Japan's Battleship Musashi

[Tanz]

Well I hadn't made any new post for a bit, sorry been busy getting sorted for my trip, and seeing as I'm going to Japan figure this great big beauty would be an awesome last major post until I'm back from Japan mid/late November. Yet, while I'll be down in Yokosuka, I'll go over to the HIJMS Mikasa and take some up to date pics for you guys and post them up  :Smile_honoring:

So with that out of the way I bring you HIJMS Musashi.

 

HIJMS Musashi

Now the meaning of her name has been known to vary due to misinformation. The historical sources state that she was named after the Musashi Province (which is correct), but there are some that say she’s named after the famous swordsman Miyamoto Musashi.  Even a documentary at NAT GEO about samurais claimed this to be true, and while it would sound awesome; sorry that's wrong.

 

 

Musashi was the second of the Yamato-class battleships; she shared the honor with the lead ship, as the largest battleship ever constructed in naval history.

 

With international treaties limiting new warship construction to a reasonable 35,000 tons, the Imperial Japanese Navy set about to construct the massive 65,000+ ton Yamato and Musashi, under a cloak of secrecy to avoid disclosure. So secret were they that the Japanese public was shielded from the construction.

 

Construction, Commissioning, & Trials

 

The keel of Battleship Numer 2, (later to be named Musashi) was laid down 29 March 1938 at Mitsubishi's Nagasaki shipyard. During construction of Battleship Number 2, special floating cranes of 150 and 350 metric ton capacities were purposely built at Number 2 slipway for this project. Utmost secrecy was maintained during her construction; the entire length of the ship was camouflaged by rope against aerial photography, and urban legend had it that the roofing had consumed the entire supply of rope in Japan. The cover-up was so successful that the Americans were unaware of the construction even though the United States consulate office was essentially just across the bay.

 

The Russians, however, almost discovered it by accident. On 20 May 1938, six Russian-manned TB-3 bombers with Chinese markings flew over Fukuoka, Nagasaki, and Sasebo to drop propaganda leaflets and to take pictures; Battleship Number 2 was actually photographed, but the photograph, even after the Americans reviewed it, did not arouse the alarm.

 

Like her sister her main battery consisted of the 18.1in gun known as the 46cm Type 94, a 45cal weapon referred to for security reasons as the 40cm Type 94. This gun fired a 3,219lb AP shell to a range of 45,960 yards at 45°. Each triple turret weighed 2,470 tons complete. The guns were in a separate cradle and could thus elevate independently. Elevation was hydraulic, & gun training electric.

 

Secondary armament was made up of four triple turrets housing twelve 6.1in (155mm) guns. They were located on Nos. 2 and 3 turrets and the other pair on the beam abreast the funnel. These guns could fire a 123lb shell to a range of 29,260 yards. Yet, because these couldn’t be counted on for long range AA defense, it was necessary to fit a tertiary battery of 5in DP weapons.

 

 

 

Battleship Number 2 was launched on 1 Nov 1940 in a secret ceremony attended only by a few top naval officials. As soon as she was put into the water, Kasuga Maru (later to be converted to the escort carrier Taiyo) was towed to block Battleship Number 2 from view. She spent the following 18 months fitting out in Sasebo. Towards the end of fitting out, the ship's flagship facilities, including those on the bridge and in the admiral's cabins, were subjected to change orders stemming from Combined Fleet's desire to have the ship equipped as the flagship of the Commander-in-Chief, as the Yamato was too far along for such changes. These alterations, along with additional communications gear, improvements in the secondary battery armor, pushed back completion and pre-handover testing of the Battleships Number 2 by two - three months.

 

On 5 Aug 1942, she was commissioned as the Battleship Musashi. The same day she joined the 1st Battleships Division which was made up of the Battleships Yamato, Nagato, and Mutsu.

