Target acquisition system mod 1

[ReddNekk]

Is the 20% increase to the acquisition range of torpedoes added to the 25 % of Vigilance?

[ckupf]

Yes.

[thehelmsman]

Still a really poor choice compared to Concealment.

 

--Helms

[templar627]

I think it depends on the ship. Some ships could really use the extra torp beats instead of detection.

[Vossie]

Still a really poor choice compared to Concealment.

 

--Helms

 

not if your in a german bb. i would take seeing the torps early to concealment any day. your gonna get seen and shot at. but if you can see those torps from a little further away, you have a chance of missing em all. my 0.02

[HazeGrayUnderway]

 

not if your in a german bb. i would take seeing the torps early to concealment any day. your gonna get seen and shot at. but if you can see those torps from a little further away, you have a chance of missing em all. my 0.02

 

It's all a tradeoff.  CSM1 to have good detection ranges makes it easier to fade away when you're getting focus fired.  But then again, if you don't have Vigilance and no TASM1, torpedoes are a major, major problem, most especially so for the huge, unwieldy Tier IX+ BBs of all lines.

 

The flip side of having TASM1, especially with Vigilance, gives you plenty of early warning against torpedoes.  But that means some BBs, most especially Yamato, GK, etc. can be seen from the moon and will have tremendous problems breaking away from a fight even at range.  They'll be spotted afar and ships the likes of Zao, Moskva, Hindenburg, as well as all the other BBs, can still keep shooting at you.

 

Some detection ranges to consider with these BBs having Camo+CE trait+CSM1 upgrade:

Yamato 13.5km

Montana 13.4km

GK 13.6km

[alexf24]

I only tested it in Tirpitz, when the thing came out many moons ago. Did not like the trade-off with Concealment so I took it off after a month and never installed in any other ship. Stayed in inventory for over a year until we finally got an inventory system where I could sell it. It may work for you on some BBs. I'd rather have concealment and use map awareness and experience to avoid torpedoes.

[Admiral_Dewey]

I actually used to run this on my Fletcher instead of the additional concealment.  It was certainly situational, but having 3km acquisition range when pushing into smoke was essentially a poor man's hydro. Since no one expects a DD to take it, it allowed me to get the jump on enemy DDs in danger close situations a number of times.

[LittleWhiteMouse]

The debate between Concealment Modification 1 and Target Acquisition Modification 1 is a good one.  For some vessels which accept that they're going to be spotted for a large majority of the match (usually due to cycling their weapons blooming their surface detection range)  Target Acquisition Modification 1 gains more value.

[Sovereigndawg]

The debate between Concealment Modification 1 and Target Acquisition Modification 1 is a good one.  For some vessels which accept that they're going to be spotted for a large majority of the match (usually due to cycling their weapons blooming their surface detection range)  Target Acquisition Modification 1 gains more value.

 

That's an oxymoron since they have to be close when it is effective. Just sayin. except for the torp part i guess.

[ReddNekk]

The debate between Concealment Modification 1 and Target Acquisition Modification 1 is a good one.  For some vessels which accept that they're going to be spotted for a large majority of the match (usually due to cycling their weapons blooming their surface detection range)  Target Acquisition Modification 1 gains more value.

 

Good points Mouse. I personally don't see using the Concealment mod on a massive BB, like my Tirpitz though I do have it, along with CE, on my Belfast. Where I'm undecided is which to use on my Atago. IMHO, using Concealment Modification 1 without CE is not too good and I don't have enough Captain points for CE yet. (need 2 more) But I like the longer acquisition range that Target Acquisition Modification 1 gives me. Decisions... Decisions... 

[Killjoy1941]

TA1 + V = passive hydro. It's extremely useful for certain ships.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

 

That's an oxymoron since they have to be close when it is effective. Just sayin. except for the torp part i guess.

 

TASM1's benefits?  It's usefulness is always on, i.e. better torpedo warning.  Good DD drivers tend to give surprises when you least expect it.

 

On the flip side, TASM1 won't let you disengage as easily or sneak around as well as a full concealment build.

 

But then again, if you're in a heated firefight, what good is CSM1 going to do for something like a Battleship that is firing, and firing, and firing, and firing, etc.?

 

TA1 + V = passive hydro. It's extremely useful for certain ships.

 

It lets even GK get away with some torpedo beats.

[thehelmsman]

On 3/6/2017 at 2:07 PM, ReddNekk said:

 I personally don't see using the Concealment mod on a massive BB.

 

On 3/6/2017 at 2:14 PM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

But then again, if you're in a heated firefight, what good is CSM1 going to do for something like a Battleship that is firing, and firing, and firing, and firing, etc.?

