Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Howlin_Mad_Murdoch

I hate Neptune...Is Minotaur worth the grind?

26 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

1,744
[-K-]
Members
5,769 posts
9,803 battles

I don't think I've ever heard a single soul say they hate Neptune before....

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
317 posts
4,828 battles

Probably not? Minotaur is a Neptune that thinks its an Atlanta. 

 

*Neptune was awesome by the way

Edited by EmGee42

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
119 posts
12,168 battles

I think I was expecting more of a difference between the Edinburgh vs Neptune and I don't like how the guns don't seem to be a huge improvement over the Edinburgh.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
484
[SW]
Beta Testers
1,894 posts
8,528 battles

if you could not make the one work, it will most likely be no different on the next.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,549 posts
13,192 battles

Have not enjoyed the reduction in shell velocity, from the Ed to Neptune.  Shell float worse then US 127mm, similar to an Atlanta.  Can put out a lot of shells, but have to throw them up there, and hope target moves under them.  Also, more radar capable ships in 9/10 play.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,485
[AXANR]
Members
3,373 posts
17,147 battles

Minotaur is worth any grind at all...it's my favorite tier 10 ship, one of my favorite three ships (along with Clemson and Akizuki.)

 

That being said, I loved Neptune. If you hate Neptune you may not like Minotaur. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,520
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
7,237 posts
11,044 battles

I quite enjoyed but never mastered Neptune. It has too many fundamental weaknesses. 

 

Minotaur is an upgrade although only having 4 instead of 6 bow/stern on guns is a step down. The playstyle changes as your detection goes from 'OK' with Baltimore being stealthier than Neptune to 'pretty fantastic' which gives a lot of options to choose fights, evade and pick up DD's closer. The super rapid traverse also allows you to try an at-range/spotted style as whatever maneuvers you do, you track targets with the guns. 

 

 

The ships are massive bundles of contradictions. 'Destroyer hunters' with terrible MV to hit at range (so spam a lot) and which can get bounced by angling. Terrible survivability with giant citadels and no armor, but great survivability with repair party. 'AA cruisers' with no defensive fire. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
863
[KNTAI]
[KNTAI]
Alpha Tester, Beta Testers
3,172 posts
7,441 battles

I preferred the Minotaur over the Neptune when I tried the ship, though there are some who prefer the Neptune over the Minotaur. It's really hard to say without knowing your preferences.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,328
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
17,294 posts
15,784 battles

Neptune and Minotaur both play in the same Tier IX-X world.  They both will still see all the most powerful ships of each line.  Minotaur is basically a faster firing Neptune.  If you hated Neptune, you're not going to like Minotaur as both have to play in the same dangerous environment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,225
[SYN]
Members
14,849 posts
11,307 battles

Neptune's biggest weakness is having the worst detection range in the RNCL line.

You know you are in for a rough ride when you have the 3rd best concealment in T9 cruisers when your ship relies on stealth to get into position

Yeah, that's right, Ibuki and Baltimore have better concealment.

 

The second part of its weakness is that massive citadel.

 

Minotaur fixes a lot of that and gives you best concealment in T10 cruisers and, in fact, it is best in the T8-10 bracket.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
249
[JEEP]
Beta Testers
742 posts
5,259 battles

I have the Neptune and she and I have not gotten along. I cannot get over her bad maneuverability, and I am talking full maneuverability build on Neptune VS same build on Edinburgh. She has no brakes at all, she steers almost as bad as the Bismark for a ship that should handle much much better, and the shell float is asinine. I may FreeXP past it to the Minotaur, I want that thing in my harbor.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
161
[OTG]
Beta Testers
591 posts
8,727 battles

 

I loved the Edi and was very hesitant about getting the Neptune. In my Edi I have won more duels with Neptunes and Minotours than I have lost.  I was rightfully so, concerned about the shell , arc, maneuverability and bigger citadels.  Got the Neptune, did all the upgrades I could on the rudder shift and that fixed that.  My play style had to change a little to be more of a support style ship, raining shells down while just a little behind the front line non-DD ships using torps to keep enemy ships at a distance and make them show you broadsides (although due to shell arc you are not going to get cits unless you are much closer.  Got the Minotaur, and it’s the Neptune on steroids, better concealment, damage, fire rate, and turret speed.  Bigger citadels bigger arcs, and a bigger target when hiding in smoke.  It’s a shot gun that can land 200 shells in a battle because it shot 750! Oh and it doesn’t have secondary’s, which I miss because I really likes them setting DDs and other ships on fire in my Edi and Neptune. 

