NikoPower

Help NikoPower play a solid Destroyer.

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So I'm putting this out there. My DD player is definitely a work in progress. I mainly play Cruisers and want to branch out. So I've decided to let community coach me TASTEFULLY and CONSTRUCTIVELY. What did I do wrong? What did I do right?

 

I plan on, time permitting, adding a new replay every other day for you all to check out and give feedback on. Please keep the conversation on task.

 

Today's Replay:

 

Ship: Kamikaze

Map: Two Brothers

 

https://wowreplays.com/Replay/28704-NikoPower-Kamikaze-Two_Brothers


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Nah I can't teach you much.

 

And what the heck are your settings? The graphics look amazing and vivid. Take a screenshot of that so I can copy. >.>

Edited by StrixKitty

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+1 for showing how a dev type person involves with the playerbase, rather than sitting on high on a throne.

 

I'll be following this thread to improve my own tin can play. A match like in the OP I would've considered a very good one.


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This is going to be a good thread, I think. I'll need to check back after watching the reply. 


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Hey Niko, might be a good idea in the future to 1) upload the screenshots of the battle results to wowreplays(gives us quick easy access to the full after battle report instead of uploading it to something like imgur and then posting it here), and 2) give us the detailed report screen, where potential damage, damage recieved, etc. are located. The detailed report screen in particular can really help some of us discern what you could have been doing better or were doing well. Though, if you don't want to show player names it might take a little extra time on your part to censor names out. :)

 


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Current Graphical Settings in game:

 

S9NGJuY.jpg

 

Running:

i7-6700

16GB Ram

 

These graphics were achievable as well on my previous build of :

i7-4790

16GB Ram

GTX 970 Stock


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This might be a good time to actually try watching replays... I will report back later! :)

 


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Too bad you can't look at replay without the Game.exe


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A couple critiques for you:

 

1) You popped smoke as soon as you got into A. If I were you, I wouldn't have done this, it's going to be extremely difficult for anything other than another Kamikaze to sneak up on you, and by dropping a smoke screen, you denied your allies the ability to track that Nagato and Pensacola until your cruisers got close enough to spot them. Plus, spotting damage helps pay the bills.

 

2) Narrow spreads! Wide spreads are good if you're firing into a cluster of enemy ships, but if you're targeting a single ship or two, use narrow spreads, especially on a destroyer like Kamikaze since you only shoot two torps per launcher. Wide spreads don't hurt as much on ships with more tubes per launcher. You were also rather lucky that the enemies seemed to not have WASD.exe hacks installed and running. :P

 

3) Way too slow on engaging that enemy DD(I noticed him a good 20 seconds or so before you swung your camera around. I was internally screaming DD! DD! DESTROYER TO YOUR STARBOARD! Pay attention to that mini-map, especially when you're scoped in ;) ). You were extremely lucky that he didn't decide to use his guns or torp you sooner. If it had been me, I would have been opening up with my guns at those ranges, and you would have gone into panic and had a greater chance of missing with torps.

 

4) Lastly, don't be afraid to use your guns if you're not the closest ship to an enemy and you're already spotted. It may be a bit selfish in a way, but you could have been pounding on that Graf Spee with your guns while your Kongo was reloading. The Graf had to worry about the BB and you were spotted anyway, so why not shoot him?

 

That was really all that stuck out to me. I'm by no means an expert in IJN DD play, or DD play in general, but those were some mistakes I did recognize.

 

 

Edit: Your Corgi flag goes really well with the New Years camouflage! :look:

Edited by GhostSwordsman

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Niko;

Couldn't watch the replay as I do not have the proper program installed' which is frustrating but typical.

First, congratulations on a very good game.

Not great, but damn fine and good results.

You sank three ships, captured one cap solo and assisted on a second, got 4 torp hits with 3 floodings, and set a fire.

And is that a devastating strike icon I see?

Honestly, YOU should be the one teaching DD tactics; this is a damn good game.

( Didn't see the replay, so I don't know why you needed to use your guns. Usually I try to refrain from that as it can get me spotted quickly.)

Seriously, all I have to say is keep up the great work, and call me if you ever want to division;

I'd be GLAD to play with a division partner who has games like this.


