Admiral Hipper vs Prinz Eugen - a full comparison

[SireneRacker]

This thread is only for informing the community, at neither point will I ask for Buffs or Nerfs for any of the ships. Just facts and gameplay experience held next to each other. Okay? Also this entire text was written based on information from the Client version 0.6.1.1.

 

Now that we are through that, let's get to the topic. Like the title suggests I have made a full scale comparison, leaving no detail out, between these two sister ships. Why? Because I can. And there are some major differences between them which can and will make a noticable difference when playing one of them.

 

(I will shorten the names to Hipper and Eugen to avoid cramps in my hands)

 

 Starting off is the one where we have a variety of factors which all play a role, some more than others.

 

Easiest one is the Hitpool and it goes without saying that the Eugen surpasses the Hipper with 1,200 points. I've only had one game where these few points made a difference, but in the end that difference allowed me to deal 8k more damage so it can help you, but it's situational.

 

Armor is a bit longer.

First on our list is the turret armor. To make it precise the roof armor of the No. 2 and No. 3 turret. On the Hipper the roof armor has a 70mm thickness at any point. On the Eugen we have an armor scheme similar to the No. 1 and No. 4 turrets where the slope facing forward has 105mm, the side slopes have 80mm and the rear and deck armor has 70mm. This gives the turrets on the Eugen a small kick in survivability.

 

Second point is the bow armor. While the bow armor of both ships is stronger than on any other Cruiser at their Tier, the Eugen does not have the 40mm plate extended until the front of the bow. A small, yet noticable section at the waterline remains at only 25mm making bow on citadels more likely than on the Hipper. Directly from the front the section still is small and I haven't yet noticed how this section has killed my in a situation where the Hipper would've just laughed.

 

Third point is the citadel protection. And again to make it precise I mean the citadel slopes. While the Belt armor is still thin the Eugen has a 40mm citadel slope compared to Hipper's 30mm. This could theoretically make Yamato shells bounce, theoretically. I haven't really noticed the extra 10mm saving me but for the protocol I have mentioned them.

 

Moving away from the armor we get the Torpedo Protection. But it is identical! I can hear you thinking. No, not really. While the reduction percentage is identical, the area covered isn't. At the aft the Torpedo bulge on the Eugen goes to ~ half of the barrel of the No.4 turret. On the Hipper it ends directly after the No. 4 turret. This gives the Eugen a better protection.

 

The last point is easy to overlook, but not today. Hitbox. This one is rather hard to judge, but I will try. The area from the front until the end of the main tower is pretty much the same. Behind the smokestack the Hipper has a large box in a place where we will only find thin air on the Eugen, meaning that it slightly increases your hitbox. At the aft superstructure we have a box on the Eugen that is not on the Hipper and the other way around, so I would call it a draw there. Leaves us with the box behind the smokestack on the Hipper. I have mentioned it but I will ignore it since it's influence is not noticable in any way. Maybe one shell out of 500 will miss, maybe even less.

Hipper's superstructure

 

 

These two pictures show the hitboxes of the superstructure, but you can also see the area covered by the Torpedo bulges.

 

Another difference in the hitbox is the larger bow of the Eugen, but I will treat it like the box on the Hipper: to small to make a difference.

To sum it up, I think Eugen holds in general a slight advantage over the Hipper in terms of Survivability.

 

Starting with the artillery

 

Both ships carry the same amount of rifles which fire the same round at the same RoF at the same muzzle velocity with the same dispersion. So what makes them different?

 

For one we have the range. The Client gives you the number 200m more for the Hipper, some testing gives different numbers. Firing over the bow the Hipper has a range of 17.77km while Eugen has 17.61km. This gives us a difference of 160m for the Hipper. Firing a perfect broadside the Hipper can reach out to 17.65km while Eugen will "only" reach 17.48km, having 170m less. Is this difference noticable? Not really. I rarely sit at max range tring to snipe everything which enters my Zeiss optics, but I did notice in some cases where I could've fired a second earlier if I just had that little bit more range.

