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Yorcke

Co-op Play at Tier 8

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I just suffered through 3 straight defeats playing a New Orleans in Co-op at Tier 8

Our teams just melted away with hardly a peep from anyone. I don't think that fighting bots at this level is that difficult, but our teams just couldn't manage to do jacksh*t.

Also our team had 6 bots in one game - they can't do jacksh*t either and just melt like turds in the rain.

Is there even any point in playing C0-0p at this Tier - just seems like a total waste of time.

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Majority of the playerbase doesn't play co-op. It's just not economically worthwhile(nor should it be).


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I just suffered through 3 straight defeats playing a New Orleans in Co-op at Tier 8

Our teams just melted away with hardly a peep from anyone. I don't think that fighting bots at this level is that difficult, but our teams just couldn't manage to do jacksh*t.

Also our team had 6 bots in one game - they can't do jacksh*t either and just melt like turds in the rain.

Is there even any point in playing C0-0p at this Tier - just seems like a total waste of time.

Comments?

 

Money losing proposition without premium, and even then just breaking even at tier 8. WG does expect you to pay for the right to play top tier ships in co-op or random

 


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I play Coop at any tier. Money is not the object. Quick fun or testing is.

 

Indeed, you can lose a match easily in T8 Coop if your team is crap.

 


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Actually I see a lot of T8 guys in Co-op. More common than many think I believe. I personally prefer it as it is less stress and the people, on the whole, seem nicer and more willing to cooperate.

 

I actually find Random to have more crappy teams( one side always smucks the other - almost never a good match when I have tried it ). Always seems one team is wiped out and the other has 6-10 guys left. Just isn't fun because the people on the losing team all blame each other even when it isn't anyone's fault. It is why I hate it. It is just a game. Do your best and if you win you win and if you lose you lose. When it is taken so serious it isn't fun and not worth playing IMO.

 

Co-op may be easier but is isn't the cake walk so many claim. Lots of guys who start the game in chat about how they are going to destroy the BOTS who die fast( who then blame the team and not themselves - that isn't unique to Random ). BOTS as a rule are much better shots than humans( sometimes I swear they never miss )and they can be like a dog on a bone if they focus you.

 

As to payout. yes, it is less in Co-op for sure. I have played it with T7 Fiji and you can make money most games or break even at the least unless you do absolutely nothing. They lowered the service fee in Co-op recently and that helps. I wish they would lower it to equal the reduction they use for XP and Credits which seems to be about 50% of Random. Less ships to farm damage on and the games go quicker so you use less resources. Service Fee should be far less than it is.

 

I don't get those who look down at Co-op and think no one should ever play it? People should be able to play the game version they wish. If it is PVP that is fine. If it is PVE that is fine too. I don't see why it should matter.  

Edited by AdmiralThunder

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The payout difference between tier 7 and 8 in PvE is huge. I have no trouble making credits at tier 7 but recently just unlocked my Benson (tier 8 DD) and my first game in her had an average game, 50k ish damage and I lost 56 thousand credits....... Will only play tier 8 now with the extra credits flag, reduced service flag, first win bonus, and premium time. Just not worth it any other way IMHO. Add to that the upgrades for the ship are almost 20,000 exp each and there are 4 or 5 of them, just makes it more unlikely I will have any interest playing at tier 8 in anything but my premium ships and only use them to grind captains on first win bonuses. It is punishing and there is no real incentive to continue to grind up other than "cool ships".


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Coop at T6 or even T7 is too easy.  At T8, you can be in for an occasional nasty surprise.  I consider this the most fun tier for coop.

 

One reason why human loses to bots happen is when the humans don't support the friendly bots in their team when the bots advance. 

 

Friendly bots tend to be a disadvantage because they are usually picked at the lowest tier --- if you are Tier 8, they are likely to be Tier 6 --- and are always cruisers and destroyers.  

Edited by Eisennagel

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at t8,  i love farming salt with cruisers in random.    I seem to be more consistent with Cruisers at t8 compared to other classes.  even NO  does fine  with the buff.  not as easy as chapayev, but  playable and more of a closer range ambusher.

 

I would avoid coop unless you are retraining.   you will be filled with bot on your team and that makes it even tougher.


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Co-op is not as easy as most would suggest.  if you make a mistake, they will punish you for it. an it seems they never miss.  Team work is key when there are only a couple of actual players on you team.  Lower player levels during the week combined with high costs, means that the chances for a bot team is high.  I used to only play co-op because i could never connect at the start. I play it now because it is less stressful.