 

 

TTDR – if you didn’t care for the change from Edi to Neptune than the Minotaur may not be for you.  I sold my Neptune kept my Edi. Minotaur for me is fun but that support role I mentioned, yeah you have to do even more of that play style. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
173 posts
10,372 battles

 

On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 3:52 PM, YukonHunter said:

I have the Neptune and she and I have not gotten along. I cannot get over her bad maneuverability, and I am talking full maneuverability build on Neptune VS same build on Edinburgh. She has no brakes at all, she steers almost as bad as the Bismark for a ship that should handle much much better, and the shell float is asinine. I may FreeXP past it to the Minotaur, I want that thing in my harbor.

 It's not the turning that kills me (literally) it is the utter lack of change in speed.  Why does it take a CA as long to slow down or speed up as a BB?  ????   ????????

If the screw design was that messed up...they would have fixed it in initial trials.  I slide out of smoke a lot, simply because my brain refuses to believe that it actually takes that long to go from 1/2 speed to stopped....because it makes no sense whatsoever.

Changing the smoke duration wasn't a 'fix' for this, it was a partial band aid.  They should have 'fixed' it.  It comes into play more than just when initially laying smoke (I got used to that, even before the 'fix'.

 

Quote

The second part of its weakness is that massive citadel.

 The third part is as described above...which makes you get hits in that massive citadel a lot more than you should.

WG:  Why would ANY Tier 9 ship have a massive citadel? Not only does that not fit into the game (it flies in the face of 'progression')...but why would they design a newer ship that way in the first place?  Hmmmm, what should we change in the next design?  I know...let's make sure it takes damage at a ginormous rate, and gets eliminated from fights quickly!  Brilliant!   And while we're at it, let's make sure she maneuvers like a slug, and couldn't slow down if her life depended on it!

 

Edited by DrunkenSailor63
because
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
249
[JEEP]
Beta Testers
742 posts
5,259 battles
2 hours ago, DrunkenSailor63 said:

 

 It's not the turning that kills me (literally) it is the utter lack of change in speed.  Why does it take a CA as long to slow down or speed up as a BB?  ????   ????????

If the screw design was that messed up...they would have fixed it in initial trials.  I slide out of smoke a lot, simply because my brain refuses to believe that it actually takes that long to go from 1/2 speed to stopped....because it makes no sense whatsoever.

Changing the smoke duration wasn't a 'fix' for this, it was a partial band aid.  They should have 'fixed' it.  It comes into play more than just when initially laying smoke (I got used to that, even before the 'fix'.

 

 The third part is as described above...which makes you get hits in that massive citadel a lot more than you should.

WG:  Why would ANY Tier 9 ship have a massive citadel? Not only does that not fit into the game (it flies in the face of 'progression')...but why would they design a newer ship that way in the first place?  Hmmmm, what should we change in the next design?  I know...let's make sure it takes damage at a ginormous rate, and gets eliminated from fights quickly!  Brilliant!   And while we're at it, let's make sure she maneuvers like a slug, and couldn't slow down if her life depended on it!

 


Now that Ive had the Mino for a while, i have to say, she is *Dramatically* better than Neptune. Yes still stuck with the shell float, but the guns are faster (turret rotation and reload), better health and better - ish - maneuverability. Mino has only slightly better brakes than Neptune, but given I dont play the smoke game anyway (Im rigged for Radar - as I greatly enjoy the tears of DDs) but she is not a boat for novices by any stretch of the imagination. The slightest screwup will sink you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
956 posts
4,023 battles

Yes it's worth the grind. I didn't care much for the Neptune. I didn't think it offset its weaknesses well enough. That's different with the Mino as it's DPM is through the roof. You actually are a glass cannon. That being said, as long as I don't literally get one-shot, it earns me more Dreadnoughts than even my GK lol. Positioning. Just get that down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5
[-Z-]
Alpha Tester
87 posts
1,602 battles