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A couple critiques for you:

 

1) You popped smoke as soon as you got into A. If I were you, I wouldn't have done this, it's going to be extremely difficult for anything other than another Kamikaze to sneak up on you, and by dropping a smoke screen, you denied your allies the ability to track that Nagato and Pensacola until your cruisers got close enough to spot them. Plus, spotting damage helps pay the bills.

 

2) Narrow spreads! Wide spreads are good if you're firing into a cluster of enemy ships, but if you're targeting a single ship or two, use narrow spreads, especially on a destroyer like Kamikaze since you only shoot two torps per launcher. Wide spreads don't hurt as much on ships with more tubes per launcher. You were also rather lucky that the enemies seemed to not have WASD.exe hacks installed and running. :P

 

3) Way too slow on engaging that enemy DD(I noticed him a good 20 seconds or so before you swung your camera around. I was internally screaming DD! DD! DESTROYER TO YOUR STARBOARD! Pay attention to that mini-map, especially when you're scoped in ;) ). You were extremely lucky that he didn't decide to use his guns or torp you sooner. If it had been me, I would have been opening up with my guns at those ranges, and you would have gone into panic and had a greater chance of missing with torps.

 

4) Lastly, don't be afraid to use your guns if you're not the closest ship to an enemy and you're already spotted. It may be a bit selfish in a way, but you could have been pounding on that Graf Spee with your guns while your Kongo was reloading. The Graf had to worry about the BB and you were spotted anyway, so why not shoot him?

 

That was really all that stuck out to me. I'm by no means an expert in IJN DD play, or DD play in general, but those were some mistakes I did recognize.

 

 

Edit: Your Corgi flag goes really well with the New Years camouflage! :look:

yes this was great advice...and I have some too...

One thing I think is a GREAT skill for a DD capt., is Priority target...

It is great for high tier cruisers yes, but after trying it on my CLemson, I feel that it is one of the best things to have on a DD... Yes you get "detected" but.... if you are NOT targeted you can save that smoke... you can move behind that rock... you can SHOOT that SHIP...

It is really some of the best info you can get, to save a few seconds of smoke release and if you are teamed behind a BB you will know if you are targeted or if you can just fire at will and not have to worry just yet...

And it is only a tier one skill so one point for some of the best information a detected ship can get... "how many ships see me vs how many ships are TARGETING ME"...

but KUDOS Niko.... well done

 

 


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So I'm putting this out there. My DD player is definitely a work in progress. I mainly play Cruisers and want to branch out. So I've decided to let community coach me TASTEFULLY and CONSTRUCTIVELY. What did I do wrong? What did I do right?

 

I plan on, time permitting, adding a new replay every other day for you all to check out and give feedback on. Please keep the conversation on task.

 

Today's Replay:

 

Ship: Kamikaze

Map: Two Brothers

 

https://wowreplays.com/Replay/28704-NikoPower-Kamikaze-Two_Brothers

 

This is a great idea, a subliminal way to teach players and maybe even Devs how DDs actually work.  DD play gets a lot of hyperbole for being super easy or super hard, or being super nerfed.  Its not that easy to describe in reality. 

However, I would really prefer you play games in the tech tree ships also, especially those mid-tier reworked IJN DDs that WG loves to say are totally balanced and working fine.  A lot of people hate them, they do worse than 50% all throughout the line, and a lot of people say they aren't even fun.  

Using Minekaze is cool, but it doesn't show you what people see when they grind these trees.  

Please play IJN t6s!  Fubuki and Hatsuharu.  And T8 Kagero.  

 

Also, with so many people telling you how they can't access the replays, I hope you consider this a call to make watching replays much easier in the game client.  Also, hoping for Mac support (if it is lacking). 

Secondly, this would be a good time to bring up the ability to spectate a match.  There are times we are waiting for friends, or can't play, but we wanna cheer our friends on, or coach them, and we can't spectate.  Even a delayed stream without communication would be better.  

 

 


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I'll give this a look over this evening.  If you could upload a YT vid link I could watch it during some "busy" time at work and get you faster feedback.  PM me and I will even do a discord/phone chat with you to go over it.


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Just watched the replay and the Sinksalot Fleet has some suggestions. 

1. Captain Skills; You Really Really need Concealment Expert, the Kami twins are good but they become great with CE. Also I would buff your guns as much as possible, AFT for more range and either BFT or AR [maybe both] for faster reloads. 

