When is it okay to fire at your allies?

[fish_Jones]

In my NC, I see two Iowas doing a driveby 8km away broadside. Friendly has full health, Red at half. Shoot at Red and knock off 20k hitpoints and one shell disperses high for 5k damage into friendly. Friendly puts his rear turret into him, putting him at a few thousand and a friendly Edinburgh finishes him off.

 

Imo, that salvo was justified. I probably did more damage to the friendly than he received in the rest of the match (again, full health, and game ended less than a minute latter with a win), and even though I knew he would likely take damage, I knew he would survive. I helped assist in the destruction of the enemy, and nothing bad happened.

 

A few games back in my Atlanta, me and an Ibuki were dancing less than 2km away. I finish him off with 3 AP salvos crossing the T to present the narrowest target I could. A couple of seconds latter, friendly shots from a Gneis erase me from 20k hitpoints 15km away directly to my rear. 

 

Imo, that salvos was also justified. He didn't know if I would be able to finish off an opponent two tiers higher than me, and was just trying to assist me. The grouping of his shots had to be insane for him to kill me outright, and RNG did the rest.

 

Both stories are just for context for you to use when considering the following question:

Are there any general rules when it is or isn't okay to provide danger-close fire-support?

[Grizley]

My general rule is, if I was in the ship I'm putting at risk would I want the person in my position to take a shot.

 

An example from a game earlier today.  A friendly CV was sandwitched between a pair of Yamatos, at ~50% health with one Yamato ~50% and one at ~20%.  They were about 6km apart and I was about 9km from the Yamatos coming up fast behind the CV.  I launched torps that went within 500m of the CV and (mostly) hit the lower health Yamato with guns.  Torps took out one Yamato, guns the other.  CV lived, barely.  

 

Basically, if I had NOT fired the torps the CV would have died.  Since I warned him and fired knowing he had to stay angled the best he could to avoid being deleted the torps were relatively safe.  I hit the CV with a couple of shells, but nearly all of them hit the enemy and killed it before it could finish killing the CV.

 

If in doubt, hold your fire.

[fish_Jones]

If in doubt, hold your fire.

That's the standard I'll try and use from now on. Thanks fam

[aAkula]

If i see a destroyer that is 5-7km away from me and i have a clear shot, I'm shooting, if you're in the way, too bad.

[Battlecruiser_Amagi]

When they trash talk you

 

[YukonHunter]

More than the game lets us shoot at 'allies' anyway.

[sulghunter331]

When I first read your title, I had thought of something else entirely. I have a different case to present, and it makes me look like a complete [edited].

 

One game, I was in my North Carolina, and it was about mid game. A friendly cruiser was with me, at about 3/4 health, when enemy torpedoes drop him to just under a thousand HP. An enemy DD then opens fire, trying to pick up the kill. Friendly cruiser gets behind an island for cover, but not before a stray shell lights him on fire. Now, the cruiser had already used up his damage control on the flooding from the torpedoes, and this fire was obviously going to kill him. It was at this moment that I fired upon the cruiser. Instead of sinking by the enemy DD's fire, he sunk by my BB shells. I got a -1 on my score, enemy DD was left with no kill.

 

I had scuttled my ally to deny the enemy his death. The cruiser was going to sink, whether I had fired or not.

[_Sp1d3r_]

To me, I don't think what you did was or should be considered bad play.  I would do the same thing, but only if it ment doing the damage to my ally won us the game

[Soshi_Sone]

Well, the thread title is incorrect.  In neither of the examples was the fire "at" the ally.  It was "at" an enemy, where some of the shells hit a friendly.  Hence, the real question is when is OK to fire at an enemy when if it's possible to hit an ally?  This is a judgement call.  If its in furtherance of a win, then it's OK.  If it's detrimental to the win, then it's not OK.  Unfortunately, we don't always make the correct call.  But that's part of the game.  Decide.  Shot (or not). 

 

All said, YOU are still responsible.  Again, the nature of the game.  Fortunately, when the decision is bad, our "pain" is limited to pixel ships and maybe a bit of pink.

[TheKrimzonDemon]

If i see a destroyer that is 5-7km away from me and i have a clear shot, I'm shooting, if you're in the way, too bad.

 

Ah, if someone is in the way, doesn't that mean that you don't, in fact, have a clear shot?

[Camo68]

If in doubt wait for a clear shot, no matter how frustrating your allies are playing. 

 

 

[Misniso]

As long as you don't chuck torps while behind me, go nuts.

[BrushWolf]

NEVER!

[Zim_Xero]

The overall answer is its never ok.  The real answer is that its up to each player.  Personally, I can think of a situation where I would:

 

There are 8 allies alive and 1 enemy DD.  You have that DD dead bang with torps cause they are beached, but a friedly BB is gonna get hit when you fire.  In this case, I would fire anyway.

[madgiecool]

I thought about doing team damage to day when 4 of my team decided to charge on 2 Brothers.