 

From 3–28 September 1942, Musashi was fitted with her secondary armament, consisting of twelve 127 mm guns. These were the standard 12.7cm Type 89, in six twin mountings, three per side grouped amidships. She also got thirty-six 25 mm guns. The light AA battery was the weakest point in the design because the standard 25mm gun did not have the range or punch to cope with modern aircraft, but nothing else was available.  Also four 13.2 mm (0.52 in) anti-aircraft machine guns, as well as additional radar equipment.

 

 

 

 

Throughout October and November, Musashi carried out trials and gunnery-drills near Kure. In December 1942, following aircraft drills with the aircraft carrier Zuikaku, Musashi was declared operational.

 

Operational Service

 

After post-shakedown fitting out at Kure, Musashi sailed for Truk in the Caroline Islands on 18 Jan 1943 where she was named Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto's flagship; this assignment was the reason why the additional communications gear was required during fitting out. She officially became Yamamoto's flagship on 11 Feb 1943, relieving her sister ship, Yamato. On 23 Apr 1943, ashes of Yamamoto, who was struck down by US Army Air Corps fighters several days prior, were secretly brought aboard via a flying boat. Two days later, Admiral Mineichi Koga came aboard under the pretense of an inspection to take over command of the Combined Fleet.

 

 

 

 

On 17 May 1943, Musashi along with two light carriers, nine destroyers, and two cruisers were deployed to the northern Pacific. When no contact was made with American forces, Musashi traveled to Japan and delivered Yamamoto's ashes to Kure on May 23rd.  She then joined a larger attack force which set sail, to support the Alutian Islands but the islands fell back into US hands and the operation was abandoned and the she returned to Japan.

 

On 24 June 1943, while undergoing overhauling and repairs at Yokosuka Naval Arsenal, Musashi was visited by Emperor Hirohito. Musashi transferred to Kure on the 1st of July and entered drydocked the same day. From 1–8 July, Musashi was upgraded with improved firing control and radar. Following several transfers between the Home Islands bases, Musashi deployed to Truk on the 31st of July, arriving six days later.

 

Between the 6th of Aug 1943 and 10th of Feb 1944, Musashi remained mostly in port at Truk. On September 18th, Musashi sortied from Truk alongside three other battleships in response to American raids on Eniwetok and Brown Island. Seven days later, the fleet returned to Truk after failing to come in contact with American forces.

 

In October, in response to suspicions of planned American raids on Wake Island, Musashi led a large fleet under Admiral Mineichi Koga (three fast carriers, six battleships, and 11 cruisers) to intercept American carrier forces. When no contact was made, the fleet returned to Truk on 26 October.

 

She had no further operations for the rest of 1943.

 

Her final Year

 

Between 15 and 24 Feb 1944, Musashi was used as a transport to carry one Army battalion, one Special Naval Landing Force battalion, munitions, fuel, and vehicles from Yokosuka to the Palau Islands; en route, the task force encountered a typhoon, and as a result most of the deck load of munitions was lost. The task force arrived at Palau Islands on 29 Feb. She departed Palau Islands under the cover of darkness on 29 Mar 1944, but was discovered by American submarine USS Tunny, which damaged her port bow with one of six torpedoes fired at 1744. The hit tore a 19-foot diameter hole, causing minor flooding and casualties. Musashi continued to sail for Japan at a reduced speed, reaching Kure on 3 Apr.

 

While being repaired at Kure, she received new radar, depth-charge rails, and also refitted with heavier anti-aircraft defenses, replacing six of her large 155-mm secondary guns with a large quantity of 25-mm anti-aircraft guns. At this time, her anti-aircraft weaponry included six 15.5 cm guns, twenty-four 12.7 cm guns, one hundred thirty 25-mm guns, and four 13.2 mm machine guns.

 

 

 

 

In May 1944, she departed for Okinawa, then with Admiral Ozawa’a Second Fleet headed for Tawitawi. On 10 Jun, Musashi took part in Operation Kon, aimed at relieving Biak off New Guinea, which was abandoned shortly after due to the American invasion of the Mariana Islands.

