1,315 [HEROS] Warlord_Deadeye_Pete Members 2,094 posts 19,485 battles Report post #1 Posted February 26, 2017 I know a secret! But I'm about to make it less secret. So one of my clan mates decided he wanted to check a statement I'd made. I drove a Nagato... He brought a Bismark.. we drew up next to each other secondaries only... no main gun fire. Bismark went down as I just hit 1/3 health.. We did this three more times...very consistant results...We started checking it with other ships and tiers. The Genny and Sharn dies with me at half health. Of course those two do have torps..*whistles* The IJN won the best secondaries v BB and Crusiers, Now against DD's they don't do well with secondaries. They're a little light in HE firing guns so are not as effective. But for other BB's and Cruisers getting close to a IJN Battleship is far more dangerous then you might have realized. The realization has changed how I play my IJN BB's...German BB wanna brawl? Bring it on! *grin* Better have torps.. yer gonna need 'em. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
14 MR_BATTLESHIP_2016 Members 131 posts 1,446 battles Report post #2 Posted February 26, 2017 I know a secret! But I'm about to make it less secret. So one of my clan mates decided he wanted to check a statement I'd made. I drove a Nagato... He brought a Bismark.. we drew up next to each other secondaries only... no main gun fire. Bismark went down as I just hit 1/3 health.. We did this three more times...very consistant results...We started checking it with other ships and tiers. The Genny and Sharn dies with me at half health. Of course those two do have torps..*whistles* The IJN won the best secondaries v BB and Crusiers, Now against DD's they don't do well with secondaries. They're a little light in HE firing guns so are not as effective. But for other BB's and Cruisers getting close to a IJN Battleship is far more dangerous then you might have realized. The realization has changed how I play my IJN BB's...German BB wanna brawl? Bring it on! *grin* Better have torps.. yer gonna need 'em. Thats quite interesting, GERMAN BB's EXPOSED Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
337 [-K--] RightYouAreKen Members 1,151 posts 9,210 battles Report post #3 Posted February 26, 2017 What range did you test at? Nagato can't go out to 10.6km so that needs to be factored in as well. Also, what buffs (skills, flags, upgrades) were you using? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
230 MrEndeavour Members 652 posts 13,857 battles Report post #4 Posted February 26, 2017 Nagato Secondaries aren't that great. Lots of its Secondaries fire AP. Which mean no chance of fire. And 6 inch AP being fired at an angled target won't be very effective either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4,521 [WOLF7] awiggin Members 12,620 posts Report post #5 Posted February 26, 2017 Basing conclusions on a few static tests can be misleading...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
484 comtedumas ∞ Members 2,039 posts 14,276 battles Report post #6 Posted February 26, 2017 I know a secret! But I'm about to make it less secret. So one of my clan mates decided he wanted to check a statement I'd made. I drove a Nagato... He brought a Bismark.. we drew up next to each other secondaries only... no main gun fire. Bismark went down as I just hit 1/3 health.. We did this three more times...very consistant results...We started checking it with other ships and tiers. The Genny and Sharn dies with me at half health. Of course those two do have torps..*whistles* The IJN won the best secondaries v BB and Crusiers, Now against DD's they don't do well with secondaries. They're a little light in HE firing guns so are not as effective. But for other BB's and Cruisers getting close to a IJN Battleship is far more dangerous then you might have realized. The realization has changed how I play my IJN BB's...German BB wanna brawl? Bring it on! *grin* Better have torps.. yer gonna need 'em. Run the test 1000 times, with both bbs speced to secondary fire, then run every ship in the game through the test against each other 1000 times, and you will start to see some useable results. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,319 suleiman71 -Members- 6,960 posts 10,623 battles Report post #7 Posted February 27, 2017 German BBs have the best secondaries at every tier. It's an undeniable fact. