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GRUTyphus

Kagero- what the hell am I doing wrong???

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I'm having a ridiculously hard time figuring this out. Looking for help tips and commander choices for a eleven point captain. I'm not the strongest player but I am by no means the shittiest player. My patience in the ship is maybe even a little over the top.

 

It seems like this ship is just everything I've been looking for in a DD, and I actually am super happy with it, all the upgrades are complete, it's next to invisible and it hits like a truck... Unfortunately if I stay invisible, I either end up chasing a lonely battleship all game because it's so slow or getting caught for 2.2 seconds and liquefied. Either way the game becomes a super long stay out of detection chase where BBs are as fast as you. 

 

I know this ship gets a lot of hate,but tell me some successful tactics and the commander skills that helped. Looked for YouTube help but it's all old tier nine crap. Help is much appreciated.

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Sounds like you have a positioning problem. If you are chasing BB's then you are too far outside of the fight. If you get deleted in 2.2 seconds then you are too far in the fight. There is a happy medium where you are in front of the red team out of detection range and moving back away from detection as you torp your butt off. Pay more attention to the minimap and the movement of red ships. Watch their proximity to your detection range ring and move away or close as needed to be able to prosecute that BB with torps or withdraw without fear of detection. It takes some practice. I am no master at it but I do pretty well with positioning. Sometimes you do get caught over-extended and you have to "dance" like a madman to evade and escape. Do not shoot guns if you are "just" detected because then you are really dead. Guns should be last resort or used on an opportune weak target. I use basic captain skills with my IJN DD's. I start with PM, LS, Super, CE then I add EM to get some gun upgrade "just in case". I have stacked BFT and AFT on my Shiratsuyu for some invisi-firing. I figure the torps are good enough as is and focused on improving guns. It has helped me get out of engagements with other DD's quite easily.

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Agree with Khafni, its all about positioning with the new Kagero.

 

Only played 8 matches since the tier switch, but 49k avg dmg was fairly easy.

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I had to stop focusing on that lone bb. I kinda changed my role to one of area denial. I found if I kept chasing the one bb he soon got wise to me and easily avoided my torps. Now I cruise back and forth in front of or along side of the enemy and torp at several different ships. It seems to make previously missed ships relax a little and make them more susceptible to later attacks. My smokes are used defensively to cover my retreat if spotted and targeted. I guess I am saying I use the Kagero  more opportunistically than offensively? This is all I have been able to figure out with this ship. I do only have 94 battles in her since the tier switch, with my highest being around 170k damage. I think I average around 38k using these methods.

Edited by Histopicker

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I think the trick with all IJN DDs is to know when to use your torps. Don't spam them from max range, because they will rarely hit. Wait until you have a chance to get close to a BB, and then torp. Between those opportunities, spot for your team and harass enemy ships by firing a few salvos every once in a while. 

It's tricky at first, but if you're doing it right, it's fairly easy to do well. Currently average over 70k damage with 14 games played. 

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+1 Positioning.

 

Finding it's best to stay a little behind your main capping DD if there is one and just dance around the outside of the cap. (Of course, still read the situation and deviate from this accordingly).

The thing with higher tiers is that everything is fast enough to get away from you. You have to read the map and go to where the target will try to go. If you're in the spot they think you're at, that's good too because you're actively denying an area but it gives the impression to the rest of your team that you suck because most people who play this game are tunnel-visioned potatoes that only know how to shoot and angle. The fine art of positioning is lost on a lot of people.... which is why unfortunately, to get the damage stats, you need to be somewhere other than the responsible fleet supporting position you should be in. Otherwise, shells travel faster than torpedoes and all your ambushes will land on dead hulls.

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Positioning,

 

Including screening your BBs. Naturally this puts you between them and torpedoes, destroyers, and other battleships.

 

Now torp them back

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The Kagero is junk . Torp reload time is horrific , ship speed stinks .Using your guns is a death sentence . Once the radar gets a hold of you there is no escape . Position all you want as long as radar and RPF exists it's a hunted ship . YOU DON'T GET TO DO ANYTHING OFFENSIVE AT ALL . Don't even think about trying to cap with this ship .WG doesn't want torp throwers ruining their gun game anymore. Have you not noticed the DD counts are down in the games ? They are anti DD and pro BB /Cruiser now . .  games basically consist of 15 - 20 K slugfests  with a DD trying to get in to the 8- 9 K range to throw out their prayer shot torps and move back out again .