 

On 18 Jul 1944, Musashi arrived at Lingga near Singapore and joined the Mobile Fleet.  On 12 Aug 1944, Captain Toshihira Inoguchi was given command of Musashi. In Sep, Inoguchi ordered Musashi painted a dark color; the paint might have been Royal Navy in origin. On 18 Oct, her deck was blackened with soot. The camouflaging attempts were all made because of the upcoming Operation Sho-Go which resulted in the naval battles in the area of Leyte Gulf.

 

Final Voyage

 

On 18 Oct, Vice Admiral Takeo Kurita engaged in Operation Sho-1 by taking a powerful surface fleet that included both of the Yamato-class battleships. The fleet sailed into the Sibuyan Sea west of Leyte of the Philippine Islands, aiming to hit the vulnerable American transports on the other side of the island. With this objective, five battleships including Musashi and 10 heavy cruisers departed Brunei for the Philippines on October 20th 1944.

 

 

 

 

At 0810 on 24 Oct 1944, an aircraft from carrier USS Intrepid spotted the fleet. By 1018, Musashi's lookouts reported about 30 incoming hostile aircraft. At 1027, the battle began & American aircraft focused on Musashi (whose guns fired in combat for the first time).

 

 

 

 

"I couldn't believe how enormous they were!" recalled SB2C Helldiver gunner Joe Anderlik of carrier Franklin, speaking of the two Yamato class ships. "Musashi was huge!", said gunner Russ Dustan also of Franklin, "I had never seen anything as big in my entire life. It was a magnificent sight".

 

Because the air cover was inadequate, the Japanese ships were left to fend for themselves. Musashi's anti-aircraft weapons helped setting up an intense umbrella of flak above the fleet, while her 18-in guns fired into the water to make huge geysers aimed at knocking down American torpedo bombers.

 

"Running into one of these geysers would be like running into a mountain", recalled TBF Avenger pilot Jack Lawton, "I felt the muzzle blast each time they fired. I could swear the wings were ready to fold every time these huge shockwaves hit us."

 

Without adequate air cover, however powerful Musashi was, she was helpless against multiple waves of attacking aircraft.

 

 

 

 

After the final attack ended at 1530, she suffered hits by 19 or 20 torpedoes, 17 bombs, and 18 near misses. Efforts to correct the worsening list failed, and Inoguchi gave the order to "standby to abandon ship" at 1915; by this time, the list was at 15 degrees. Immediately after this order, Inoguchi retired to his cabin with the intention to go down with the ship; he was never seen again. At 1930, the list to port reached 30 degrees, and abandon ship order was given. At 1936, Musashi capsized and sank. 1,023 lives aboard Musashi were lost on that day. The Americans only lost 18 aircraft.

 

 

 

 

Note that she took far more punishment than the Yamato did, which took at least eleven torpedoes and six bombs.

 

 

HIJMS Musashi 1944

 

 

 

 

General Statistics for the Musashi

 

Displacement:

68,200 long tons (69,300 t) (normal)

72,800 long tons (74,000 t) (full load)

 

Dimensions:

Length:

256 m (839 ft 11 in) (waterline)

263 m (862 ft 10 in) (overall)

Beam: 38.9 m (127 ft 7 in)

Draft: 11 m (36 ft 1 in) at full load

 

Installed power: 150,000 shp (110,000 kW)

 

Propulsion:

12 × Kanpon boilers

4 × steam turbines 12 × Kampon boilers

4 × 3-bladed, 6 m (19 ft 8 in) propellers

 

Speed: 27.46 kn (50.86 km/h; 31.60 mph)

 

Range: 7,200 nmi (13,300 km; 8,300 mi) at 16 kn (30 km/h; 18 mph)

 

Complement: 2,399

 

Armament:

August 1942:

9 × 18.1 inch (46 cm) guns (3x3)

12 × 155 mm (6.1 in) dual purpose guns (4x3)

12 × 127 mm (5 in) dual purpose guns (6x2)

24 × 25 mm (0.98 in) Type 96 anti-aircraft guns (8x3)

4 × 13.2 mm anti-aircraft machine guns (2x2)

