots shells at 925 mps.  

 

Furthermore, the French light cruisers have a 6" guns have a better muzzle velocity --- 870 mps --- compared to the 8" guns.  Couple that with a superior firing rate, the fact that when you have triple mounted guns, you got more clustered shots, a hull that is far better protected --- the La Galissonniere and sisters are just going to run rings over the Suffren, which is poorly armored and overall has weaker guns.  The better alpha will not compensate for a killer combination of RoF and muzzle velocity.  


1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.