I'm just waiting for the BB's to start crying again . It will be about the OP HE Cruiser spam this time . Just like they did about the Cleveland before they nerfed it's gun and armor into oblivion . 

The IJN DD line is crap except for T7 .

Screening for BB's ? I'm so tired of hearing that crap . It's the #1 cry baby excuse of the BB drivers . Only BBs and Cruisers get to sink ships and pile up those 100 K + point games any more . Oh sure you'll get one now and then every few days and fool yourself  into thinking  you can do it consistently . The days of DDs getting Kraken / High Caliber  etc are done . Those are reserved for the big boys now 

Just switch to a long range BB , but be prepared for it to be constantly set on fire by a Cruiser ( that's banging away at you from 15 + K out ) 

Edited by Capt_Q_Sparrow
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I have 373 games in the Kagero so far (kinda matches my nickname) and she has been a successful ship for me. There are few basic rules I have figured out for myself. First: Kagero is a fleet destroyer and you never go for solo play/caps/flanks early game, instead your job is to scout and secure parts of the map that are important with the help of friendly ships. Second: before the match has started I take notes of the enemy destroyers and cruisers lineup (concealment and radar). Since I have the best concealment in the entire match I use this to my advantage throughout the entire battle. I rush caps early and secure them (blast your engine boost at the start of the match), now this is a bit tricky when you are in the cap zone itself until you master the throttle and rudder (highly suggest that you use propulsion modification). Position yourself as fast as possible in such a manner near the cap boarder that you do not present broadside and get easily torped and make sure you have a clean escape out if the situation requires if the cap zone is 6km wide BUT go a bit deeper if it is wider (on maps such as Trap, Ice islands). At this time torps should be ready or nearly ready and there are 2 options: first one is to launch them in a tight pattern against an enemy DD that you do not see but is blocking the camp (knowing where the DD may be heading will come with experience). Second option is to spot him first (unless it is another Kagero you should not be spotted) and then decide where to launch torps while spamming F3. Now some of the enemy DDs like to sit stationary in the cap, if this happens I immediately start shooting my guns at them aiming for the engine/rudder - they will either cast smoke or start moving. If smoke is casted I  launch torps behind them since they tend to move in reverse and continue shooting at their general location, if they start moving forwards just keep shooting and launch torps INBETWEEN artilery salvos. Kagero's guns are very powerful and accurate and as long as you hit your first couple of salvos and avoid enemy shots you have pretty much secured the cap. Disengage with smoke when you are no longer comfortable about the amount of HP you are losing.

Mid game is mainly about area denial with ocasional torp hit/kill and blazing my guns mainly from invisibility non-stop while continuing to live on the edge and scout for my team and try to defend/secure an objective. Keeping an eye on the minimap every 2-4 seconds and on your detection status as well is vital. 

Late game can not be broken down since it is highly specific depending on the current situation.

 

When fighting cruisers I am using my rear turrets most of the time while retreating to invis-fire range where the front turret comes into action again. Against broadside cruisers I load AP and try to citadel them. Torping smart cruisers is rly hard for me.

Fighting BBs is mainly from invisibility trying to set fires on them and force them to use dmg control for future floodings/fires. A lot of times a BB will try to rush me in my smoke whili zig-zaging to avoid torps so I either launch only 1 salvo to make them think there are no more torps or save both salvos and blast them at close range. 

Torping good BB drivers early to mid game is hard because of the abundance of tools that can spot them so saving torps for the right moment is preferred.

 

tl;dr: secure caps, constantly know where enemy DDs are so stealth firing is a breeze and do not be afraid to get into a gunfights with enemy DDs since you have the advantage of first salvo and higher alpha strike.

I will try to record a replay for you tonight.

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never go for solo play/caps/flanks early game... I rush caps early and secure them (blast your engine boost at the start of the match)

So, don't do it but do do it!

 

 

 

Position yourself as fast as possible in such a manner near the cap boarder

 

 

Until a cruiser sails up and pops radar because they know there's a DD in the cap or the enemy DD simply rushes the cap once they realize based on your detection that it's a Kagero.  In either situation, you're dead.

