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twitch133

Not your average MM rant.

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Let me preface this with the mindset that I take into my games. "Every match you play in warships is won or lost on your contribution." 

 

I do not say this in an egotistical way, where I am saying you have to have the skill to carry every team. What I am saying is, you need to carry your own weight. If you fail to do that, somebody else has to carry you and you are more likely to lose. If you can carry more than your own, great. But, over thousands of games, the only common denominator is you. Your skill comes through and your statistics are a very good indicator of your personal skill level.

 

On to the reason for this topic. Browsing youtube this morning. I found

about overwatch titled "Elo Hell - what it is and how to escape it". Watching through the video, I realized, even though Overwatch is about as far as you can get from warships in gameplay, this video is very applicable here. Elo Hell is that skill wall you hit. Where you feel like you cannot advance any further, but you feel like you are being limited by matchmaking or your own team. 

 

To get out of Elo Hell, you need to stop going into every game, where you feel like YOUR actions are the only important ones, and expecting the team to follow you. Yes, there is the time and place to be a leader, and make those decisive plays on your own, with the team supporting you. But... everybody wants to be a leader. Thus, you need to realize that expecting your team to support you is not teamwork. Analyzing what your team is doing, and responding in the best way to help them, is teamwork. Being a follower like this will actually net you more wins than being a leader (counter intuitive, right?). Ranting at your team is also counterproductive. It will make them less likely to be willing to help, it is detrimental to team cohesion and sometimes will make players want to actively sabotage you.

 

The moral of my story, stop ranting about matchmaking, change yourself, it is the only thing you can control. I am guilty of it. I have come on the forums and whined about the matchmaker and my scrub teams before. I have ranted about my scrub teams in game chat before. (A LOT!) But...One of my rants lead to a very eye opening discussion with a couple of players that turned out to be very productive for me. (Thanks again for all the help Swagger and Arlskandir) I still have struggles that I am working on, but, feeling helpless in game is no longer one of them.

 

I rarely rage in chat since this discussion took place, and I have not since posted a thread ranting about match making, or how I feel I am doing more than my fair share and still losing. I play with a much more relaxed demeanor now, and my stats / skill level has gone from a steady increase, to skyrocketing (I took me a year to go up 1% in win rate prior, I have increased a whole percent in the month and a half since). I feel like I am having more of a positive influence in every match I play, even if we don't win, and for the first time, I feel like I can still have fun on a loss.

 

 

Edited by twitch133
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Bad MM and RNG can be won on occasion.

Yes, potato team, camping on one side of the map.

My shots scratching their paint, carriers dodging torps like a tier 2 destroyer, their shots detonating and scoring consistent citadels.

And yet we still win due to maneuver and.. might I say, excessive poor judgment on the part of the enemy team-members.

Several times..  Red team has clearly won, 500 points over us, and we are hiding for cover.  Then they come after us at knife-fighting range at the end - where RNG has no effect..  And we slaughter them.

In that case, it only takes ONE PERSON on the red team to think...  no..  this is stupid.  I'm going to hang back.  And that's the one who wins it for their team...  and yet it doesn't happen.

Edited by AVR_Project

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Several times..  Red team has clearly won, 500 points over us, and we are hiding for cover.  Then they come after us at knife-fighting range at the end - where RNG has no effect..  And we slaughter them.

 

A very good point there. At least from my observation, a team is more likely to lose cohesion and throw an assured victory, than they are to continue on what looks like an assured loss.

 

Players get careless and start making stupid and greedy mistakes when they feel like the victory is assured. (I am very guilty of this myself.)

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WoWs does not use ELO system. WoWs matchmaking is based on the idea of "just throw same tier SHIPS in the match disregarding PLAYER skill and call it a day" so this is irrelevant.

Edited by m373x

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One thing I'm starting to see more and more, is the hiding behind islands way outside of cap.  And I'm not talking about BBs, but CA and DDs doing this.  Not sure what strategy to take in those situations.  Heck, even had one game where all of our CAs seemed to play ring around the rosie around an island.  I even pointed it out to them as they took their second lap around it.  We managed to win thanks to a great effort from our BBs and DDs working together.

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I'm beginning to think my "skill" is nothing more than luck, as I'm finding it more and more difficult to understand why I have days/weeks/months where I feel and play like a complete potato and then suddenly it all turns back around.