October 1944:

9 × 18.1 inch (46 cm) (3x3)

6 × 155 mm (6.1 in) (2×3)

12 × 127 mm (5 in) (6x2)[4]

130 × 25 mm (0.98 in) Type 96 anti-aircraft guns (32x3, 34x1)

4 × 13.2 mm anti-aircraft machine guns (2x2)

 

Armor:

65 cm (26 in) on front of turrets

41 cm (16.1 in) side armor

20 cm (7.9 in) central deck armor

22.65 cm (8.92 in) outer deck armor

 

Aircraft: 7 × floatplanes

[Captainhelios]

Another great one man. All the pics you add make it work. Have fun in Japan, never been but always wanted to go.

+1

[Jager_Panther1]

19 or 20 torpedoes, 17 bombs, and 18 near misses...

 

But boy was she was one tough ship

[SimulationX]

Jager_Panther1, on 30 October 2012 - 01:51 AM, said:

19 or 20 torpedoes, 17 bombs, and 18 near misses...
But boy was she was one tough ship

but not tough enough. Carriers proved to be far more powerful

[Jager_Panther1]

SimulationX, on 30 October 2012 - 01:54 AM, said:

but not tough enough. Carriers proved to be far more powerful

yup, when you use your 18 inch guns to try and splash planes... well you just lost, which is unfortunate since i would have loved to see one of the Yamato's preserved

[Mermaid_Witch]

Jager_Panther1, on 30 October 2012 - 01:51 AM, said:

19 or 20 torpedoes, 17 bombs, and 18 near misses...

God dam she was one tough ship

The reason the Musashi took so much punishment compared to the Yamato is because the torpedo planes hit her on both sides with torpedoes, which naturally counter-flooded the ship and kept Musashi from capsizing.

When she finally went down, the Musashi was heading towards one of the islands in the Philippines with the intention of beaching her.  They almost made it, too.

[Haguro]

Another great post Tanz.  I will be in Akashi next week on business, so my sightseeing time will be limited.

From the reports I've read it seemed the USN torpedo aircraft concentrated on Yamato's port side at least initially.

Quote

At 12:45 a single torpedo struck Yamato far forward on her port side, sending extreme shocks throughout the ship. Because many of the hit's survivors were later killed by strafing or were trapped when Yamato sank, the details are uncertain, but authors Garzke and Dulin record that little damage was caused.^[48] Shortly afterward up to three more torpedoes struck Yamato. Two impacts—on the port side near the engine room and on one of the boiler rooms—are confirmed; the third is disputed but is regarded by Garzke and Dulin as probable because it would explain the reported flooding in Yamato's auxiliary steering room. The attack ended around 12:47, leaving the battleship to list 5–6° to port; counterflooding—deliberately flooding compartments on the other side of the ship—reduced the list to 1°. One boiler room had been disabled, slightly reducing Yamato's top speed, and strafing had incapacitated many of the gun crews who manned Yamato's unprotected 25 mm anti-aircraft weapons, sharply curtailing their effectiveness.

 

 

http://bits.wikimedia.org/static-1.21wmf1/skins/common/images/magnify-clip.pngYamato photographed during the battle by an aircraft from USS Yorktown (CV-10). The battleship is on fire and visibly listing to port.

The second attack started just before 13:00. In a coordinated strike, dive bombers flew high overhead to begin their runs while torpedo laden aircraft approached from all directions at just above sea level. Overwhelmed by the number of targets, the battleship's anti-aircraft guns were less than effective, and the Japanese tried desperate measures to break up the attack. Yamato's main guns were loaded with Beehive shells fused to explode one second after firing—a mere 1,000 m (3,300 ft) from the ship—but this had little effect. Four or five torpedoes struck the battleship, three or four to port and one to starboard. Three hits, close together on the port side, are confirmed: one struck a fireroom that had been hit earlier, one impacted a different fireroom, and the third hit the hull adjacent to a previously damaged outboard engine room, increasing the water that had already been flowing into that space and possibly causing flooding in nearby locations. The fourth hit (though unconfirmed) may have struck aft of the third; Garzke and Dulin believe this would explain the rapid flooding that reportedly occurred in that location.^[49] This attack left Yamato in a perilous position, listing 15–18° to port. Counterflooding all of the remaining starboard void spaces lessened this to 10°, but further correction would have required either repairs or flooding the starboard engine and fire rooms. Although the battleship was in no danger of sinking at this point, the list meant that the main battery was unable to fire and her maximum speed was limited to 18 knots (33 km/h; 21 mph).^[50]