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,081 [RICO5] CaptGodzillaPig Members 3,273 posts 7,504 battles Report post #8 Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) Hard to say really what the "best" secondaries are. "Best" is a relative term for the most part. You can have your "theoretical best", which the stat junkies can tell you in great detail why the German BB line has the best seconds. You can also have "situation best" in which you just happen to have a better build on your seconds than your opponent. OR you can just have the "damn I got lucky this time best" in which you just happened to set a few more fires, get more hits, or knock out a few more modules. I ran the IJN line all the way to Yam and I do like their secondaries. That said, I am also running the German line and am getting close to the GK. The Bis and F Der both have really good seconds, but also very different. IMHO secondaries alone are a non issue. Secondaries are a supplement to your normal play. They can be useful in running off pesky DD's and finishing off low health cruisers. In an extended BB brawl a good secondary build can make the difference in the battle. Best? Who can say for sure. Edited February 27, 2017 by CaptGodzillaPig Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4,791 [HINON] dseehafer Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters 8,856 posts 3,680 battles Report post #9 Posted February 27, 2017 I've said before... Mixed secondary batteries are the best. In general, AP focussed secondary batteries are the best. I've done tests with the stock and upgraded hulls of the Bayern using only secondaries against moving and immobile targets and the stock Bayern always sank the target in less hits than the upgraded Bayern. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
11 Andonisus Beta Testers 115 posts 6,452 battles Report post #10 Posted February 27, 2017 In the situation you described where both ships are at very close range broadside yes IJN and their AP secondaries will outperform German HE secondaries. I've had had a cruiser drive up sub 3km broadside to my Yamato before and it sent two consecutive 15k salvos into the poor guys citadel. Of course this isn't an effective measure of how well they preform in practice, German secondries are without question king in 99.9% of the games you will ever play because they are actually effective, reliable even, at non-point blank ranges. Its like looking at the potential DPM of a ship like the atlanta in a vacuum and calling it overpowered, when anyone who has driven an Atlanta knows just how hard it is to apply that damage. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,367 Palladia Members 2,688 posts 4,560 battles Report post #11 Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) I've said before... Mixed secondary batteries are the best. In general, AP focussed secondary batteries are the best. I've done tests with the stock and upgraded hulls of the Bayern using only secondaries against moving and immobile targets and the stock Bayern always sank the target in less hits than the upgraded Bayern. Thats what I've noticed. For some reason the AP secondaries get a lot of flak but pound for pound the APs deal more damage more consistently then HE secondaries. HE secondaries will do more in the long run from fire of course but AP's damage output really helps to stack on the damage. I am sort of surprised the Bizzy lost though, more due to penetration values from the Nagato's secondaries then anything else. Then again the Nagato has a LOT of secondaries. Edit: The Nagato's secondaries also hit a lot harder. The Bismarcks secondaries fire faster and further overall, but the Nagato's pound for pound do more work. The Bismarcks secondaries are better at setting fires, though. INtereeesting. Edited February 27, 2017 by Palladia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 BobaFett_56 Members 19 posts 86 battles Report post #12 Posted February 27, 2017 Forgive me I just started WOWs Friday, what are BB and DD? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,081 [RICO5] CaptGodzillaPig Members 3,273 posts 7,504 battles Report post #13 Posted February 27, 2017 Forgive me I just started WOWs Friday, what are BB and DD? BB = Battleship DD = Destroyer CA = Cruiser CV - Carrier Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 BobaFett_56 Members 19 posts 86 battles Report post #14 Posted February 27, 2017 Thank you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
52,203 [MAUS] LittleWhiteMouse Members 13,705 posts Report post #15 Posted February 27, 2017 If you want your HE secondaries to do more damage, you need to spec into Inertia Fuse for HE Shells. Otherwise, the lion's share of their damage to other Battleships will have to come from the fires they set. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,478 [HINON] renegadestatuz Members 7,656 posts 9,539 battles Report post #16 Posted February 27, 2017 BB = Battleship DD = Destroyer CA = Cruiser CV - Carrier Don't forget CL=Cruiser as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