Pretty big necro, here, but the point of Concealment on battleships is that it gives you much more ability to dictate engagements, especially when fighting other battleships. You can maneuver with less worry about being caught broadside and eating a ton of damage. You can get closer to your targets before you open up, which gives them less time to react and makes it easier to land your shots. Also, you get to disengage, if you choose to, after every shot you take, without having to sacrifice damage output to do it. By the time your reload cycle ends, you're already unspotted and you have the initiative. It's a built-in window of stealth during which you get to assess the situation from safety for a few seconds before your guns are ready to fire again. Cruisers and destroyers have to stop firing to go dark, which telegraphs their intentions. Battleships do not. This is INSANELY useful once you learn how to exploit it. If you disappear, most guys will train their guns on whatever else they can see. And even if they don't, it still gives you the opportunity to maneuver between shots to throw off their aim and make yourself harder to hit. In a 1v1 situation (which is quite common toward the end of matches), a BB that does not have concealment is entirely at the mercy of one that does, while a cruiser is much less comfortable engaging (or avoiding) a BB that has concealment compared to one that does not.

--Helms
 

[SinqueScheiDeMona]

Yay necro. I have TASM1 and enjoyed it at first with the Bismarck. However now with the never knowing if I’m going to be on a team that will form a cantabrian circle or contest the map it only brings frustration. 15km visibility basically makes me feel like Rorschach at the end of Watchmen. 

[thehelmsman]

Yeah.... I mean, the case can certainly be made for TASM1, especially if the player in question can't stand getting torped, but to me, being the first one focused because everybody else has stealth and I don't is far more objectionable. If I get torped, it's usually because I made myself an easy target, and I deserve to get punished for it.

--Helms

[Stauffenberg44]

On 3/6/2017 at 4:47 AM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

It's all a tradeoff.  CSM1 to have good detection ranges makes it easier to fade away when you're getting focus fired.  But then again, if you don't have Vigilance and no TASM1, torpedoes are a major, major problem, most especially so for the huge, unwieldy Tier IX+ BBs of all lines.

 

The flip side of having TASM1, especially with Vigilance, gives you plenty of early warning against torpedoes.  But that means some BBs, most especially Yamato, GK, etc. can be seen from the moon and will have tremendous problems breaking away from a fight even at range.  They'll be spotted afar and ships the likes of Zao, Moskva, Hindenburg, as well as all the other BBs, can still keep shooting at you.

 

Some detection ranges to consider with these BBs having Camo+CE trait+CSM1 upgrade:

Yamato 13.5km

Montana 13.4km

GK 13.6km

Good info thanks.  I am about to re-setup the Yamato with the Yamamoto captain and am wrestling with what module configuration to use. I am tempted to use: MAM1 / DCS1 / SBM2 / DCSM 2 or SGM 2 /CSM 1 / GFCSM 2 or AAM 3.

Comments and advice welcome.

[Stauffenberg44]

On 3/6/2017 at 2:14 PM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

But then again, if you're in a heated firefight, what good is CSM1 going to do for something like a Battleship that is firing, and firing, and firing, and firing, etc.?

True, but if you getting seriously flamed you can hold fire for a bit to disappear and get to a better spot.

[_MiDKnighTx_]

I prefer Target Acquisition Mod on my BBs over Concealment mod.  Torps are deadly to BBs and seeing them earlier gives you a better chance to turn.  You can use islands if you need to to disengage if you need to unless you are in the open ocean map which is rare.  

For DDs and cruisers, concealment mod all the way.  

[NCC81701]

LWM have, since her last reply to this thread, did a comprehensive study on the effects and how they stacked a while ago. 

http://shipcomrade.com/news/363/deep-wet-phallic-shaped.html

[HazeGrayUnderway]

I still stand by my points from 2017.  TASM1 has uses but CSM1 as part of a stealth build is a big, big quality of life thing.

 

Good concealment has its uses to control detection, engagement.  The only thing TASM1 does is help against is torpedo detection.  It's useful if you're always that guy in the thick of things, but the meta is stealth.  Even for a BB, stealth is a big deal.  On a DD, stealth is life & death.

 

A repeat of what I said earlier.

"Some detection ranges to consider with these BBs having Camo+CE trait+CSM1 upgrade:

Yamato 13.5km

Montana 13.4km

GK 13.6km"

 

GK, Yamato have a reputation of being seen from the moon, yet with a stealth build, they are all in line with Montana, and nobody complains about Montana's concealment.

 

So you're sailing along, fighting in your BB, then all the sudden, out of nowhere, a Yamato / GK opens up on you to the side at 14km.