 

At this time torps should be ready or nearly ready and there are 2 options: first one is to launch them in a tight pattern against an enemy DD that you do not see but is blocking the camp (knowing where the DD may be heading will come with experience). Second option is to spot him first

 

 

 

So, if the opposing DD is a moron (not expected by T8) you might get a lucky hit and not have any torpedo reload for quite a while forcing you to give up the cap.  Or, second option you go spot him, he realizes he's out spotting, isn't an idiot and knows you're in a a IJN destroyer.  He then laughs in joy if he's sailing a Russian or USN destroyer and pushes in to shove your aft down your own exhaust pipes. If he's using a German DD, he's just a masochist.

 

Now some of the enemy DDs like to sit stationary in the cap, if this happens I immediately start shooting my guns at them aiming for the engine/rudder

 

 

 

And proceed to either get lit up by every cruiser on the map, or forced out of the cap while taking damage for no purpose whatsoever.

 

Kagero's guns are very powerful

 

 

Compared to what?

 

Mid game is mainly about area denial with ocasional torp hit/kill and blazing my guns mainly from invisibility non-stop

When fighting cruisers I am using my rear turrets most of the time while retreating to invis-fire range

 

The Kagero can't invisi-fire.  If you're sitting in smoke, you better hope there is nothing with radar around because you're so slow you'll never get away.  If you're lucky and there isn't any radar, the smoke is only useful against poor captains.  Rushing a Kagero is smoke is pretty much a for sure kill every time.  The torps are easily detected and avoided and once you're within 5 - 6km, the Kagero has to turn and run because they're so slow the can't risk being detected.  Because they can't invisi-fire without smoke and because they're so slow, if you can get a Kagero to run from you while firing, and you're not a complete goof with your aiming, you'll make short work of it.

 

Again, this doesn't actually exist.  So, seeing as you're always detected when firing, you must be playing against some very bad cruiser captains to got get obliterated.

 

Fighting BBs is mainly from invisibility trying to set fires on them and force them to use dmg control for future floodings/fires. A lot of times a BB will try to rush me in my smoke whili zig-zaging to avoid torps so I either launch only 1 salvo to make them think there are no more torps or save both salvos and blast them at close range.

 

 

 

Where do you find such accommodating BB captains? Any BB that sees only one spread of torpedoes is going to know more are coming.  Once the dodge your highly visible torpedoes, you won't have the speed or firepower to get yourself out of the mess.

 

firing is a breeze and do not be afraid to get into a gunfights with enemy DDs since you have the advantage of first salvo and higher alpha strike.

 

 

 

You know we're taking about Kageros right?  They don't invisi-fire and you're out gunned by basically every t7- t10 dd in the game.

 

 

Your entire strategy for using the Kagero seems to be relying on coming up against incompetent players in your matches.  Any player with skill should be able to turn a Kagero into a greasy stain on the ocean surface without too much trouble.

 

I've been having a difficult time enjoying the Kagero, though I've gotten a bit better at not getting killed all the time.  It's just a boring ship due to the way you have to play it.  It's all about just sailing back and forth not hitting anyone with your slow and very visible torps but stopping ships from going in a particular direction and setting up broadsides for your allies.  It's really hard to run a profit on the ship unless your enemy is just amazingly clueless and eats your torps because they weren't paying attention.  But, even though it doesn't do damage, doesn't make money and is pretty boring, it can play a very important role of area denial.  I only with there was a way to get credit for all the broadsides you set up by forcing them to turn into the torps that they see coming from 5km away.

Edited by WidochMeirker

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I've been having a difficult time enjoying the Kagero, though I've gotten a bit better at not getting killed all the time.  It's just a boring ship due to the way you have to play it.  It's all about just sailing back and forth not hitting anyone with your slow and very visible torps but stopping ships from going in a particular direction and setting up broadsides for your allies.  It's really hard to run a profit on the ship unless your enemy is just amazingly clueless and eats your torps because they weren't paying attention.  But, even though it doesn't do damage, doesn't make money and is pretty boring, it can play a very important role of area denial.  I only with there was a way to get credit for all the broadsides you set up by forcing them to turn into the torps that they see coming from 5km away.