 

Apparently that 'was fun'.  

I figured if they wanted to kill themselves, why should I help. 

[MidnightShamalan]

while i don't disagree that sometimes putting allies at risk can win a game, i'm also going to point out that using that line of thinking can lead to the dark pink side.

 

make sure calculated risks don't turn into poor team play. always avoid friendly fire if you can, and the game is not on the line.

[ArIskandir]

 

Both stories are just for context for you to use when considering the following question:

Are there any general rules when it is or isn't okay to provide danger-close fire-support?

 

imo, only when your team gets a decisive advantage even if the friendly vessel goes down.

Example: some months ago I had a very good match when I paired and worked along with another random BB, we pulled very nice teamwork and managed to delete at close range 2 enemy top tier battleships (we were bottom tier BBs), we were about to delete another one and after that it was going to be possibly game over for the reds since we were steamrolling everything in our path. Just as we were brawling at very close range with the third enemy BB, a poi spammed a massive spread that took us both down and left the red BB in very bad shape but alive. It was a match winning move, even if it was blue on blue. 

[Tulisang]

I'll preface by stating: It's never okay ... But if and or when the situation might call for it, [surely] the dissonance sets in:

 

 

If a team boat is in a close quarters brawl with the enemy and the enemy fires at me, and if I'm in the proximity, and or if I'm getting hit by secondaries I'm gonna fire and risk it.  If team boat has the upper hand I'll wait ... but at all times I'll have enemy targeted ... just in case of course.

[BrushWolf]

I'll preface by stating: It's never okay ... But if and or when the situation might call for it, [surely] the dissonance sets in:

 

 

If a team boat is in a close quarters brawl with the enemy and the enemy fires at me, and if I'm in the proximity, and or if I'm getting hit by secondaries I'm gonna fire and risk it.  If team boat has the upper hand I'll wait ... but at all times I'll have enemy targeted ... just in case of course.

 

In this case you are firing at the enemy. However, it is always your decision on if the shot is worth the chance but always remember you take the blame if a friendly ship dies to your fire.

[Grizley]

NEVER!

 

It's funny because I had a second time today I damaged and ally and saved their ship in the process.

 

1800hp Iowa about to ram a 80% Montana.  I killed him with Fletcher spam from extreme range.  Some landed on the Montana.  Trust me, he didn't mind.  The Iowa was with maybe 3 feet when it died.  Given the choice of take 1000 HE damage that you can fully repair or losing what 75-80k that you can't via ram I'm guessing that everyone on earth will pick the he damage.

 

The rest are bad at math to the point they believe in a wage gap.

[Tulisang]

. . . it is always your decision on if the shot is worth the chance but always remember you take the blame if a friendly ship dies to your fire.

 

Without doubt.  But as I favor battling in BBs, I feel that I've taken my more than my fair share of (discriminate & indiscriminate) friendly-fire whilst in a brawl

...and in two or three instances from torps  

[BrushWolf]

 

In this case you are firing at the enemy. However, it is always your decision on if the shot is worth the chance but always remember you take the blame if a friendly ship dies to your fire.

 

 

It's funny because I had a second time today I damaged and ally and saved their ship in the process.

 

1800hp Iowa about to ram a 80% Montana.  I killed him with Fletcher spam from extreme range.  Some landed on the Montana.  Trust me, he didn't mind.  The Iowa was with maybe 3 feet when it died.  Given the choice of take 1000 HE damage that you can fully repair or losing what 75-80k that you can't via ram I'm guessing that everyone on earth will pick the he damage.

 

The rest are bad at math to the point they believe in a wage gap.

 

I addressed that in my later post, you have to weigh the pros and cons. I would rather live with some scratches from a friendly than die, you chose the correct choice there. Also a minor detail, it is only fire damage from HE that is fully repairable otherwise HE damage is like AP damage and only a portion can be repaired.

[Crap_Shoot]

My rule:

 

1. Never for torpedoes.  They are individually the most powerful weapons in the game, and the risk to an ally is too great.  If my torps threaten or hit an ally, regardless of the situation I consider it a mistake on my part.

 

2.  For guns, it depends.  If he is going to sink unless I intervene, I will.  If I can expect zero or little collateral damage, I will take the shot.  If I misjudge and kill or debuff the friendly, it was a mistake on my part.  A couple of weeks ago I killed a friendly in an attempt to save his ship.  I knew I was going to be a hero, and moments later was proven wrong.

 

To anyone I have ever hit or TK:  Sorry.  My intentions are good but my judgment is not always.  I will apologize the minute it is safe to type.  Or send a PM if the match ends.  I know a simple "sorry" is generally enough to keep me from getting upset, so I try to do the same.

 

Also, everyone:  Please don't blame the person you kill for the TK.  It never ends well.  Acknowledge, apologize, and move on.  If the other person escalates after that, you are no longer the only a-hole.