The third and most damaging attack developed at about 13:40. At least four bombs hit the ship's superstructure and caused heavy casualties among her 25 mm anti-aircraft gun crews. Many near misses drove in her outer plating, partially compromising her defense against torpedoes. Most serious were four more torpedo impacts. Three exploded on the port side, increasing water intake into the port inner engine room and flooding yet another fireroom and the steering gear room. With the auxiliary steering room already underwater, the ship lost all maneuverability and became stuck in a starboard turn. The fourth torpedo most likely hit the starboard outer engine room which, along with three other rooms on the starboard side, was in the process of being counterflooded to reduce the port list. The torpedo strike increased the rate of water intake by a large margin, trapping many crewmen before they could escape.^[51]

 

 

http://bits.wikimedia.org/static-1.21wmf1/skins/common/images/magnify-clip.pngThe explosion of Yamato's magazines

At 14:02 the order was belatedly given to abandon ship. By this time Yamato's speed had dropped to 10 knots (19 km/h; 12 mph) and her list was steadily increasing. Fires were raging out of control in some sections of the ship and alarms had begun to sound on the bridge warning of critical temperatures in the forward main battery magazines.^{[N 8]} Normal practice would have been to flood the magazines, preventing any explosion, but the pumping stations that should have performed this task had been rendered unusable by previous flooding.^[53]

At 14:05 Yahagi sank, the victim of twelve bombs and seven torpedoes. At the same time a final flight of torpedo bombers attacked Yamato from her starboard side. Her list was now such that the torpedoes—set to a depth of 6.1 m (20 ft)—struck the bottom of her hull. The battleship continued her inexorable roll to port.^[26] By 14:20 the power went out and her remaining 25 mm anti-aircraft guns began to drop into the sea. Three minutes later Yamato capsized. Her main 46 cm turrets fell off, and as she rolled it created a suction that drew swimming crewmen back towards the ship. When the roll reached approximately 120° one of the two bow magazines detonated in a tremendous explosion.^[53] The resulting mushroom cloud—over 6 kilometres (3.7 mi) high, was seen 160 kilometres (99 mi) away on Kyūshū.^[54]Yamato sank rapidly, losing an estimated 2,055 of her 2,332 crew, including Vice-Admiral Seiichi Itō, the fleet commander.^{[26][N 9]} The few survivors were recovered by the four surviving destroyers, which withdrew to Japan.^[26]

[Crazyman23]

Great post man.

 

Mini_Bolo, on 30 October 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

The reason the Musashi took so much punishment compared to the Yamato is because the torpedo planes hit her on both sides with torpedoes, which naturally counter-flooded the ship and kept Musashi from capsizing.

 

When she finally went down, the Musashi was heading towards one of the islands in the Philippines with the intention of beaching her.  They almost made it, too.

Good info Mini..so without even knowing it the Americans were keeping her afloat  :Smile_veryhappy:. Still she did take one heck of a beating

[Mermaid_Witch]

Crazyman23, on 30 October 2012 - 05:16 AM, said:

Great post man.



Good info Mini..so without even knowing it the Americans were keeping her afloat  :Smile_veryhappy:. Still she did take one heck of a beating

Yeah, it was because the Musashi took such a beating that the aircrews attacking the Yamato concentrated on hitting a single side.  They learned their lesson quickly and the results speak for themselves.

[JeeWeeJ]

Awesome info Tanz! :Smile_great:

[XxHellSpawnxX]

Great read!