 

In terms of Field of Fire Hipper and Eugen are identical, all four turrets on both ships have a 290° turning space.

 

Speaking of Field of Fire. In theory the Eugen's middle secondary gun has a better Field of Fire. Why? you might think, just listen to my words.

Hipper

 

 

If I would ask you to look at the crane that is in front of the mid-ship 105mm gun, you would notice how it should block the Field of Fire for the mount when firing towards the bow. This is a difference we can easily ignore however, because if you rely on your Secondaries that much you are doing stuff wrong. A lot of it.

 

Now leaving the artillery and moving on the the Torpedoes. Same story as it is with the guns, same amount, same RoF, same range, same damage and even the same Detection range. Why bring them up then? Because of their Field of Fire.

 

 

It is obvious that the Eugen has much better firing arcs at the aft of the ship. If there is a difference at the bow, I haven't noticed it yet. But the aft one is as clear as it can be. Making some testing runs the firing arcs at the bow are 37° on the Hipper and 25° on the Eugen. I believe this is on the level of being noticable in some situations.

To sum it up, in terms of main guns the Hipper holds the advantage while the Eugen is superior in terms of Torpedoes. Secondaries are not worth a mention.

 

 A short topic but I think it should be mentioned. They both have identical long and medium range AAA. The short range AA on the Hipper is stronger by 9 points at 2km range. Yet both Hipper and Eugen slaughter planes when being equipped correctly. When being played as a support vessel (the way I think a Hipper-class works the best) the short range has no play.

 

In terms of placement I favor the Eugen because I have the feeling that a lot of shells land at the rear of my ship and there we have a concentration of 40mm guns on the Hipper.

 

What might be only a cosmetical difference is the mounting of the quad 20mm guns. The ones on the Eugen have a splinter-protection shield which should give them a better protection against close HE hits. But if WG has implemented such a system is unknown to me.

Summing it up, I will say that the differences are unnoticable. The main damage dealers in AA-warfare here are the 105mm and 40mm guns, not the 20mm guns.

 

 An interesting topic, especially when you look at the hidden numbers that noone pays attention to.

 

Both have the same designed top speed of 32 knots and they also don't exceed it like for example the Ibuki (which reaches 35.1kn). The reverse speed is 12.8kn for both ships.

 

If we look at the acceleration time we will see a difference. Two times were taken, from 0-16kn and from 16-32kn. The results are 16s and 32s for the Hipper while the Eugen surprisingly is slower with 17s and 35s. A small difference, but it sure surprised me. Does it make a difference?

 

Turning speed, another factor which gets ignored often. Yet it determines how fast you good you are at dodging Torpedoes. I let the ship accelerate to full speed, set the rudder to half-turn and looked at the lowest speed it would reach. After that turn the rudder in full-mode and take the lowest speed as well. Hipper would keep 26.4kn with half-rudder and 25.5kn during a hard turn, Eugen would keep 26.6kn and 25.7kn respectively. Not a difference I would mention since it is insignificantly low.

 

Now looking at the Rudder shift time. The difference in rudder shift is 0.2s in Hipper's favor, but like the turning speed it is too low to be worth a mention.

 

Turning radius is a different matter however. The Eugen's turning radius is 30m larger or to put it into perspective, 4% larger. I haven't noticed the difference like I did for example between Amagi and Nagato, but it is a theoretical difference.

Summing it up, the Hipper has a slight advantage in terms of maneuverability.

 

 Like the AAA a short topic but it definitly needs a mention. The Hipper has a 700m better Detection range against surface vessels giving her a clear advantage over the Eugen. In terms of Air Detection we have a 400m difference, so also a clear advantage for the Hipper.

To sum it up, Hipper dominates here.

 

 This is the section which covers how profitable Hipper and Eugen are.

 

In terms of Credit income we have two differences. First one is the maintenance fee that you have to pay every game. Hipper will cost you 75k every game while Eugen only costs 52.5k, earning you an extra 22.5k every game.

