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Madwolf05

How do we fix battleships?

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Through careful observation this week, I observed a disturbing trend, Battleships have become the worst ships in the game. Nearly every battleship I played with fled from battle as fast as it's propellers could carry it, if they weren't just out right camping being a rock, safe, and free, far away from the deadly dangers of shells and battle.  This is different than before, when they were played cautiously up around the battle, now they're so far in the back, that even if they come out of their safe space, they cannot possibly hope to reach the battle area for may be several minutes. 

 

So, after this observation, I feel like we need to come up with a community solution. How do we fix Battleships to make them great again?

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I don't know what battleships you play with, I'm almost always in the thick of the action.

 

Why do you think my survival rate is so bad?

 

I find the biggest discouragement to aggression, however, is the simple fact that you cannot trust your team. A battleship will not last long under focused fire and requires teammates to help focus down enemy ships during a push. Except, 9 times out of 10, any teammates around the battleship during a push suddenly disappear with their rudders between their legs the second anything red is spotted. Leaving the big, slow battleship alone and expecting it to flip a U-turn just as easily as they did and zoom back with them.

Edited by Destroyer_Kiyoshimo
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I personally believe shrinking the battleship's turning circle and their rudder shift would help, however this would make them ridiculously over-powered...

Remember the Glorious Yamato before they strip the historically accurate 760 meter turn radius? Yamato can literally turn between Montana's reloads and not get citadel whatsoever, and dodge cruiser HE at long range...

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Honestly, I'm just hoping that the CV rework means an AA nerf. Nothing like a wave of torpedo bombers to punish campers.

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Honestly, I'm just hoping that the CV rework means an AA nerf. Nothing like a wave of torpedo bombers to punish campers.

 

The skill tree rework already kinda did that. Now BB players don't get two easy AA skills as a matter of course, they gotta choose and many of the other skills are very helpful to ship on ship engagements.

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The issue is battleships in real life only had two real counters, CV's and other battleships.  (some could argue submarines but they are not in game)

 

WG is trying to balance a game were battleships can be countered by DD's and CA's. There lies the problem. It is hard to balance a game while using mostly real world data for the ships. 

 

IMO there is no real fix. 

Edited by Rangestalker
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I've found that Battleships are actually some of the strongest ships in the game, if only for their consistency.  They do consistent damage, they tank consistent damage..  They may not be able to influence a battle like a well-played destroyer, but they're always a solid choice, if you're not feeling like getting one-shotted from across the map.  #MakeAmericanCruiserGreatAgain

 

What you're describing is a battleship PLAYER problem.  And there's only one solution to that; always, ALWAYS run with a 3-ship division.

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As mentioned earlier, the problem with BBs is a player problem, not a ship problem.  This ships are very capable.

 

The only way to force behavior beyond the current mechanics is to reduce their range, which will piss of a lot of people.

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I don't think it is necessary to buff/change battleships, the problems are in the way they are played, with people being to cowardly in them.

 

What we need to do!!

Form a battleships sailors club where we can all be friends and be aggressive battleships together.

We can change the way battleships are played to help balance without needing to do stupid buffs that will make bbs even more op in the right hands.

If we make a group of decent players who are willing to be aggressive and play bbs properly, we can fix this, together.

I can finally not be alone when I rush people in my Scharn

 

(happy forever alone face)

Edited by TheBeefKid

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I don't know what battleships you play with, I'm almost always in the thick of the action.

 

Why do you think my survival rate is so bad?

 

I find the biggest discouragement to aggression, however, is the simple fact that you cannot trust your team. A battleship will not last long under focused fire and requires teammates to help focus down enemy ships during a push. Except, 9 times out of 10, any teammates around the battleship during a push suddenly disappear with their rudders between their legs the second anything red is spotted. Leaving the big, slow battleship alone and expecting it to flip a U-turn just as easily as they did and zoom back with them.

 

I'm not criticizing you, but I don't think a poor survival rate is indicative of a good or bad captain. I win 62% of my BB battles and I have a 63% survival rate. I don't do anything special, but play like a big cruiser. I angle off ships that are the same type as me (BBs), and I kill anything smaller than me ASAP, which would be Cruisers and DDs. Honestly, I've never felt fire was a problem in my battleship. I never use my Damage Control Party on it unless there are two fires burning and I hold my repair until it's needed. 

 

I honestly feel that the biggest problem most BB players have, is they're very bad at positioning, and prioritizing targets. As other BB players do, I routinely place an island formation to one side to wall off a portion of the battle from exposing my side, but I do it in a way that I know there isn't a huge threat of ships coming from my exposed side, and my bow is angled in a way that deflects any Battleship or smaller ship from shooting at me without exposing their broadside or driving straight at me. This really only ever can go poorly if the entire enemy fleet shows up, which is why scouting is important and knowing what type of conflict you're about to get into more or less.

 

People trying to 'flatten' up against the sides of islands do themselves a disservice because they must expose their broadside to pull forward and shoot, and backing up is really slow. If they came in at a better angle, they'd still have that protection, and backing up wouldn't be a bad thing because they wouldn't be showing broadside when they peak out.

 

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Fix battleships? No. "If it ain't broke don't fix it." CV's are broke, USN CAs are broke, BBs are not broken.

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Honestly, I'm just hoping that the CV rework means an AA nerf. Nothing like a wave of torpedo bombers to punish campers.

