The Counter Strike Mentality

[KalishniKat]

I'm referring to the "Rush B" mentality that seem so prevalent lately. No strategy, no actual looking at the map from any kind of tactical point of view. Someone (could be a 12 year old) says "Lets go to C" and its a lemming parade.No staying behind to defend the cap or carrier, no scouting to look to see where the enemy fleet might be...nope..a big parade to a location because some said they want to go there. Try and stay behind to defend the cap or watch the flanks and you're dead because you're alone. Lately it seems most games go this way. 

 

 

[HowitzerBlitzer]

No staying behind to defend the cap or carrier

The carrier should move with the fleet, it's you're job to not be left behind. With all these islands in the new maps it shouldn't be a problem to hide behind the attack.

[Misniso]

It's a good general rule of thumb as long as the players are adaptive to changing the plan as more information becomes available (enemy positions are known, signs that a flanking action is going on).  

 

But yeah, if it's just a lemming action where ships go one at a time into a meat grinder, that rarely ends well.  

 

I mean, we almost lost today when the enemy decided to go in-force toward one side of the map.  Of the fleet we sent that way, we were barely able to extract a Colorado.  Everyone else got wasted.  If it hadn't been for our fleet's BBs willingness to leap into the jaws of death and take down two ships each before sinking we would have lost.

[LittleWhiteMouse]

Don't deride Lemming Trains.  There are far worse things a team can do than decide to stick together and all go one way.

[Macabe]

Now are they being lemmings or embracing RU Meta of death balling?

[HazeGrayUnderway]

The carrier should move with the fleet, it's you're job to not be left behind. With all these islands in the new maps it shouldn't be a problem to hide behind the attack.

 

Carriers moving with the fleet can only feasibly be done at low tiers.  Because as you get higher in the tiers their concealment gets worse.  With air traffic the CV can easily be spotted.  As you climb up the tiers, all ship gun ranges start getting pretty far and a spotted CV under 20km is going to get a lot of gunfire.

 

"The carrier should move with the fleet" and you risk this happening (very old screenshot but it gets the point across)

 

 

 

 

In one salvo, the most powerful ship in the match was deleted.  The CV was too close to the front and friendly aircraft spotted her.  I'm not even that great a BB gunner, and I know for a fact some will pick you off with ease even with a few extra km on that range.

 

An island to hide behind is a terrible idea.  Park behind that island then you're a sitting duck for an airstrike or when a DD gets a drop on you.  There is nothing juicier to an airstrike or a DD attack run than a behemoth ship sitting still.  The CV needs to keep moving.  It takes a CV a good while to go from a full stop to moving again.  But he cannot be so far back that rearming times for planes are longer, he can't be so far forward that any spotting of the CV will get him shot up.

[TornadoADV]

I find that death  balling is less the issue and more an unwillingness to disengage from a flank to stall a base cap. Mostly because said people willingly give up the extra dosh to be earned in the clean up phase of the match when the enemy is broken.

[JervisBay]

Seems to me that it doesn't matter what game-plan any individual chooses, he (or she) will be castigated by half the group for doing the wrong thing as soon as things start turning pear-shaped.

 

Turn comms off (or just ignore it) and do your own thing. "All for none and one for himself"....as the musketeers almost said.

[_WaveRider_]

Remember the objective.

 

I've seen many Lemming trains work because on a particular map if you catch the enemy who have split unawares, you can win.

 

Just watch out that those you engage with don't distract you whilst the rest of their team grab your base!

[LemonadeWarrior]

 

Carriers moving with the fleet can only feasibly be done at low tiers.  Because as you get higher in the tiers their concealment gets worse.  With air traffic the CV can easily be spotted.  As you climb up the tiers, all ship gun ranges start getting pretty far and a spotted CV under 20km is going to get a lot of gunfire.

 

"The carrier should move with the fleet" and you risk this happening (very old screenshot but it gets the point across.

 

In one salvo, the most powerful ship in the match was deleted.  The CV was too close to the front and friendly aircraft spotted her.  I'm not even that great a BB gunner, and I know for a fact some will pick you off with ease even with a few extra km on that range.

 

I looked at the screenshots, but all it says is that the carrier didn't look at his minimap. If I were a carrier player I would have been near I9, seems to be the best spot, also near his fleet.​

 

​It is annoying to help a carrier, because this will break up the team. Plus when they get there the carrier is dead, and the other part of the team also died, because they were outgunned...

​It is better to use the carrier as a bait in such a case and make a hell of a push for it.

[Snargfargle]

I've found that the best I can hope for in most games is for everyone to be skilled enough to see what needs to be done and then to do it without being told. Far too many times, I've seen players make simple requests or issue simple commands only to be met with "Don't tell me what to do you &*)!" or "Learn to play the @*&%! game!" Being a CV player is especially taxing because you are going to be requested to scout and provide AA cover for every other player on your team, most of whom will then lambaste you for having the "wrong" plane loadout or for playing a USN carrier with less than a 15-point captain.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

 

I looked at the screenshots, but all it says is that the carrier didn't look at his minimap. If I were a carrier player I would have been near I9, seems to be the best spot, also near his fleet.​

 

​It is annoying to help a carrier, because this will break up the team. Plus when they get there the carrier is dead, and the other part of the team also died, because they were outgunned...

 

EXACTLY.  The screenshots are to show the folly of "The Carrier should be with the team" because the team is in freakin' GUN RANGE.  Even a few km behind the team is dangerous because BBs eventually get the capability to reach out that far.  Some of them can make very surprising hits at range.  Some Cruisers can reach out pretty far with accuracy.  The CV needs to be further back but not too far.