 

Aside from the maintanance fee we have a difference at the permanent camouflage. Hippers camouflage will reduce the service costs by 10% while Eugen increases the Credit income by 10%. What is better? An example from a game in the Hipper. I earned a total of 167.4k of Credits. 83.1k were taken away by the service costs, leaving me at a total 84.3k in the end. Hipper's camouflage bonus would've reduced the amount taken away by 8.3k so I would've earned 167.4k - 74.8k = 92.6k. With Eugen's camouflage bonus I would've earned 184.1k - 83.1k = 101k. So in this case Eugen's camouflage bonus is superior. If you fail in a match Hipper's bonus will give you a slight help but it is not effective when performing well.

 

XP earning, especially for Commanders. In terms of ship-XP both have a camouflage bonus of +50% making them equal. In terms of Commander XP however the Prinz Eugen has a stock 50% bonus which adds up with the camouflage bonus allowing her to earn twice the Commander XP. This is a clear message.

In terms of profitability the Eugen holds a clear advantage.

 

 I think this topic must not be left out, if only because the eyes want some pleasure as well.

 

So we have five aspects which are basically different.

 

First one is the bow. Eugen's bow is a lot more elegant which makes her cut through the waves like a german longsword. Hipper's bow is a straight line which is nowhere close to the Eugen. A clear point for Eugen.

 

Second one are the turrets, or more what is on top of them. Hipper has clean turret roofs which give her a smooth look, Eugen however has 40mm mounts on her No. 2 and no. 4 turret which are a bit awkward. A point for Hipper.

 

Third one are the rangefinders. Especially the first and third rangefinder are a lot better on the Eugen, making her look like a Battleship. No wonder why the British mistook her for the Bismarck. This one goes to the Eugen.

 

Fourth one is the smokestack and how the quad 20mm got integrated. Both have their charms, Hipper has a platform like it was on the Bismarck, Eugen has something like an MG-nest. I would call it a tie here.

 

Fifth and last one is the permanent camouflage. Both have a beautiful one and I will ignore the ugly Adler camouflage on Eugen. Hipper offers us a three-color camouflage in a dark tone. The dark green does well with the gray. Eugen offers us the typical stripe camouflage that still looks beautiful though it is simple. I can't decide here as well. A tie.

In a summary, two points for Eugen, one for Hipper and two ties. A clear advantage for the Eugen.

 

TL;DR:

Survivability: Prinz Eugen

Artillery: Admiral Hipper

Torpedoes: Prinz Eugen

Anti-Air: basically equal

Maneuverability: Admiral Hipper

Concealment: Admiral Hipper

Earning: Prinz Eugen

 

Did I miss a point? Do you agree?

 

 

The Sirene

[AVR_Project]

From a marketing perspective:

All Premium Ships need to be profitable in Co-Op under 'Less then Average' users.

So the PE will always be good for a relaxing weekend in Co-Op.  We currently have this damage mission that can be done in Co-Op, so I'm going through Marblehead, Indianapolis, Langley, Texas, Arizona, Missouri, and the elite US carriers to have fun doing this.  I hear, "Who the $#% brought a Missouri into Co-Op???" a lot.

Grinder ships at tier 8...   Get gooder or you will lose credits.  I have a Hipper too.  Barely use the PE because...   grinding the Hipper in Random.

There are occasions, though.  I once lost 85,000 credits on the Missouri after fighting a fort, beat the fort, but died by fire from it.  Looked like a training room screen '0 0 0'.  Killed by 'FORT'.  Two more of my team-mates were also killed by forts in that battle.  There are no credits given for defeating the fort.

There is some strange mechanic for switching that fort on.  The rules and mechanics were vaguely explained.  The enemy was there first, but we pulled into the cap in hopes of stopping it.  It switched over anyway and cut us down at point-blank range.

And so they pulled Bastion..  We had other, similar, names for it.

[FayFay731]

What about skill builds and module build? Does the same build make one or the other stronger?