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One thing I'm starting to see more and more, is the hiding behind islands way outside of cap.  And I'm not talking about BBs, but CA and DDs doing this ...

 

Even BBs do, I know ... here I am in a Gneise makin' an agreed push to cap/hold, and then group stops in smoke behind an island and just in front of the cap. Momentum  then had her at a point of no return, into the open area of the cap with a lone torp spamming enemy DD :D

 

5wpQwDz.png

 

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WoWs does not use ELO system. WoWs matchmaking is based on the idea of "just throw same tier SHIPS in the match disregarding PLAYER skill and call it a day" so this is irrelevant.

I think your post is irrelevant because you didn't read or comprehend the OP's post.

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I'm beginning to think my "skill" is nothing more than luck, as I'm finding it more and more difficult to understand why I have days/weeks/months where I feel and play like a complete potato and then suddenly it all turns back around.

 

I have had games where I personally did extremely well (eg, 100K damage) and we lost. I have had mediocre games which we won.

 

I have a thread here complaining about teams that lose at least half their ships in the first 5 minutes then face an enemy twice the size.

 

I actually had one game end with our team having a score of 1 point. Yes, one single point.

 

The most worthless and insipid advice you can get is:

 

You gotta get better.

\

:trollface:

 

 

Thanks Einstein, that is sooooo helpful!

\

:rolleyes:

Edited by TheGreatBlasto

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WoWs does not use ELO system. WoWs matchmaking is based on the idea of "just throw same tier SHIPS in the match disregarding PLAYER skill and call it a day" so this is irrelevant.

 

Regardless of the type of matchmaker the game uses, the conversation about player attitude is extremely relevant.

 

Even though our MM is purely random. This is a zero sum game, where the server average MUST be at or near 50%. That means that you have exactly the same chance of being put on a team of good players as poor players.

 

Therefor, the only thing that comes through is player skill. By adopting a defeatist attitude of "My win rate is all luck and reliant on the whims of the match maker". You are setting yourself up for failure. You are defeating ANY possibility of learning and growing.

 

I'm beginning to think my "skill" is nothing more than luck, as I'm finding it more and more difficult to understand why I have days/weeks/months where I feel and play like a complete potato and then suddenly it all turns back around.

 

I do the same thing on other games. Say battlefield, I will have game after game where I have a 4-5 kdr. and 8 or 9 wins in a row with a 1200 score per minute.

 

And then all of a sudden I am on games where I am struggling to maintain a 1.0 kdr, losing every other game and only have a 500 score per minute. 

 

I really think that it is me. Some games I am doing everything right, my aim is just clicking. My reflexes are on point, and my planning is putting me just where I need to be. Then I have games where none of that happens. I can't flank anybody. I am constantly trying to fight 4 or 5 enemies (and losing at that) and I can't hit the broadside of a barn from inside.

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I have a similar philosophy.  For a good player (and a leader type), optimal individual play can be sub-optimal in team play.  Or, said another way, sub-optimal individual play can be optimal play for the team.  And it's optimal play for the team that wins matches.

 

Note that personality types play a factor.  I just happen to be in a 2% type, called INTJ.  I found it amusing that getting out of Elo Hell requires a follower mindset, and only stepping into the leader role when needed.   That is one of the attributes of an INTJ, for life in general.

Edited by Soshi_Sone

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. . . I rarely rage in chat since this discussion took place, and I have not since posted a thread ranting about match making, or how I feel I am doing more than my fair share and still losing. I play with a much more relaxed demeanor now, and my stats / skill level has gone from a steady increase, to skyrocketing (I took me a year to go up 1% in win rate prior, I have increased a whole percent in the month and a half since). I feel like I am having more of a positive influence in every match I play, even if we don't win, and for the first time, I feel like I can still have fun on a loss.

 

+1

 

I've since put out of my mind that RNG / MM is a determinant in a victory or defeat. Fatalistically and in team defeat & with the former accept it as the luck-of-the-draw.  I usually go into battle with "good luck, capns" and gauge direction and strategy of the rest.  Have I been the prevailing factor for a victory, or defeat? Perhaps sometimes?  Never?  I'll never know.  But what I do know is that I did the best I could ... regardless of what the floating buckets of pixeled steel and iron prima donna's think. 