 

I play the Kagero almost the opposite way. I rarely use it as areal denial but shoot to kill instead. Torp reload on this thing is slow. I'd like to make every torp worth. I launch my torps into smoke where enemy shooting from, and BB that sailing up close. One good launch from this ship can earn profit.

also, I'd like to get my best stealth into work. spot every other ships for your team and let your team kill off the DD so that you can go in and torp. Positioning is really important for this ship. as 35 kts standard is not enough for you to get out from over extending.

 

I average 59k damage and 1.6kill each game from kagero just in case some of you say this ship is useless and can't hit anything.

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I play the Kagero almost the opposite way. I rarely use it as areal denial but shoot to kill instead. Torp reload on this thing is slow. I'd like to make every torp worth. I launch my torps into smoke where enemy shooting from, and BB that sailing up close. One good launch from this ship can earn profit.

also, I'd like to get my best stealth into work. spot every other ships for your team and let your team kill off the DD so that you can go in and torp. Positioning is really important for this ship. as 35 kts standard is not enough for you to get out from over extending.

 

I average 59k damage and 1.6kill each game from kagero just in case some of you say this ship is useless and can't hit anything.

 

It's a ship that relies on incompetence from the opposing players.  The torps have such a wide detection range, pretty much any ship paying the least amount of attention can get out of the way of most if not all the torps.  I've watched BBs sailing fully broadside to me and then you can tell as soon as they spot the torps and they have no trouble at all turning into them to mitigate damage.   To actually accomplish anything, you have to hope the other team is not paying attention.  The Kagero is not competitive.  Other destroyers can actually force damage onto a ship, the Kagero hopes the other ship allows it to damage them.

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Until a cruiser sails up and pops radar because they know there's a DD in the cap or the enemy DD simply rushes the cap once they realize based on your detection that it's a Kagero.  In either situation, you're dead.

This is true for every DD, a single cruiser with radar may ruin you in 2 salvos, a single torpedo may kill you. This is why we use WASD to dodge shells and torps.

 

 

 

 

The Kagero can't invisi-fire.

 

 

 

My Kagero has 2.1km invisi-fire window.

 

 

It's a ship that relies on incompetence from the opposing players.

It rather relies on the  competence of the driver.

 

Guns on the Kagero are absolutely fine. If you can not make them work you should check your own game and not blame it on the ship. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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This is true for every DD, a single cruiser with radar may ruin you in 2 salvos, a single torpedo may kill you. This is why we use WASD to dodge shells and torps.

 

It's not true for every DD in the game because other DDs have the speed to escape radar and generally a large HP pool with which to work.  The Kagero does not have the tools faster DDs with more health have.

 

 

My Kagero has 2.1km invisi-fire window.

 

 We are talking about the same ship right?  I was playing mine last night.  Fully upgraded with stealth on my captain and a basic camo, it has a .2km invisi-fire window. Basically none.

 

It rather relies on the  competence of the driver.

 

I explained very clearly in my previous post, that if other ships are paying attention, it doesn't matter what you do.  If you try and torp someone even from 6km away, the torps are spotted early enough that everything but the absolute slowest of battleships have time to turn in.  At the best you'll get maybe 1 hit.  Cruisers and Destroyers should never get hit by your torps if they're paying attention and they can easily spot and out shoot you.  Your HP is so low, most higher tier carriers who are not incompetent can hit you for at minimum half your health. 

 

Guns on the Kagero are absolutely fine. If you can not make them work you should check your own game and not blame it on the ship. 

 Except that in every category against similar destroyers, they are demonstrably worse.  Take into consideration your low HP pool and tissue paper modules that are knocked out by a flying seagull and there really isn't a single ship at your tier that you have the advantage over unless the other player plays poorly.  

 

The Kagero sits at the bottom of the list of average damage and exp by t8 destroyers.  It's demonstrably a poor ship compared to other t8 destroyers.  I do not doubt that it's possible for a good player to feed on lower skilled captains, but skill being equal, the machine does not stack up to the rest.

 

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 We are talking about the same ship right?  I was playing mine last night.  Fully upgraded with stealth on my captain and a basic camo, it has a .2km invisi-fire window. Basically none.