[crzyhawk]

The one thing I disagree with is survivability.  I'd give the edge to Hipper based on tighter turning circle and slightly quicker rudder shift, which you cover under maneuverability.  I think that the Hipper's improved ability to evade incoming trumps PE's extra hit points, especially when you factor in the concealment.  You'll just never actually notice that difference.

 

Pretty much, the PE is inferior to Hipper in nearly every combat capability.

[Jim_Byrnes]

A well thought out and presented treatise... I picked PE soley to round out my German historical fleet. Shes fun to play but I like Nurnberg just as much and confess to neglecting her while grinding my Scharnhorst to 19pts. At her tier and especially up tiered matches I'd say Atago with full concealment build or even Edinburgh with same build edges both out in some respects. Thanks for the time spent! +1

[SireneRacker]

What about skill builds and module build? Does the same build make one or the other stronger?

 

I have both set up the same way with the following priorities:

1. AA

2. Stealth

3. Concealment

 

It works for both the same way.

 

The one thing I disagree with is survivability.  I'd give the edge to Hipper based on tighter turning circle and slightly quicker rudder shift, which you cover under maneuverability.  I think that the Hipper's improved ability to evade incoming trumps PE's extra hit points, especially when you factor in the concealment.  You'll just never actually notice that difference.

 

Pretty much, the PE is inferior to Hipper in nearly every combat capability.

 

Survivability does not describe how long she is probably going to survive in a battle. More it does describe how this ship deals with hits. Otherwise the Survivability of a Tachibana would greatly surpass that of a Yamato. Tachibana is small, turns like a tank, has the best Concealment, a low ridder shift, and so on.

 

When we only speak of how the ship handles shell hits, the Eugen is a little bit better. Her citadel is better protected, her turrets are better protected, her Torpedo defense is better.

 

The difference in rudder shift is so small that I am asking myself why you even bring that one up. The 0.1second difference when you use Rudder Mod (which you definitely should) is like the 0.2kn turning speed difference: not even worth the bytes on the server to write them down.

 

A well thought out and presented treatise... I picked PE soley to round out my German historical fleet. Shes fun to play but I like Nurnberg just as much and confess to neglecting her while grinding my Scharnhorst to 19pts. At her tier and especially up tiered matches I'd say Atago with full concealment build or even Edinburgh with same build edges both out in some respects. Thanks for the time spent! +1

 

That largely depends on the playstyle. Edinburgh and Atago are both stealthy ships which have a trump card or two to offer. Hipper and Eugen have their insane AP which allows those magic 10k salvos. In terms of stats however both Hipper and Eugen are below the other Cruisers except for New Orleans, so I would not mind if they get a buff or two.

[crzyhawk]

That's your opinion on what survivability means, I have mine.  I personally think that Hipper is more survivable due to her ability to avoid damage.  The longer I am alive and dealing damage, the better off I am, whether it's due to taking a smaller hit or not being hit at all.  Neither of us are wrong, due to the fact it's opinion on the definition of survivability in this case.

 

I do agree with most of your analysis however.

[Jim_Byrnes]

 

I have both set up the same way with the following priorities:

1. AA

2. Stealth

3. Concealment

 

It works for both the same way.

 

 

Survivability does not describe how long she is probably going to survive in a battle. More it does describe how this ship deals with hits. Otherwise the Survivability of a Tachibana would greatly surpass that of a Yamato. Tachibana is small, turns like a tank, has the best Concealment, a low ridder shift, and so on.

 

When we only speak of how the ship handles shell hits, the Eugen is a little bit better. Her citadel is better protected, her turrets are better protected, her Torpedo defense is better.

 

The difference in rudder shift is so small that I am asking myself why you even bring that one up. The 0.1second difference when you use Rudder Mod (which you definitely should) is like the 0.2kn turning speed difference: not even worth the bytes on the server to write them down.