Also neptune hater here. The ship has so many fundamental flaws its insane. You're basically ineffectual outside around 8km, but if youre that close to something else and lit (which is likely) you'll be dead within 20 seconds unless something really amazing happens because your citadel apparently spans the entire ship and has an almost 100% hit rate from any cruiser or BB shooting you at any angle.  Island hiding would be a tactic except you don't have HE, your 15km base range has a 12 second hang time which is insane (you also do almost no damage from that far anyway cause of your small guns + angle of impact),  and almost every time I've tried it at tiers 9/10 the engagement range for the first 2/3 of the game is usually above 15km anyway so I've almost never had any luck with it. It's hard to even engage the destroyers that WILL spot you early with it cause even if you see them back at 8 or 9km thats still like a 9 second hang time shot that any competent destroyer at higher tiers will dodge most of

 

Disclaimer: My stats in the neptune are atrocious and have worse average damage than tier 5s, its prob my worst ship in the game. Nothing I've ever tried has been able to make this ship work outside the very rare 5+ torpedo hit on BB games which usually only happens 15 minutes in when your team is just cleaning up stuff around islands anyway. Also today I hit a conq whose team had already lost anyway with 4 torpedos and he reported me for it classic

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
291
[G0ATS]
[G0ATS]
Members
1,159 posts
6,906 battles

Neptune is hard to play... I figured out that it's vulnerability can be taken advantage of. Put the reload mod on it, gets the gun reload down to 4.3s. Put adrenaline rush on it as well, if you take a big hit and get knocked down to half/third health, don't heal...You're reload will be ~3.75s I think, which is awesome if you're in a good spot. It's kinda like the IJN destroyers, feast or famine. I wish the dang shell velocity would be a little faster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,249
[SALVO]
Members
18,296 posts
18,887 battles
On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 12:03 PM, DrunkenSailor63 said:

 

 It's not the turning that kills me (literally) it is the utter lack of change in speed.  Why does it take a CA as long to slow down or speed up as a BB?  ????   ????????

If the screw design was that messed up...they would have fixed it in initial trials.  I slide out of smoke a lot, simply because my brain refuses to believe that it actually takes that long to go from 1/2 speed to stopped....because it makes no sense whatsoever.
 

 I guess for me this hasn't been a problem because I always try to be concealed while I'm slowing down so that I can pop smoke safely and now have to worry about whether I'll slide out of the smoke due to iffy deceleration.  

OTOH, a problem I do have here is more one of my making.  I am just not all that used to the sitting in smoke and shooting play style, and will often accidentally hit the W or S key and slide out of the smoke on my own, often dying in the process because I'm just too close to the enemy and get spotted by some nearby enemy DD.  I have to admit that this tendency of mine is tempting me to try a Radar Neptune setup to see if I can make it work any better than the more common Smoky Neptune setup.

 

On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 12:03 PM, DrunkenSailor63 said:

 The third part is as described above...which makes you get hits in that massive citadel a lot more than you should.

WG:  Why would ANY Tier 9 ship have a massive citadel? Not only does that not fit into the game (it flies in the face of 'progression')...but why would they design a newer ship that way in the first place?  Hmmmm, what should we change in the next design?  I know...let's make sure it takes damage at a ginormous rate, and gets eliminated from fights quickly!  Brilliant! 

I don't think that it has anything to do with it being a tier 9 ship.  It's all about the entire RN CL line being glass cannons.  It's why they're so dependent on smoke, for better or worse, at least for most players.

I will say that it does make for a playstyle that's not all that enjoyable for me.  Their egg shell hulls pretty much require you to either use smoke or terrain so that you can shoot from concealment.  About the only time it seems like I can get away with shooting openly is when there's a big brawl and I'm one little fish that's getting ignored out around 14-15 km.  And even then, sometimes an enemy player will notice a nice, juicy Neptune out there and start flinging shells at me, even though there are much nastier and closer threats.

