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Destroyer_Zeka

Fire for a change

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So I had about 6 games in a row, with some incredibly salty players on both teams. All of those salty players just got laughed at, as they should, which is poetic justice if you ask me. But all of them had one thing in common. They were all complaining about fire.

 

Fire in World of Warships is a damage-over-time effect that occurs due to damage taken from enemy high explosive shells or aircraft bomb hits. Fire is represented visually by flames spewing from the deck or superstructure of a ship, as well as by flames along the edges of the in-game user interface. Ships can sustain multiple fires simultaneously; each part of a ship that is on fire increases the amount of damage that a ship suffers per second.

 

Each fire has a base duration of 60 seconds, meaning that a fire which is allowed to burn for the full duration will consume 18% of a ship's maximum health (24% for carriers). Captains of capital ships — aircraft carriers and battleships — can quickly see, then, that while one fire might be considered a nuisance, two or more are a major threat to their ship. Furthermore, Ships that are on fire have their surface detection range increased by 3.0 km and their aerial detection radius increased by 2.0 km. This is particularly noteworthy for destroyer captains.
Aircraft carriers that are on fire cannot launch or recover aircraft.

Quick Note, the above info is directly copied and pasted from the WoWS wiki; not my own work

 

So its easy for fire to appear to be way OP, right? It is op, RIGHT? Wrong. While fire does rack up very large amounts of damage over time, especially against targets like BBs, is it really OP? And the answer to that is no. Fire damage is (WORD FOR WORD FROM THE WOWS WIKI, BTW) 100% REPAIRABLE. That's right. Every point of damage caused to your ship by fires can be recovered by the repair party consumable. Furthermore, with the new captain skills such as Fire Prevention, and signal flags and upgrade modules all contribute to anti-fire capabilities of any warsip. Hell, the duration can be cut clean in half (to about 30 seconds) on most ships with the right upgrades and whatnot. So why is it considered OP?

 

The answer all lies in the human phycology. When you're sailing your cruiser or BB, and you eat a giant AP salvo and then your HP is about 20,000 less then the last time you saw it, your brain instantly reacts with that "OH CRAP" response. Turn away and retreat. But after a few seconds its over and done with. 5 seconds later everyone's moved and you're pretty much over it. Fire, on the other hand, is a very different matter indeed. Fire produced that phycological effect by making you watch your HP slowly trickle away, knowing there's nothing you can do to stop it, try as you might. And since you burn your damacon on that flooding caused by that torp about 30 seconds ago, and thus nothing you can do but sit there and burn, it produced that phycological rage inside of you, which in turn leads to frustration and, of course, salt. And when you're continuously coming under concentrated fire from multiple enemies, it just takes that desire to push, and to play, out of you. It really messes up an average player's mentality. That's why fire is "OP" in the eyes of so many people

 

There are several things you can do to combat fire. Wise use of damacon parties, timing your repairs, and a variety of captain skills and upgrades can significantly impact your chances of survival against fire. Bear that in mind nest time someone is in a "OP DD" spamming HE at you

 

Edit: Another thing that tends to drive BB captains mad about fire tends to be the ships that set them on fire. The simple act of playing a BB does tend to give the average player a false sense of "invulnerability," if you will. They view BBs as these massive warships, covered in guns, armor, and sailors. As such, captaining such a large and powerful warships gives people the sense that they're basically gods. A look inside an average playe's head usually will go something along the lines of "How can something as small and insignificant scum like a DD possibly do damage to my massive warship? My armor is thicker then their gun caliber ffs." When they are set on fire by a ship several times smalller then they are, it generally drives them nuts knowing that their massive ships are not invulnerable the way the want them to be and that they can be sunk by fire from HE shells from something as small as a DD and bombs from a CV just as easily as they can be sunk by torpedoes or aircraft or even large caliber AP rounds from anither BB or even a high tier CA

Edited by BlueMistPvP
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I'll agree that the main (and really only thing) I hate about fires is the fact its a DoT mechanic, which sucks the fun out of the game, which is not a good thing at all.

 

I'd personally like to change the mechanic to make it so it takes the same amount of damage, but just much faster, to help negate that rage and salt inducing feeling you get when burning and not being able to do anything about it if your DCP is on cool down. It could also make them more dangerous, similar to taking a hit to your citadel or something...