 

 

That largely depends on the playstyle. Edinburgh and Atago are both stealthy ships which have a trump card or two to offer. Hipper and Eugen have their insane AP which allows those magic 10k salvos. In terms of stats however both Hipper and Eugen are below the other Cruisers except for New Orleans, so I would not mind if they get a buff or two.

 

In all fairness I'm going to give IFHE a try on PE once I get done with the Horse grind if the results mimic the improvement shown on Scharnhorst it would be almost a mini-buff. 

[Padoru_]

In all fairness I'm going to give IFHE a try on PE once I get done with the Horse grind if the results mimic the improvement shown on Scharnhorst it would be almost a mini-buff. 

 

Don't do it, IFHE is useless in Eugen's guns. Use it in russian ships and be happy.

[Doomlock]

You forgot one tiny detail on the aesthetics of the Eugen, she has her crest whereas Hipper does not as Hipper represents the class as a whole and not the individual ship like Eugen. To add to the bow difference, only Eugen had the extended Atlantic bow, Hipper and Blücher had the shorter Atlantic bows.

[crzyhawk]

There's a part of me that hopes they graft the beautiful german bow curve onto the Hipper and release the Blucher as a reward ship for ranked or something.  As much as an American-o-phile as I am, it seems a bit messed up that both of the ranked reward ships are American.

[SireneRacker]

 

In all fairness I'm going to give IFHE a try on PE once I get done with the Horse grind if the results mimic the improvement shown on Scharnhorst it would be almost a mini-buff. 

 

IFHE has little to no effect on 20.3cm guns. Your regular HE pen is ~34mm which is enough for any Battleship you will face. With IFHE you will only get 44mm which is below the typical 50mm deck armor on some german Battleships. AFT is a great choice.

 

That's your opinion on what survivability means, I have mine.  I personally think that Hipper is more survivable due to her ability to avoid damage.  The longer I am alive and dealing damage, the better off I am, whether it's due to taking a smaller hit or not being hit at all.  Neither of us are wrong, due to the fact it's opinion on the definition of survivability in this case.

 

I do agree with most of your analysis however.

 

Okay let's keep it at that.

 

You forgot one tiny detail on the aesthetics of the Eugen, she has her crest whereas Hipper does not as Hipper represents the class as a whole and not the individual ship like Eugen. To add to the bow difference, only Eugen had the extended Atlantic bow, Hipper and Blücher had the shorter Atlantic bows.

 

Well the aesthetic section was supposed to be a joke and I also didn't include it into the tl:dr section. But it's always good to know that the crest has a meaning.

[Jim_Byrnes]

good info on IFHE thank you! 

[Falls_USMC]

Thanks for writing this up, man. I love the Hipper and I am eagerly awaiting the return of the Prinz Eugen to the Premium Shop. Hopefully they again offer the unique camo. I think its amazing. I can't wait. 

 

+1 for mentioning Zeiss Optics! 

[SeaRaptor]

Thanks for writing this up, man. I love the Hipper and I am eagerly awaiting the return of the Prinz Eugen to the Premium Shop. Hopefully they again offer the unique camo. I think its amazing. I can't wait. 

 

+1 for mentioning Zeiss Optics! 

 

Once you have Eugen in your port, the Adler camo is always available for purchase.

[Falls_USMC]

 

Once you have Eugen in your port, the Adler camo is always available for purchase.

 

Oh, that's awesome! Thank you. Didn't realize. Now get it back in the shop, dammit! 

[Romeo26]

Thanks for the great comparison post.  I will admit that the PE is one of my very favourite historical ships...and I loved playing it in Navyfield.  The way in which the PE is featured in this game is one of my greatest disappointments in WOWs. Especially when you consider how she stacks up against the other Premiums and non-premium CAs at Tier 8.  Both of these ships had very active careers, way more than most of the cruisers featured in this game...(especially these make believe Russian ships) and as a result you would think these ships would be performing much better in the game.  Russian bias at play?  maybe?  If you look at PE versus the MK...it is a ridiculous comparison.  But I'm not here to complain about Russian CAs.  There are numerous other threads on THAT topic!