 

On ‎4‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 4:18 PM, Lunarhawk said:

Also Neptune hater here. The ship has so many fundamental flaws its insane. You're basically ineffectual outside around 8km, but if you're that close to something else and lit (which is likely) you'll be dead within 20 seconds unless something really amazing happens because your citadel apparently spans the entire ship and has an almost 100% hit rate from any cruiser or BB shooting you at any angle.  Island hiding would be a tactic except you don't have HE, your 15km base range has a 12 second hang time which is insane (you also do almost no damage from that far anyway cause of your small guns + angle of impact),  and almost every time I've tried it at tiers 9/10 the engagement range for the first 2/3 of the game is usually above 15km anyway so I've almost never had any luck with it. It's hard to even engage the destroyers that WILL spot you early with it cause even if you see them back at 8 or 9km that's still like a 9 second hang time shot that any competent destroyer at higher tiers will dodge most of

I don't see any problem with the Neptune firing at range and doing damage.  Oh, yes, with their shells hang time, scoring hits may be a challenge, but from my experience, when you get hits, they tend to do damage.

 

 

I won't say that I hate the Neptune.  But I will say that it can be a frustrating ship to play due to its vulnerability and play style, which relies a lot more on shooting from some form of concealment than kiting and depending on long range accuracy and nimbleness to avoid taking hits.  I'm much more comfortable doing the latter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
842 posts

I had no problem in the RN CLs after the Emerald. They're still my best performing line of ships.

But the Neptune was complete and utter [edited], rivaled only by the Emerald for crappiest RN ship in existence.

 

That's because it is an utter moronic setup:

  • NO armor.
  • HUGE citadel
  • Massive Size
  • Horrible Maneuverability
  • Terrible concealment
  • Awful HP pool
  • Bad smoke-firing detection!

All in exchange for a very modest increase in ROF, and some more torps.

Basically, it trades away everything that was good about the prior RN CLs in exchange for doing a bit more damage.  It's a stupid, stupid, stupid trade.  Because you never get to do all that additional damage, as everything wipes you off the map as soon as you're seen.

Heck, they've even screwed over the one advantage of RN CLs, and basically the sole protection of the Neptune: it has worse smoke firing (by over 1km!) than any other RN CL, despite having exactly the same gun setup.

I ground through it, hating every moment of that god-awful ship.  I was reduced to doing only two things:  sitting 10km behind the front, smoke firing, and then, when my smoke ran out, scurrying to the nearest island that I could hide behind and island camping.  The Neptune CANNOT be exposed to any counterfire - not even DDs. You can't dodge at all, you're trivial to hit due to your massive size, and anything just slightly larger than normal cruiser-caliber guns will overmatch virtually every part of your ship; oh, and every single BB you face will have every single secondary gun they have able to HE pen the entire ship.  It's a train-wreck of a ship.

I fight T10s in my Edinburgh FAR more successfully than I ever did in the Neptune.  Heck, the Neptune is so bad that it's not even very good when it's top-tier. I've seen a PENSACOLA wreck a Neptune in a fair fight - punch a triple citadel through the bow, and do 20k with just the forward guns. I've also seen a full-health Neptune murdered by just a GKF's secondaries - the armor on the Neptune is so crappy that the GFK's secondaries pen everywhere, all the time.  I shudder to think of what a Richelieu, Alsace or Republique could do it with secondaries, as even their horribly tiny 100mm are good enough to pen everywhere.

 

The Minotaur, of course, is back to the same goodness that the Edinburgh, Fiji, and Leander are, thankfully.  I view the Neptune the same as the Izumo: complete crap put in just to make people pay out to get the T10. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by EAnybody
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
14 posts
12,263 battles

I enjoyed the Neptune and found it easy to deal with the detection spike. It pushes you to learn better habits and position better. None of my experience made me afraid to take a head on brawl with most cruisers when I had to, and I find the idea that a Pensacola can wreck you head on if you have some idea what you're doing pretty hard to believe, given that you have 16mm armor all over your hull..and 203mm definitely is not enough to overmatch that. On top of that the Edinburgh and the Minotaur both have the same 16mm bow armor. The Edinburgh's real advantage is that it doesn't have the huge central hump on the citadel...which the Mino does.

Sitting in the open long enough to get shredded by a BB's secondaries doesn't strike me as proper use of RN CL, and I've never been in that position despite regularly pushing aggressively to close range to hammer BBs from smoke.

An edit to add that I also found it much more enjoyable due to the higher rate of fire and more handy turrets, and as a result I enjoyed the Minotaur even more with its bonus of increased stealth.

Edited by EtherlightEX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×