I wonder if the this class in the game will have the secondary turrets amidships as well  :Smile_unsure: before moving on to all the AA mounts that we are use to seeing.

[Tanz]

Mini_Bolo, on 30 October 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

The reason the Musashi took so much punishment compared to the Yamato is because the torpedo planes hit her on both sides with torpedoes, which naturally counter-flooded the ship and kept Musashi from capsizing.

When she finally went down, the Musashi was heading towards one of the islands in the Philippines with the intention of beaching her.  They almost made it, too.

I didn't even look at it like that Mini, that does explain why she was up for a longer period of time  :Smile_veryhappy:. Yet even if Admiral Inoguchi had managed to beach her, she would have taken a harder beating  :Smile_sad:.
Good info as well Haguro  :Smile_honoring:.
I'm glad people enjoyed this one  :Smile_great:. It does make me want to go out and buy the 1/350 scale Musashi model kit   :Smile_smile: . Maybe even jump on my NF account to play my Yammy... :Smile_amazed: nah..not that desperate.
Am surprised Crag didn't put one of his little plane pics in this one  :Smile_playing:
If I can make it down to Kure, I plan on visiting the Yamato Museum  :Smile_ohmy: well at least I hope I can  :Smile_popcorn:

[Ariecho]

Fantastic post, Tanz, as usual (+1)

[thegreenbaron]

SimulationX, on 30 October 2012 - 01:54 AM, said:

but not tough enough. Carriers proved to be far more powerful

Actually it was because Musashi had deficient armor near the bow, and after three sorties, from six different carriers, including three fleet carriers, they figured this out and sank her.


Yamato was a little faster also partially due to the fact that, IIRC, over 400 aircraft from a bakers dozen carriers attacked her.  Further, they were not trying to sink aircraft with the splash.  The Yamato and Musashi were equipped with beehive rounds (think 18" canister rounds) that the Japanese thought would prove effective against torpedo bombers.


There's a lot of talk about carriers winning world war II, but they over look the fact that it was not because they were carriers that they won, it's that they outnumbered their opponents a dozen to one.

[Sampsonite]

He who lands the most rounds wins!! Doesn't matter how you get them there.

[jausten]

thegreenbaron, on 31 October 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

There's a lot of talk about carriers winning world war II, but they over look the fact that it was not because they were carriers that they won, it's that they outnumbered their opponents a dozen to one.

At least a half dozen battleships were sunk by carrier aircraft during WWII (not counting BBs that were sunk and later refloated), while no fast carriers were sunk--or even scratched--by battleships. (Gambier Bay was a jeep carrier, while Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, which sunk HMS Glorious, were BCs.). Carriers were the capital ships of WWII. And there were a lot more of them built because they were far more effective than battleships.

[esmaerla14]

The Aircraft Carriers are the most powerfull ships during the ww2 and the actuality

[Sampsonite]

Delivery is king!!! The Yamato class converted Aircraft carrier Shinano was sunk by just 4 torpedoes! And Prince of Wales was sunk by 5! A WWII PT boat carried 4 torpedoes so a 90 ft boat with 7 crewmembers had the potential to sink a battleship or carrier... Rather amusing, such giant ships being afraid of such a tiny vessel. So aircraft carrying torpedoes were no threat at the begining of the war to being king at the end.

[Mermaid_Witch]

Sampsonite, on 05 November 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

Delivery is king!!! The Yamato class converted Aircraft carrier Shinano was sunk by just 4 torpedoes! And Prince of Wales was sunk by 5! A WWII PT boat carried 4 torpedoes so a 90 ft boat with 7 crewmembers had the potential to sink a battleship or carrier... Rather amusing, such giant ships being afraid of such a tiny vessel. So aircraft carrying torpedoes were no threat at the begining of the war to being king at the end.

The Shinano was also crewed by civilians and didn't have the majority of its damage control equipment installed.  the sinking of an aircraft carrier that's not even finished by four torpedoes isn't exactly giving a fair shake to the carrier or the torpedoes.