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I have had games where I personally did extremely well (eg, 100K damage) and we lost. I have had mediocre games which we won.

 

I have a thread here complaining about teams that lose at least half their ships in the first 5 minutes then face an enemy twice the size.

 

I actually had one game end with our team having a score of 1 point. Yes, one single point.

 

The most worthless and insipid advice you can get is:

 

You gotta get better.

\

:trollface:

 

 

Thanks Einstein, that is sooooo helpful!

\

:rolleyes:

 

I am not going to be the type of player that says "Git Gud" and leaves it at that. It is so much more nuanced than that.

 

It is the desire to learn. If you want to learn, you will seek ways to learn and improve, and in direct result, your own performance will reflect it. With the attitude in your post that I have highlighted, I can tell you, that you are sabotaging yourself. Your own defeatist attitude is what is holding you where ever you happen to be. I have not looked at your stats, I wished to make this statement without bias. I do not have the skill yet, to look at a replay and tell you what exactly you could do differently to feel like you have more influence in battle. But what I can tell you, it is not the other 11 players on your team, it is not the match maker, it IS your own mindset. 

 

I have a similar philosophy.  For a good player (and a leader type), optimal individual play can be sub-optimal in team play.  Or, said another way, sub-optimal individual play can be optimal play for the team.  And it's optimal play for the team that wins matches.

 

Note that personality types play a factor.  I just happen to be in a 2% type, called INTJ.  I found it amusing that getting out of Elo Hell requires a follower mindset, and only stepping into the leader role when needed.   That is one of the attributes of an INTJ, for life in general.

 

 

It took me over 2000 games to realize that. It was the hardest thing for me to wrap my head around that I could be consistently at the top of the scoreboard, and still maintaining a 50%-ish win rate. I played under the mindset that, my score says I am right, the rest of the team is wrong.

 

It took me that long to finally realize, that it is my job to help the team, not their job to help me. And that strong personal score does not mean that I helped contribute to the win.

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you guys are over thinking this.   just enjoy the match and improvement you make.   forget about the taters  and try to be top of the board win or lose.       recognize that majority of players are taters, but learn to recognize opportunities and do the best you can to maximize your team potential.   Whether it is smoking a BB in trouble   or    supporting your  DD.    it is little things that adds up .

 

 

for example,  I had a match in fuso yesterday.    I was chased by more than  half the red team for most of the match,   2.8mil potential dmg  .  tanked 100k dmg  but only did 55k.  we won because they chased me so hard to the far corner that our DD capped  out a win.      stat is important, but there are things you can do to  help your team beyond   doing lot of dmg.     Surviving for a long time is important, but you have to be    effectively contributing .    if you are a bait,  you have to go in deep enough for the red team to bite.  if you are hunter,  you need to get close enough for effective kill shot.      it can be fine line and requires experience and good situation awareness.      

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There are two things I believe affect the outcome. First is ballance of ships. MM isn't perfect and sometimes distributes wrong, which can lead to your defeat because of a sheer lack of firepower to do the job. The second is your personal performance, because if you're not running as best as you can, your not going to have a shot at a decent win. However if your not having fun when your playing, both points are useless. :)

 

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WoWs does not use ELO system. WoWs matchmaking is based on the idea of "just throw same tier SHIPS in the match disregarding PLAYER skill and call it a day" so this is irrelevant.

 

I doubt that anyone but the developers know the exact matchmaking algorithm used. If it's really only based on ship tier then this does present a problem. In one way, all those at higher tiers (with the exception, possibly, of "pay to play" players) have at least ground their way through a few hundred or more games so have the potential of being better players. However, they may not be. Skilled players who also use low-tier ships also could simply overwhelm players who are just beginning the game if the matchmaker is simply tier based.  

 

Many games are more-or-less evenly matched. However, one often sees in the game results where the worst player on one team outscores the best player on the other. With the current ranks the difference in skill between teams becomes even more clear sometimes. When you see a bunch of rank 10-5s on the winning team and nobody ranked on the losing team you know that the MM is not doing a very good job of sorting out teams.

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 the MM is not doing a very good job of sorting out teams.

Because we don't have a decent MM system. We do have nice premium ships though and the word "purchase" written a couple of times in the UI :wink: :wink:. Did I mention that Des Moines got 0.5 seconds reload buff ?

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