6 StormOfRazors Members 19 posts 2,982 battles Report post #17 Posted February 27, 2017 The IJN won the best secondaries v BB and Crusiers, Now against DD's they don't do well with secondaries. They're a little light in HE firing guns so are not as effective. But for other BB's and Cruisers getting close to a IJN Battleship is far more dangerous then you might have realized. To use secondaries to full effect in any BB brawl you need to give more broadside than I am comfortable with. This is true for the Nagato especially, which is much easier to citadel than comparable German BB. You left the possibility of being citadelled out of your test. With main battery in use, and factoring in armor, German BB has the edge. Also, situations against cruisers coming point blank (where the AP of IJN will be effective) is very rare, as cruisers dont tend to rush battleships in this way. I mean, as a BB main one can dream right?... Secondaries are a supplement to your normal play. They can be useful in running off pesky DD's and finishing off low health cruisers. In an extended BB brawl a good secondary build can make the difference in the battle. Agree, secondaries wont save any potato thats giving full broadside, but they give an advantage. IMO, I agree with others in this thread that German secondaries are superior because of the extra range and HE fire starting ability. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,081 [RICO5] CaptGodzillaPig Members 3,273 posts 7,504 battles Report post #18 Posted February 27, 2017 Don't forget CL=Cruiser as well. True, but most people use CA. Good point though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4,809 [HINON] tcbaker777 [HINON] Members 9,921 posts 18,429 battles Report post #19 Posted February 27, 2017 Germans have the best secondaries, they light fires like no ones business Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
627 [MAHAN] AdmiralPiett Beta Testers 1,605 posts 7,195 battles Report post #20 Posted February 27, 2017 If you want to use your secondaries outside of a laboratory, German is the way forward. They have the right combination of range, firing arcs and damage output on hulls that are virtually impossible to citadel. Trying to go some kind of crazy secondary build on something like Nagato isn't particularly effective because the ship itself should be maintaining a 12-15km distance against targets most of the time to make the most of the big boombooms and limited armour. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4,809 [HINON] tcbaker777 [HINON] Members 9,921 posts 18,429 battles Report post #21 Posted February 27, 2017 If you want to use your secondaries outside of a laboratory, German is the way forward. They have the right combination of range, firing arcs and damage output on hulls that are virtually impossible to citadel. Trying to go some kind of crazy secondary build on something like Nagato isn't particularly effective because the ship itself should be maintaining a 12-15km distance against targets most of the time to make the most of the big boombooms and limited armour. this guy gets it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
484 comtedumas ∞ Members 2,039 posts 14,276 battles Report post #22 Posted February 27, 2017 Thank you CA is Heavy Cruiser, CL is Light Cruiser. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3,394 [REVY] Royeaux Members 9,709 posts 7,317 battles Report post #23 Posted February 27, 2017 If you want your HE secondaries to do more damage, you need to spec into Inertia Fuse for HE Shells. Otherwise, the lion's share of their damage to other Battleships will have to come from the fires they set. So for the Bismarck, do I give up AFT or Manual Secondaries to get IFHE? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
777 [BARF] 1nc0mp3t3nt_1 Beta Testers 5,816 posts 5,484 battles Report post #24 Posted February 27, 2017 I know a secret! But I'm about to make it less secret. So one of my clan mates decided he wanted to check a statement I'd made. I drove a Nagato... He brought a Bismark.. we drew up next to each other secondaries only... no main gun fire. Bismark went down as I just hit 1/3 health.. We did this three more times...very consistant results...We started checking it with other ships and tiers. The Genny and Sharn dies with me at half health. Of course those two do have torps..*whistles* The IJN won the best secondaries v BB and Crusiers, Now against DD's they don't do well with secondaries. They're a little light in HE firing guns so are not as effective. But for other BB's and Cruisers getting close to a IJN Battleship is far more dangerous then you might have realized. The realization has changed how I play my IJN BB's...German BB wanna brawl? Bring it on! *grin* Better have torps.. yer gonna need 'em. Yeah... I'll brawl with you in my Bismarck if you like 1v1,but note that it will be like this: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3,407 Compassghost Supertest Coordinator 7,223 posts 14,450 battles Report post #25 Posted February 27, 2017 AP secondaries are dependable dcause of their low caliber. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