 

We are obviously not talking about the same ship

 

 

1gK1ItZ.jpg

 

Also you should read SkyRail's post again, he is currently N1 on the Kagero chart and is leading by a big big margin. I noted a few things from that post for myself.

Edited by m373x

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Ahhh, so you're saying that the destroyer is basically only usable with a 19 point captain.  Because if you don't, which a lot of people getting to t8 won't, this is what you have.  

 

Kagero.jpg

 

Yeah, if you need a 19 point captain to even make one aspect of the ship decent.  The ship is crap.  The defense rests.

 

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You refuse to even try to understand, sell the ship and be done with it.

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You refuse to even try to understand, sell the ship and be done with it.

This. 14 point captain is more than enough to sail this ship. She is not an easy ship to do well, but with concealment and TAE she can do her job. If you know what her job is. 

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Makes me want to take my Kag out for a spin.

 

But im focusing on Ranked right now.

 

Trying to improve myself

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Kagero is crap 100.8 torp reload and 35 knot speed . You come in close enough to launch torps and 11.7 K russian radar goes off and you are dead in 15 sec if not less Throw in RPF and enemy cruisers chase you down the whole game and you can't get away with that top speed of 35 knots

 

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Ahhh, so you're saying that the destroyer is basically only usable with a 19 point captain.  Because if you don't, which a lot of people getting to t8 won't, this is what you have.  

 

Kagero.jpg

 

Yeah, if you need a 19 point captain to even make one aspect of the ship decent.  The ship is crap.  The defense rests.

 

 

Did you get the concealment module? If not, you have not researched enough. I use my Kagero as an area-denial ship. Always in the rear, annoying the crap out of BBs and cruisers trying to go through the flank of my team. If they spot me and chase me, then they are not focusing on the match and you are doing your job. They will never outrun you, just don't overextend. 

 

You just get close to a cap, if a DD is there, don't go in, when you detect cruisers and BBs you begin to annoy them. Worked for me, but I'm only beggining on this ship so I need more experience on the matter.

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Did you get the concealment module? If not, you have not researched enough. I use my Kagero as an area-denial ship. Always in the rear, annoying the crap out of BBs and cruisers trying to go through the flank of my team. If they spot me and chase me, then they are not focusing on the match and you are doing your job. They will never outrun you, just don't overextend. 

 

You just get close to a cap, if a DD is there, don't go in, when you detect cruisers and BBs you begin to annoy them. Worked for me, but I'm only beggining on this ship so I need more experience on the matter.

 

He did. 5.4km concealment is the max with all module, skill, and camo. OP's problem is he wanted to invisi-fire but didn't want to use 4 of his commander points on AFT.

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I just started playing Kagero and i really like it. Even against tier 10s this ship can do well.

 

Definitely take torp reload, not the smoke. I'm also using RPF to avoid getting jumped by other DD. Staying hidden and flanking the enemy is a lot of fun and I know it makes the enemy team nervous:)

 

This ship is a master of the high alpha strike, but it requires patience and planning. Sometimes you have to wait for scout planes and hydro to end before sending torpedos. If you notice ships making evasive turns shortly after launching torps they were likely spoted by planes or hydro.

 

 

 

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He did. 5.4km concealment is the max with all module, skill, and camo. OP's problem is he wanted to invisi-fire but didn't want to use 4 of his commander points on AFT.

 

The Kagero is not a ship that need invisi-firing that much. Is better not to try using her invisi-fire window unless you want to cover some teammate that is in a bad position. Normally I fire my guns to give them some worry about the torps and not just to farm fires. When they shift their attention to me, it's more probable for my teammates to get citadels or wreck them faster

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I love the kagero, it's an amazing ship

 

I usually get put into T10 battles, and what I do first is go straight for caps

I make sure there's an escape route with cover if I get spotted by a horde or by khab or gearing

 

Her guns are deceptively strong, if you land all your shells at 6 km, you're doing 1500 damage a salvo to enemy DDs

 

If you have CE, then if you move right, you can just go as close as 6 km to BBs in the back of a lemming train and torp them, they won't expect it because they think they're protected by the ships in front

 

The torpedo reload consumable is what I usually use to get me out of tough situations, I don't really ever use smoke in my Kagero because if its insane detection range

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