1.5 If you can't use stealth for torpedo attacks you need to get good at using island cover and positing to sink ships with torps. 

2. I have no idea why you popped smoke when you got to A. As far as I could tell you weren't spotted so why deny your ability to see whats is coming. IJN dds don't like to be surprised they want to be the ones surprising other ships. Smoke needs to be used to cover retreats or team mates. 

3. You seemed a bit timid in your early actions. After taking A you could have pushed those ships north of the cap or helped that foolish DD who rushed the channel to B. If the way is clear keep pushing or move to where there are ship who need to sink. 

4. Map awareness, once the Pensacola was on fire I would have changed targets. Your focus on that cruiser almost got you sunk by not switching your focus to that Mutsuki soon enough. Really surprised you survived that encounter. That DD really screwed up its attack, it should have sank you. 

5. Wide spread isn't useful, it leaves gaps you can sail a barge through. Use those three by two's to create torpedo walls with Narrow spreads. 

6. If you had used guns when that Fujin showed up at B you might have been able to sink it. Don't be afraid to attack with your guns, especially when such a low HP target is in range. Laying the smoke for your team was a good call. But I would have rushed the Graf Spee with narrow spread torps. 

7. Why didn't you move directly to the D cap once B was secured. I know your team was close to winning but I've seen games lost because teams stopped pushing thinking they had won. 

 

Final thoughts; The Kami's are very good once you have a high level captain. These ships excel at scouting, early cap domination and stealth torpedo attacks. I like to stay near my team and scout for enemy destroyers and once the bigger ships have occupied themselves with my team mates I can attack them from the sides. But at some point you have to abandon you cloak of stealth and charge those big ships. Much excitement can be had rushing a Battleship at close range so you can torpedo their broad side from point blank range. Doesn't always work but it is fun. 

 

While your results are good, The Kami is capable of much more.

 fAVMBez.jpg


I believe a good destroyer player is one who embraces the spirit of those Brave Sailors of the Tin Can Navy at the Battle of Leyte Gulf. I hope this helps as I find a lot of enjoyment in playing the small boats and I want others to enjoy it as much as I do. 

The Sinksalot Fleet salutes all those brave enough to sail a Destroyer. 


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I just wanted to point out that he is running mods, which is ironic because he is a WG employee, and one would think that a WG employee would play the game stock.

 

Anyway, I play a Kamakaze, and from what I saw, I think your play is OK. No issue on my end, except that you could be a little more careful with noticing who is around you. Any captain should be aware of what is around him all the time when in any ship.


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Let's get to work:

 

- At the beginning you charged right into the A-cap, but your team was at least 6km behind you. In the worst case one of the Leanders could've appeared around the corner and it would've been over for you.

- Inside the cap you laid down a smoke screen and stayed inside of it. The teammates that moved up now would've appreciated a spotting vessel and there was no immediate threat.

- You hesitated to charge against the two ships above A. With charge I mean getting in Torpedo position. It did work out in the end, but getting there a minute earlier could've helped dealing more damage.

- The first salvo against the Pensacola was a waste. Sorry but firing at 7.5km with 7km Torps is useless.

- How did you not notice the Mutsuki? He was literally next to you.

- With the Pensacola burning and at 500 hp left, a Torpedo salvo is not necessary. I am sure that you could've used that one better against the Nagato.

- You went very close to the Nagato. Too close considering that his Secondaries opened up and that he fired at you.

- When trying to hide inside a smokescreen like you did at B, try to slow down while laying down the smoke. Otherwise you will outrun your smoke generator and pop back into vision. 1/4 speed is recommended.


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Hi Niko,

 

1).  You should have the 4pt skill (10 pts needed) Concealment expert.

2).  You are running a Camo for extra free xp, almost every other camo gives -3% concealment.   With both ~ 5.4km spotting, would have allowed you more freedom in CAP at start.

3).  You decided to pop smoke without being detected.  In this case, I would have waited and seen if I was spotted before using a smoke.  If you can sit in CAP, without using your smoke, that is the best of both worlds.  I would have slowed to 1/2 speed and stayed on the edge of the CAP going clockwise.

4).  No torpedoes!  Use them when you enter the CAP circle.  You have a short (~48 sec) reload.   If you are going to stay in cap, use a salvo or two as potential guesses to where the enemy will enter the CAP circle.  You DO know where they are coming from since the game just started and you are one of the fastest boats.