 

idrk, just an idea I guess... v('-' )v

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Fire being 100% repairable is all well and good, except for how easy it is to start.Yeah, light my battleship on fire one time in a game, and I repair 100% of that fire damage. How often do people ever only get set on fire once per game, or even once in time it takes for Repair Party to cool down? My record number of fires set on my ship is 12 in a single battle. I've been burned 11 times in one battle once too, and 9 times in a single battle more times than I could count. A few days ago I got set on fire 7 times from the first 4 salvos that hit my ship - and that was from a total of only about 20 shells. Light my battleship on fire 2 times in a single salvo (let's be honest - that's not even uncommon to do with RU or IJN cruisers) and it's going to take 2 full cycles of heal to heal back that HP. Maximum of heals is 5 per match. Even with premium consumables, unless building for consumable regeneration at the expense of everything else, in the time it takes for heal to cool down, my whole ship can pretty easily be burned to death as long as more than one person is firing at my ship.

What irritates me about fires is that they are almost independent of player interaction. On the side of the fire starter, all that needs to be done is HE needs to be fired that hits. Ability to hit rough sections of the ship is helpful, but not required. On the side of the target, the only real methods of mitigation are to hide/retreat (which are often not even possible) and using DC team properly. The real determining factors in fire starting are pure dice rolls. That's why it irritates me so much. Against torpedoes, planes, and AP shells, I can actively mitigate damage if I'm doing things well, and as the shooter, I can actively take steps to prevent mitigation. With fires, if I am the target, especially if the shooter is a cruiser, it isn't a question of if I will catch fire, or how to prevent burning. The question is how soon will I burn, and how many times? The answer is usually soon, and several. Fire damage my not be that significant of a percentage of total damage done, but it's almost certain damage that will be taken by a ship. The certainty that my ship will inevitably burn several times in a match, and that all I can do is take it on the chin, smile, and hope I live long enough to heal, is pretty devastating.

 

My method of getting people to understand how irritating the dice roll aspect of fires is to ask them this question. "How would you feel in a cruiser, if a battleship scored citadel hits purely based on a percentage chance?" As in, no matter where they hit you, or at what range, angle or part of the ship, all that needs to happen to score a citadel hit is for the enemy to successfully role for a citadel hit. That's how fires work. I've been behind and island before and had a Chapayev set my Iowa on fire in two places from hits that grazed my radar antennae... Seems legit as fvck to me.

 

Edited by Captain_Dorja

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I'll agree that the main (and really only thing) I hate about fires is the fact its a DoT mechanic, which sucks the fun out of the game, which is not a good thing at all.

 

I'd personally like to change the mechanic to make it so it takes the same amount of damage, but just much faster, to help negate that rage and salt inducing feeling you get when burning and not being able to do anything about it if your DCP is on cool down. It could also make them more dangerous, similar to taking a hit to your citadel or something...

 

idrk, just an idea I guess... v('-' )v

Exactly my point. I didnt say this in the main thread but probably should've, but fire is perfectly fine the way it is currently implemented. Your suggestion makes it about twice as worse, as the same fire does the same damage in shorter time, which means it goes out faster but still does the same damage. When the fire is the way you suggest then ships will take the same fire damage twice as often as the fires go out faster but still do x amount of damage and you just get set ablaze again for second x amount of damage, compared to the currentx

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Fire prevention skill is really, really tempting because it's undoubtedly a powerful skill. The thing is, like so many other things, I find I can't spare 4 points for it. I emphasis survivability fairly heavily too, but there just aren't 4 points to go around for it.

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Fires...I like them ALMOST as much as ramming. :)

I have been dead and still getting a crapload of damage credited to me via fires. The ONLY redeeming thing about the Myoko is it's fire ability. I don't even have to add extra signals to it. It starts a fire pretty much every time it hits with HE. However, it does so at the risk of being wiped out with one salvo (experienced it the first time I took it out), since it's citadel must be presented to get a full salvo. I am quite happy with the way fires are currently implemented. As the OP said, there are plenty of ways to reduce the risk. 

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I can cope with fires as long as its fair - if there's a Zao lighting up my "paper" FdG and I can see him then fair enough. If i'm set on fire every 20 secs by an invisible gunboat DD then that sticks in my throat somewhat. 

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My issue with how fire works is the all or nothing of fire fighting along with a union mandated break.

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I can cope with fires as long as its fair - if there's a Zao lighting up my "paper" FdG and I can see him then fair enough. If i'm set on fire every 20 secs by an invisible gunboat DD then that sticks in my throat somewhat. 