 

The problem I have here is that what some people see as "campers" others see as BB's being played intelligently to their specific strengths.  Not every BB is a brawler.  And in some situations you don't want to get too close to the enemy because there are too many torpedo launching ships.  Better to hang back and hammer the cruisers at a safer range than try to close on them thru the swarms of torps.  Mind you, a "safer range" doesn't have to be particularly long range.  It can be mid range.  But some snobby players seem to think that if you're not brawling in a BB then you're a "camper".

 

 

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The issue is battleships in real life only had two real counters, CV's and other battleships.  (some could argue submarines but they are not in game)

 

WG is trying to balance a game were battleships can be countered by DD's and CA's. There lies the problem. It is hard to balance a game while using mostly real world data for the ships. 

 

IMO there is no real fix. 

 

What in your experience tells you that a CA will counter a Battleship in this game? By and large this is mostly a high tier issue, where ships can invisifire, which is going away soon. Why not angle off the enemy battleship and simply kill the cruiser? I've never had any issues doing this in my personal experiences.

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The problem I have here is that what some people see as "campers" others see as BB's being played intelligently to their specific strengths.  Not every BB is a brawler.  And in some situations you don't want to get too close to the enemy because there are too many torpedo launching ships.  Better to hang back and hammer the cruisers at a safer range than try to close on them thru the swarms of torps.  Mind you, a "safer range" doesn't have to be particularly long range.  It can be mid range.  But some snobby players seem to think that if you're not brawling in a BB then you're a "camper".

 

 

 

The issue really comes down to the word 'safe' though. Most people would probably think 'not being shot at' when they hear the word 'safe.' For a battleship though, that's not what I would consider safe. Safe in a battleship is an engagement you can get in, where you stand a very high chance of winning, or at least not dying.

 

That goes back to your point on strengths and weaknesses of your ship. Sniping a cruiser, even in an IJN BB, isn't really a strength of any battleship. Verse a cruiser you should be closing range where your shots hit more reliably, because at range, the cruiser has a clear hit % advantage. Verse other battleships though a USN battleship doesn't want to get too close to a German Battleship, while he wants to crowd the IJN battleship. The Germans always want to be close, and the Japanese always want to be at the very least medium distance to other battleships.

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How do we fix Battleships to make them great again?

My first thought would be to reduce BB's firing range to the point where they can't effectively out range cruisers.  

 

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Spawn BB's in the front.  Cruisers behind them and DD's in the back.  One of the things that happens with BB's, especially low and mid tier ones is that they are so slow, by the time your DD's have derped into a cap and died, the BB's are just hitting their 21 knot maximum speed and are still 10km from the fight.

 

So, spawn the biggest slowest ships in the front.  Expose them to fire first.  Allow them to fire first.  Let the cruisers and DD's catch up to them.

Edited by Pope_Shizzle
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Kawachii bloom or Cleveland shell flight time (12 secs for 14km) will do a lot to bring ships closer together.

 

Most of the dynamic pushing up gameplay exists lower tier precisely because gun engagement ranges are much shorter. Sure they can still snipe at 21km range. I would just expect a historical hit rate at those ranges.

 

Personally I would prefer to see BB guns nerfed ON TOP of this necessary anti-camping nerf, since as the tanks they should focus on absorbing damage over dealing it. Then damage parity between classes would actually work as opposed to now.

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Spawn BB's in the front.  Cruisers behind them and DD's in the back.  One of the things that happens with BB's, especially low and mid tier ones is that they are so slow, by the time your DD's have derped into a cap and died, the BB's are just hitting their 21 knot maximum speed.  

 

So, spawn the biggest slowest ships in the front.  Expose them to fire first.  Allow them to fire first.  Let the cruisers and DD's catch up to them.

 

That would be an interesting concept to try to see if it would curb some of the current meta.  However, as MadCard05 can attest, we noted several time over the weekend clusters of ships, at the start of the match, just move around at the spawn point while we approached the cap zone.

 

One of the biggest issues I have seen is the need for players to bring all guns to bear on the target.  They will sail all the way to the border if necessary to maintain this.

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max range of BB should not be greater than max range of CA at any tier with max of 20km  for all ships.   longer range just gives them excuse to snipe.

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That would be an interesting concept to try to see if it would curb some of the current meta.  However, as MadCard05 can attest, we noted several time over the weekend clusters of ships, at the start of the match, just move around at the spawn point while we approached the cap zone.

 

One of the biggest issues I have seen is the need for players to bring all guns to bear on the target.  They will sail all the way to the border if necessary to maintain this.

 

Very well put. Which to me, comes down to a very real problem in the game where players don't understand the basic mechanics that would allow them to understand why that is such a bad idea.

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max range of BB should not be greater than max range of CA at any tier with max of 20km  for all ships.   longer range just gives them excuse to snipe.

 

Gives who the excuse to snipe?  Battleships or cruisers?

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max range of BB should not be greater than max range of CA at any tier with max of 20km  for all ships.   longer range just gives them excuse to snipe.

 

Tweak the dispersion for all ship types, making short/medium ranges better and long ranges worse.

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Tweak the dispersion for all ship types, making short/medium ranges better and long ranges worse.

 

Or make shell flight time super garbage so that technically people can still snipe at 19km.....if they can predict movement 20 seconds into the future.

 

Then people can't complain. There seems to be some sort of reflexive screaming whenever accuracy, pen, or alpha (alpha less so in this game) gets touched. Hence shell flight time. 

 

Shift all the skill from sniping from RNG (bloom nerf) to prediction skill (or at these levels clairvoyance.)

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