 

IMO, the CV should not have an escort.  That Cruiser should be giving AA power to the Battleships which are the preferred meals of a Carrier, or a bit of AA to the DDs which get picked on as they cap by airplanes..  The Carrier has its own AA and / or fighters.  By all means, when things are collapsing an AA Cruiser for the CV may be necessary but in general, even when I get offers of an escort for my CV, I tell them to cover the BBs or DDs instead.

[LemonadeWarrior]

 

EXACTLY.  The screenshots are to show the folly of "The Carrier should be with the team" because the team is in freakin' GUN RANGE.  Even a few km behind the team is dangerous because BBs eventually get the capability to reach out that far.  Some of them can make very surprising hits at range.  Some Cruisers can reach out pretty far with accuracy.  The CV needs to be further back but not too far.

 

IMO, the CV should not have an escort.  That Cruiser should be giving AA power to the Battleships which are the preferred meals of a Carrier, or a bit of AA to the DDs which get picked on as they cap by airplanes..  The Carrier has its own AA and / or fighters.  By all means, when things are collapsing an AA Cruiser for the CV may be necessary but in general, even when I get offers of an escort for my CV, I tell them to cover the BBs or DDs instead.

 

​Darn, still a bit early. I get your point now

[Palladia]

Don't deride Lemming Trains.  There are far worse things a team can do than decide to stick together and all go one way.

 

Lemme stress this.  At this point you have all guns pointing at the same or close to the same targets.  Fairly often a lemming train will fail at objectives just to win the match because they wiped the enemy team.  When a lemming train runs into half the enemy team because they tactically split to take multiple points ((Which is a completely intelligent tactic)) they tend to wipe out said half of the team with minimal losses just because of the sheer flood of shells.

[khaenn35]

 

Lemme stress this.  At this point you have all guns pointing at the same or close to the same targets.  Fairly often a lemming train will fail at objectives just to win the match because they wiped the enemy team.  When a lemming train runs into half the enemy team because they tactically split to take multiple points ((Which is a completely intelligent tactic)) they tend to wipe out said half of the team with minimal losses just because of the sheer flood of shells.

So... Lemming training is a good tactic?

[LittleWhiteMouse]

So... Lemming training is a good tactic?

 

So long as you can point said Lemming Train at at least one of three objectives in a Domination map and secure it?  Yes.   When you combine Lemming Trains with the worst phenomenon in World of Warships, then there's no saving the match.  I am, of course, referring to having a team populated by people who are all too handsome to risk having their chiselled features marred by combat.  Yes, they may have hit the "Battle" button, but they can't risk damaging their ships in a fight.  So they pointedly avoid combat, and objectives, and getting close to violence.  Oh, they might shoot back, but only while they run away.

[khaenn35]

 

So long as you can point said Lemming Train at at least one of three objectives in a Domination map and secure it?  Yes.   When you combine Lemming Trains with the worst phenomenon in World of Warships, then there's no saving the match.  I am, of course, referring to having a team populated by people who are all too handsome to risk having their chiselled features marred by combat.  Yes, they may have hit the "Battle" button, but they can't risk damaging their ships in a fight.  So they pointedly avoid combat, and objectives, and getting close to violence.  Oh, they might shoot back, but only while they run away.

Actually, mine was pointing out how his point was stating that lemming trains decimated a team splitting in two, but yes, I agree.

[JSFWRX85]

Here is the problem i find with lemming trains. In theory they work, in practice..not so much. For a lemming train to succeed, they cant stop, the push needs to be constant towards the objective. This rarely happens, the first sign of resistance and those in front will stop or turn around, and its like a domino set with the rest. The moment that happens, its doomed. 

[HazeGrayUnderway]

Once a Lemming Train loses momentum, or worse, the guys that were the heart of the aggressive push that the more timid players followed are now gone... The Lemming Train is over, the match is a loss, the opposing team's group that was sweeping up all the other caps are now coming to flank or attack from behind.

 

Say good night, Gracie!

[Crucis]

Actually, people above are being too literal with the phrase about carriers moving with the fleet.  The idea isn't that the carrier should move as part of the fleet's formation so much that the carrier should shadow the fleet formation, keeping their fleet between them and the enemy fleet and staying far out of gun range of the enemy.

 

As for lemming trains, I think that the problem with them is what JSFWRX85 above identifies.  Lemming trains need to push HARD ... constantly.  They can't let an outnumbered defending force slow their advance.  They have to push into the outnumbered defenders and smash them fast.  However, this requires a degree of teamwork that rarely exists in pub matches.  This kind of push is far more likely to be seen in a clan wars environment.

 

 

[Pillager_Serj]

I've run Point in my Amagi with an NC around A-side from the North in 2 brothers, and it was an utter stomping because neither I nor the N.C. stopped, the secondary lines pushing in behind us didn't stop, the N.C sank, we lost another CA and maybe a BB in the middle of the group but that wave of artillery washing over the weak side of their flank caused an immediate retreat from the D-side and what little forces that didn't push A easily capped and took pot shots at their remnants. it was a glorious day for team work 

[atPrick__]

360º NO SCOPE!!!!

[Cobraclutch]

Personally I find CS has more strategy and skill then this game lol. So I would welcome so more of that mentality. 

 

 

[Super_S1X]

Ranked is a different animal than randoms. Defending the carrier, if you're unfortunate enough to be with a carrier in ranked, isn't as much of a priority as seizing the initiative at the caps. By showing numbers at a favorable cap zone, you can psychologically bully the other team into changing their plans and having to go to an unfavorable cap zone. Scouting and capping are done simultaneously, and if you have a CV, they're responsible for their own situational awareness.

[weesel_sniper]

The bad part is when they get that one cap and just sit there and die while other team has other two caps.