 

Thats the edited add on. Although very few VMF DDs are capable of SF( Only Kiev and Udaloi come to mind), Most USN DDs can do it with ease, although they suck at it

 

 

 

 

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Yea, don't get me wrong I know this is a game not a simulator, but the whole "repair crews are on break, we can't put out the fire now" is kind of silly. 

For the most part I think fires are pretty balanced, as long as captains are smart about using the the damage control at the right times.

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Yea, don't get me wrong I know this is a game not a simulator, but the whole "repair crews are on break, we can't put out the fire now" is kind of silly. 

For the most part I think fires are pretty balanced, as long as captains are smart about using the the damage control at the right times.

 

All in all that's exactly the conclusion that I hoped people would draw from this

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For the most part fires are fine.  They are only ever a problem if you are getting heavily focused fired and the fires overwhelm your damage party and repairs......or if you get really unlucky with RNG.  Like having three fires stick moments after using damage con.....

 

But that being said, it's a little sad how many BBs I see put out the first fire.....

Edited by yashma

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Its 18% PER fire. Three fires will take out half of your HP and 60 seconds is damn fast considering your repair party is much longer than that.

 

Then you have the problem that the damage fire causes is made non-repairable by the direct (non-fire) damage of the HE shells that hit you next (as fires always are followed by more HE shells of course).


 

So no, its not that fires are 'not a problem'.. they are. Its absolutely moronic that a ship with very thick armor is hit by shells that cannot penetrate even the lowest armor anywhere on the ship and suddenly you have fires that take out far more HP than a shell that WOULD penetrate could ever deliver.


 

If they made fires only have a chance of starting if the shell penetrated the armor it'd be a whole different ball game.

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Fire is here to shorten the match, and   WG likes it that way.  .   Fire affects other class even worse since most of them doesn't have  heal yet you don't hear complaint from those classes.    Even with fire,  HE still does less dmg than AP according to WG's own stat.   it is kinda funny though.   would you rather see 4k-6k dmg per volley like  Fiji can do using special AP on superstructure?   Because that is what I do with chapayev including the fire with IFHE.     I would bet there will be cry about that  as well. 

 

BB is stil have the highest survival rate.   don' think it need any help.

 

 

 

 

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Fire prevention skill is really, really tempting because it's undoubtedly a powerful skill. The thing is, like so many other things, I find I can't spare 4 points for it. I emphasis survivability fairly heavily too, but there just aren't 4 points to go around for it.

 

It's not worth it.  Not with the current mechanics.

 

As often written in the above posts, fire is spammed on you.  So even if you reduce to 3 the inflammable locations you'll still burn to death.  The 10% reduction is actually 10% of whatever % the impacting HE shell has, for let's say 1%

so for 4pts, you remove 1%(real) chance of fire, and maybe prevent an extra fire.  I push like a moron in battleships, and I get set on fire very often... even with that being said, not... worth... it.  It's extremely rare that I get 2 fires on the castle.  Usually it's front/middle, rear/middle, or front/aft.

 

 

They should return the skill to what it was, and add a static flat % reduction.  Make it same level than DE and give it 2%, or make it a Tier4 skill and give it 3%.  It would help tons against cruisers, but even then not sure it would be worth it, I'd have to test it out thoroughly.

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Fire is here to shorten the match, and   WG likes it that way.  .   Fire affects other class even worse since most of them doesn't have  heal yet you don't hear complaint from those classes.    Even with fire,  HE still does less dmg than AP according to WG's own stat.   it is kinda funny though.   would you rather see 4k-6k dmg per volley like  Fiji can do using special AP on superstructure?   Because that is what I do with chapayev including the fire with IFHE.     I would bet there will be cry about that  as well. 

 

BB is stil have the highest survival rate.   don' think it need any help.

 

 

 

 

This guy nails it. Fact is, most non-BBs can't even scratch the paint on BBs using conventional shells. Not without getting erased real fast. Fire is the ONLY viable option to actually damage BBs. Those decks are made of WOOD, not steel. So fire is always possible. As to the repair crews taking a break, they aren't robots. They are supposed to be human repair crews. They HAVE to rest sometime. 

BTW...fires started INSIDE the ships via shells penetrating armor would be even MORE destructive. Most likely you are looking at magazine explosions a la Hood.