 

I have played both the Hipper and the PE a lot...are they impossible to play?  no.  But when you look at its stats compared to the NO in this game (widely regarded as one of the worst ships in WOWs)- it definitely qualifies as one of the worst ships in its class/tier.  I think it is amazing that the Graf Spee has both heal AND better torps...at Tier 6?????  come on WG...seriously.

 

I'm not looking for WG to create something that is so overpowered that it gets removed from the store...but when you have a consistent sub 50% win performance it is very hard to take advantage of the benefits of increased earning for Captain skills.  This is the irony of this ship that WG fails to realize.  If the perk is better training for Captains...but the meta of this game is skewed towards having to win with teams full of potatoes to take advantage of that perk...then this results in a failed ship.  The PE is a worse ship compared to the Hipper hands down...and that just doesn't seem right for a ship that is one of the most recognizable and famous ships from WW2.

 

I think it is time to re-evaluate repair for all CAs at Tier 8 - survival seems to be the biggest issue with the PE and Hipper...ironic considering that everyone rants about IJN cruisers being made out of paper...I'd argue that the Germans are worse because they can't hide AT ALL...unlike the IJN.  I am not a pay to win advocate...I bought the PE after playing a lot of games in the Hipper...because it is the PE!!!  But if you're going to create other ships like the MK, the Atago that contribute huge value in terms of game play...it is only logical to do the same with the PE.  Give us something that adds value IN game...I'd even settle for removing the extra captain training perk...given how poorly this ship does it really doesn't accelerate training anyway!!

 

Here's some other ideas to add some playability to this ship.

 

Better chance of fire starting (after all the PE did start the fire on the Hood's boat deck) - I know there is too much fire already in this game...more to do with the broken mechanics of CA vs BBs.

Increased torpedo bulge/protection that actually matters (the PE was torpedoed multiple times - including the event that almost blew her whole stern off) - the way this is portrayed in the game is negligible at best.

Increased survivability (yes I know it has more hitpoints that Hipper...big deal...the extra 1200 doesn't even protect against the dds that this ships faces.  The PE survived a nuclear blast...that should count for SOMETHING in terms of how tough this ship was)

Same torps as the Graf Spee...generally German torps are pretty useless at this tier and above.

 

I find it ironic that they WG realized how poor the American CAs were doing and ignored the complaints from this community for a long time...and yet they finally made the necessary and correct adjustments to those ships...but I don't see ANY discussion happened from WG on the Hipper-class?  If the stats for the USN ships were the reason why you made adjustments - then why is WG ignoring the German line?  Probably because the Hipper just isn't played much anymore.  You rarely see them in game...and I've stopped counting how many times I've been "disparaged" by my so-called team mates when they see that they have a PE on their side.

 

A pretty sad state of affairs for a ship that contributed a huge amount to the naval history of WW2.  By then again...we've already discovered that WG doesn't really give a crap about history.  Ironic considering how much time/effort goes into creating these beautiful models. 

 

[CaptainTeddybear]

I have to agree the Eugen needs a serious buff. Terrible HE, just 8 guns with a slow rate of fire, no smoke or heal, bad torps, bad concealment, bad rudder shift.

 

The only reason I can think of this ship hasn't been buffed is there must be a small group or Unicums playing it and driving the stats up. It literally has no redeeming qualities other than looking amazing.

[sasquatch_research]

Hey

I like both the Hipper and the Prinz Eugen but do agree there should be something to set them apart or at least a slight buff at least to the rate of fire to make them more competitive when up-tiered, maybe something like a 2 second decrease in reload time to 11 seconds.  Maybe a some kind of heal like Atago (even if for the Prinz Eugen since it's a premium), it's still a decent ship but many ship are still better.  The recent HE buff was much needed, as was the armour buff.  She still is lacking for her tier; another redeeming factor though is her great AP potential but that is somewhat hampered by her slow reload.

Pete