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I must be lucky because even when there are a lot of T8 on the team in Co-op it is human. Very seldom do I see any friendly BOTS. Pretty much only see that if I am playing at some off hour. I do agree with the poster above who mentioned that it is always DD or CL/CA. Never seen a friendly BOT BB or CV.

Edited by AdmiralThunder

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Bots are very aggressive in co-op games. Most of time you'll be fighting enemies around 10km or less, if your ship doesn't have torpedo, sometimes it'll be awkward. If you try to play safe and stay back, then you'll get too many bad games because your team-mates get all the kills or your team-mates get killed too easily and you are left 1 vs. 6 or 7.

 

New Orleans is just not very fun in co-op because it doesn't has torps, on other hand, Hipper is great in co-op with so many fast reloading torps.


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I have to play co-op if I want a t10 match because of the time of day that I play - there's usually only 3k people on and the queue times are ridiculous.

 

The bots on the other team are 10000% accurate and your team generally melts, it's true.

 

I also find that bot team mates are less useless than real people lately.

Edited by SalvoSanta

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My experience has been:

  • You end up with bots on your coop team when the server population is low...
  • There seem to be fewer coop players at high tier,   You lose credits at high tier if you have a weak match.
  • Somehow, some of the bots seem to play better than others, dodge torps..
  • Coop is relaxing and fun, mostly no salt...I suspect that the average age is a bit older than random..

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I played about 40% of my total games in co-op.

 

Yes, bots are aggressive with precision aiming. Their hit rate probably somewhere around 70%. Kind of good for me to practice WASD, if I can dodged most of their shells I can probably do the same thing in random.

 

Last evening I took the Atago out for fun. There were about 6,000 players on, so we only have 2 human on our team. As soon as the battle started, bots starting to steamrolled us two. Later only 1 bot on our side left vs 2 on bot side. Somehow our bot managed to sink both of the enemy ships and we won the match….yay!!! :P

 


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I have to play co-op if I want a t10 match because of the time of day that I play - there's usually only 3k people on and the queue times are ridiculous.

 

The bots on the other team are 10000% accurate and your team generally melts, it's true.

 

I also find that bot team mates are less useless than real people lately.

 

​Anyone who says Co-op is easy, they are just BOTS, hasn't played it lately. You nailed it, they are insanely OP accurate. Even with incoming fire alert and such you have a hard time not getting hit by them when they shoot at you. AND when they do hit it does butt loads of damage. They don't miss and they hit you hard time and again. Also, they start fires super easy. Can't count the times I get set on fire by 1 shell from a DD and it is the very 1st hit of the game. It's like WTH? LOL 

 

Co-op is like this...

 

Start moving, get detected, get targeted( start WASD ), incoming fire alert( WASD like mad ), get nailed time after time. I play mostly Co-op but have played Random as well. Far and away the BOTS are superior shots. They are super aggressive and will hunt you like a pack of rabid dogs as well. They also are very good about staying bow on/angled when chasing you and they always use the right ammo choice.

 

Random is more challenging because humans are unpredictable and the BOTS not so much but that is getting better too. Really there are 2 things they do that hurts the BOTS ability to win more. One is to run straight for too long vs. humans, which let's them get one shot more, but that is improving. The other thing is to stay focused on one target and ignore others that make more sense. It's like I am at 14km in my healthy Cleveland supporting 2 BB's taking on a BOT BB with my HE. Both BB's are within 5km of the enemy BB but it shoots at me 14km away. That makes no sense. Yes, the HE from the Cleveland is bad but those big BB guns right next to you are the bigger threat and the chances of one shoting me are very small. .

 

I suspect if they ever correct those 2 issues and make them maneuver more and switch targets more Co-op will be a whole new game. BUT, with the vastly superior accuracy and super aggressive play Co-op is not a cake walk even now like so many claim. I see a lot of T8 players in chat waiting for the game to start spouting off about how easy BOTS are and how they will just Lemming down the middle to their doom. Usually they are the 1st players to die.. LOL. 

 


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Posted (edited) · Report post

Friendly bots tend to be a disadvantage because they are usually picked at the lowest tier --- if you are Tier 8, they are likely to be Tier 6 --- and are always cruisers and destroyers.

 There's a advantage to having bots on your team; They're never AFK!  :great:

 

 If you want to learn how to survive the undivided attention of multiple enemies, you'll learn  it in Co-Op.

 

Edited by ReddNekk

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Majority of the playerbase doesn't play co-op. It's just not economically worthwhile(nor should it be).

 

Yes, yes it should be.  If players could lose the PVP is masterrace woody, yeah, it should be. 