Edited by Deputy276

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The problem is that survivability builds don't really do anything. I tried them on several BB and they didn't make one difference. HE shells from 203s still lolpen for absurd 6k triple fire volleys and you can't really stop a concentrated attack without premium damage control and repair party. At many tiers, several CAs outdamage BBs of the same tier on average. That's including all the terrible players who can't aim.

 

HE should be a bit more thoughtful than "aim for the deck."

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I have found on numerous occasions by letting 2-3 fires burn(not by choice) changes from 100% repairable to needing more than one repair party to recover fully, in which time I will be set on fire again. 

 

Do not mark this as whining, just a statement from a battleship main. If my chances of being set on fire didn't seem to be on every second or third HE salvo, maybe I could actually repair it. 

 

The only real complaint here is that everyone else on the server sets more fires than me, and when I use veritable flamethrower like the Kutuzov, Atlanta, or Myoko- my chances of setting more than 1 fire per battle on average are pretty much squat, and not its not because I'm shooting sections that are already on fire, it's just my personal bias and the server's personal grudge against me because I am Australian, and by God us Aussies do not have enough to deal with- what with deadly drop bears, snails that kill, jellyfish that kill slowly, poisonus mammals, and undiscovered horrors. Oh God no, let's punish me more:trollface::izmena:

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Since I still feel like a new player, I just want to make sure I understand this.  A BB can actually recover HP from a fire.  Cruisers and DDs can not recover HP.  Wouldn't you think it would be DDs and Cruisers complaining about fire?  I know when I play my DD I get lit up all the time.  Is there a mechanic I'm missing here?  Not trying to be antagonistic, but fires are the only way my Destroyer can be somewhat effective using guns.  Otherwise it's pretty much a pea shooter.

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Don't have an issue with fires, but the whole "fire is 100% repairable" is theoretical, and in practice is far less.

 

First off, it's only repairable at all until you run out of repairs. Secondly, if you have multiple fires burning for an appreciable length of time, you can't repair 100% all at once, doing so would take you out of the game for an extended period.

 

I don't think fire is OP, but if it weren't extremely dangerous, consumable management and speccing vs. fires wouldn't be a thing.

 

IMO, the thing to keep in mind about fire is that it can be just as dangerous as direct AP damage or torps, it just gets mitigated/avoided differently.

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"How would you feel in a cruiser, if a battleship scored citadel hits purely based on a percentage chance?"

 

Depending on the Cruiser in question, that sometimes IS the case, or nearly so. Pensacola, NO, pretty much any RN Cruiser. 

Now, if I had the ability to HEAL ALL OF THE DAMAGE DONE AND DOUBLE THE HEALTH POOL i'd be a lot less salty about it.

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Depending on the Cruiser in question, that sometimes IS the case, or nearly so. Pensacola, NO, pretty much any RN Cruiser. 

Now, if I had the ability to HEAL ALL OF THE DAMAGE DONE AND DOUBLE THE HEALTH POOL i'd be a lot less salty about it.

 

No it's not the case at all. If someone fires at and hits a Fiji on the funnel, they aren't going to take citadel damage. They are going to be over penned, and even that is stupid (shooting holes in the funnel wouldn't do anything at all - it shouldn't be part of the hitbox). It being easy to citadel a ship with low armor, to the point where a good shot should give a good result is categorically not the same as if any hit, what so ever, regardless of all other considerations other than "shell strikes vessel" causing the same desired result.

 

On the topic of the HP pools, it's considerably easier for a ship to burn a battleship than it is for a battleship to citadel anything. I freely admit, the heal is strong enough that it's probably OP, but for all people complain about BBs not leading and tanking, it must be said that purposefully getting shot at in this game is pretty hazardous to your health. Ironically, in a BB, I often am most afraid of being killed by the ship I am supposed to counter in the rock/paper/scissors scenario. It's not that hard to position to mitigate enemy BB damage, and it's often not that hard to mostly mitigate enemy DDs. Can't mitigate HE spamming and fires though. Not if you're trying to press an attack and take hits for people.

Edited by Captain_Dorja

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There are an awful lot of BB players that would be better far served by learning how to fit their ships and manage consumables to mitigate fire rather than whining about it.  

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There are an awful lot of BB players that would be better far served by learning how to fit their ships and manage consumables to mitigate fire rather than whining about it.  

 

Exactly what the basic jist of this thread is. Its supposed to explain why fire is NOT op and that people would be far better off just to git gud rather then complain about everything that does damage

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