As for PT boats...   The problem with PT boats is that they're kind of crappy delivery vehicles for torpedoes when going up against capital ships.  Hell, about the only thing they're good for hitting is merchant shipping.  Anything else has the firepower to keep the PT boats at a safe distance.  You really need only look at the Battle of Surigao Strait to see the limited effectiveness of PT boats against larger warships.  39 PT boats were involved in the Surigao Strait action against the Fuso and Yamashiro's battle group.  All together, they launched a total of 34 torpedoes, of which only 2 struck.  And those two torpedoes struck a crippled destroyer and a light cruiser.  Keep in mind, this attack was done at night time, the ideal time for PT boats to attack warships.  And even with the advantage in sheer number and time of day, they were still unable to make any effective launches on a pair of decrepit old battleships that even the Japanese considered to be almost useless.

[thegreenbaron]

Mini_Bolo, on 05 November 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

Hell, about the only thing they're good for hitting is merchant shipping.  Anything else has the firepower to keep the PT boats at a safe distance.  

The glaring problem with this being Germany's schnellboote, which continued to claim both merchant shipping and warships into 1945, outlasting even the '*U boat menace'.

"....the schnellboote sank 101 merchant ships totaling 214,728 tons. They also sank 12 destroyers, 11 minesweepers, eight landing ships, six MTBs, a torpedo boat, a minelayer, one submarine and a number of small merchant craft. They damaged two cruisers, five destroyers, three landing ships, a repair ship, a naval tug and numerous merchant vessels. Mines laid by schnellboote sank 37 merchant ships totaling 148,535 tons, a destroyer, two minesweepers and four landing ships.",  Schnellboot in Action, Connelly and Krakow, pg 54

Mini_Bolo, on 05 November 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

You really need only look at the Battle of Surigao Strait to see the limited effectiveness of PT boats against larger warships.  39 PT boats were involved in the Surigao Strait action against the Fuso and Yamashiro's battle group.  All together, they launched a total of 34 torpedoes, of which only 2 struck.

Actually, I don't recommend looking at US PT boats for the potential of small attack vessels.  They were big, poorly armored, and inaccurate.  They operated poorly on open water compared to both other Allied torpedo boats, and their Axis counterparts.  Schnellboot Flotilla 9 engaged the Normandy invasion fleet, firing the T3d 'Dachshund'  from outside the effective range of Allied fire.

[Schwieger]

Give the Musashi American damage control as well as AAA and targeting capabilities and it would have been much more difficult to sink.  :Smile_trollface:

[Sampsonite]

I wasn't saying that Battleships need to be afraid of PT's or that it was even a good idea to try such a thing. More to the point that at the begining of the war Capital ships where the way to project power and by the end of the war the delivery method was as small as an airplane or PT.

[GranTofino]

Its IJN(Imperial Japanese Navy) Musashi, you're so smart.

[Crazyman23]

Having to use wiki for this:

 

Neither the Third Reich's Kriegsmarine nor the Imperial Japanese Navy used ship prefixes. Some English-language writers use prefixes like "DKM" (for "Deutsche Kriegsmarine") and "HIJMS" (for "His Imperial Japanese Majesty's Ship") or "IJN" (for "Imperial Japanese Navy") for consistency with "HMS" and "USS".

 

Sorry if you dont like him using HIJMS...Also you don't come off to good with the "you're so smart" line.

[Windhover118]

stevensw, on 10 November 2012 - 05:13 AM, said:

Its IJN(Imperial Japanese Navy) Musashi, you're so smart.

Crazyman is correct. Neither Japan or Germany used ship prefixes during WWII. We just use them on this forum for the sake of discussion. I would like to take this oportunity to request that both of you keep things civil here. If you see something that you think is wrong, please point it out in a polite way. You will find that many people here are open to constructive criticism. If you see someone acting in a way that can be deemed inapropriate, please refrain from calling them anything. Just point out they were being rather rude and try not to escalate anything. If we all can do that, this forum will remain a place for discussion.