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Yes, yes it should be.  If players could lose the PVP is masterrace woody, yeah, it should be. 

 

​I agree. People should be able to play the mode they want to and there should be no financial consequence, as there is now, for choosing Co-op over Random( at least from say T7+ where service fees are too high in Co-op ).

 

If you want to learn how to survive the undivided attention of multiple enemies, you'll learn  it in Co-Op.

 

AMEN! I think playing a lot of Co-op has actually made me a better defensive player when I do play Random. Those BOTS can get on you like a pack of wolves and they are relentless. Teaches you how to WASD while 4, 5, 6+ enemies are shooting at you in a hurry.


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Yes, yes it should be.  If players could lose the PVP is masterrace woody, yeah, it should be. 

 

 

Yes, yes it should be.  If players could lose the PVP is masterrace woody, yeah, it should be. 

 

If AI were actually difficult and it was harder to get 90% win rates in co-op i'd advocate for better rewards but as it stands co-op is just too easy.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Bots are dumb when it comes to strategy though. I've had the whole bot team chase my Gnevny away from the base making it easy for the rest of the team to take them out. They do love to focus fire though and are accurate.

Edited by Kizarvexis

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If AI were actually difficult and it was harder to get 90% win rates in co-op i'd advocate for better rewards but as it stands co-op is just too easy.

 

​I don't have a problem with reduced payout for playing Co-op if that is what WG wants to do. Don't even object to you and others feeling it is too easy although I see a lot of guys  who die 1st that were spouting that same feeling as the game started( who then blame everyone else because they died - Co-op and Random have that in common LOL ).

 

So I am okay with making less becaue I choose Co-op most games. However, the service fee needs to be adjusted to the same level as the reduction in credits and XP earned. THAT is something that is unfair about Co-op. Credits and XP seem to be about 40-50% at best of what you get vs a similar performance in Random; and it wouldn't surprise me if it is even less than that. However, the service fee isn't reduced even close to that much. It was the same there for a while, and I believe now it is a 25% reduction, but it is not in line with what it should be. If I only get 50% of the credits and XP I would get in Random my service fee should only be 50% as well.

 

I believe WG purposely keeps the service fee high however to make it difficult to play Co-op and survive as far as resources go( T7+ - even a problem in Random at extreme high tiers ). IMO they do this to try and force people into Random. I find that stupid tbh. Co-op is a mode offered in the game and if that is where a person wants to play then they should be able to and not be purposely hit with a higher % based service fee than other modes. You have far fewer ships to farm damage on thus you don't have the ability to do enough at high tiers to break even many times. Also, if you want to try and bring realism into it you would use less fuel, fire fewer shells/torps, etc... so you are using fewer resources that need replacing.

 

All Co-op needs is an adjust the post battle payout and fees so they are fair( even if reduced )and then everyone who wants to play WOWS can be happy. I don't see how anyone loses in that scenario. If the answer is it makes Random queue times longer if more play Co-op I would counter that argument with the following. 1st off, that is a very selfish outlook for the Random preferring folks. Don't put your desires above others. Secondly, even with the less fair economy in Co-op it still hasn't forced everyone to abandon it for Random to make more( I seldom see friendly BOTS in Co-op even in T8 matches ).

 

Lots of players who just don't want to play Random so making Co-op more fair economically isn't going to hurt the queue time for Random in any real way. Should people who just prefer the less stress, friendlier, and more fun venue of Co-op face harsher economics just to make the wait time shorter for a game for those who like a different mode? Is that really fair?


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Bots are dumb when it comes to strategy though. I've had the whole bot team chase my Gnevny away from the base making it easy for the rest of the team to take them out. They do love to focus fire though and are accurate.

 

​I don't play a lot of Random but the term dumb can be applied to many in Random too. LOL Plenty there who haveno clue about strategy and tactics as well. Co-op and Random are different due to the AI. Doesn't make one easier or better just different.

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I've done coop a few times just to get away from PvP after a frustrating losing streak - either poor teams or my own poor performance. I have also had issues with the matchmaker taking too long and went to coop at odd hours. I've never found the gameplay to be good, prefer random battles. If random battles are going bad, I just say go to lower tier pvp and ignore chat.


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Bots are not dumb, I'm telling you. I was in Nberg with low HP badly wounded. I was about 15km from him, it was Arizona. There were at least 2 ships on my team near by, within 6 or 7km from Arizona bot.

 

Bot didn't bother to shoot them, he came after me because bot knew a ship with 1 HP left is still a threat to him, so to fix that bot must eliminate me who can still rain HE rounds on him. Bot knew what they are doing. :)

 


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