5).  After the smoke and you held the cap, you still hung around.  You needed to be outside smoke once you held the cap to spot the enemy.   I would have been ready to leave the smoke just as the CAP flipped.

6).  When pursuing the BB and CA - you shot torpedoes when they were running away from you.  Very hard to hit a target running away with only 7km torps.  Also the great benefit of 2 torp launcher is the TIGHT spread.  You want that control when shooting at targets over 3kms away.

7).  At the end in B CAP, you seemed to be mixing up capturing the CAP (don't shoot your guns and reveal your position) and attacking (Don't try to get the CAP).  Pick one or the other.

 


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1) You're using the New Years camo that doesn't provide a detection bonus. Big mistake on ships that rely so heavily on concealment such as DDs. Save them for ships like Moskva and BBs that will be spotted anyways.

 

2) Not sure what level your captain is, but I would hope you have at least a 10 point IJN captain with CE since this is a premium ship. Also noticeably missing is SE.

 

3) Why are your torpedoes set to wide spread at the start of the match? Narrow spread is better 99% of the time.

 

18:00 Smoking as you enter A cap and spot one enemy BB is a mistake. How will you spot enemy ships for your team from inside smoke? It will be much riskier to make any aggressive plays for the next 3 minutes with smoke on cooldown as well. You have guns that are equal to or better than 3/4 of the enemy destroyers.

 

17:10 You cap A with no resistance, but instead of pushing up through your smoke, you decide to circle back around inside A again. From the minimap, it looks like the enemy team is focusing D, so you want to come in behind them ASAP to assist your team on that side.

 

16:20 Looks like you decided to switch sides and help your team on D. It will be harder to land torps from the front and your team has no way of pressuring B with you as the only DD abandoning the side.

 

15:50 Nope, you turned around again. At this point, you could have spent the last 80 seconds moving towards B and already be capping it by now, or torping the ships up north, but you drove in circles while changing your mind.

 

13:55 6 minutes into the game you launch your first torpedoes. Wide spread is unlikely to hit anything at max torpedo range and will be easiest to dodge. The only circumstance in which wide spread is useful is at point blank range when you only need one hit but want to cover as much area as possible. You are locked onto the Pensacola while firing your first two tubes at the Nagato, so you have to guess the lead here (I suspect it's behind the island at the time you choose to fire, but we'll never know). Then you fire your third tube of 7km torps at the Pensacola 8.6km away and receding. I predict the first two sets will be far behind the Nagato and the third set will time out before coming near the Pensacola. Around this time you could have also chosen to go for the beached Mutsuki with your guns instead. Mutsuki has extremely poor gun armament and you should be able to win that duel easily, removing a destroyer off the map instead of gambling that you'll hit torps on a Nagato who's engaged in battle and likely to make turns.

 

13:15 The Nagato does turn into one of your torpedoes that you placed way behind him, fortunately.

 

12:58 You give up stealth to fire 1 salvo of guns at the Nagato. Much better to either stay undetected (my recommendation) or keep firing because you've lost stealth anyways.

 

12:45 Again you're shooting 7km torps at a receding target 7.8km away. Also you appear not to have noticed the Mutsuki on your minimap approaching from the east.

 

12:18 The enemy Mutsuki gets within 1.1km of you before you turn to look at him. You should be 100% dead here if he was a competent player. Fortunately for you, he doesn't spread his salvos out when he only needed 1 torp hit to kill. Turning away from his torps worked out, although you should also have used engine boost to increase your speed here as well in order to outrun his torpedo spreads. Generally I prefer to turn in to torpedo spreads, but at this range it's risky as well, you might take one on the bow by turning in.

 

11:45 You waste a torpedo cooldown on a ship with 473 HP that's burning and that you will kill in 2 seconds with your next gun salvo.

 

11:27 The Nagato is looking at you, I would either try to weave dodge his salvo and then smoke or smoke immediately and hope he's still reloading while you disappear.

 

10:45 You took a lot of secondary hits for staying broadside to him while spotted. At least you survived and got the kill here, but you could have had 3k more HP remaining if you either turned sooner or smoked.

 

9:00 You smoke as soon as you get in the cap again. And then keep moving full speed so you're detected anyways. 

 

8:50 An enemy DD with 900 HP was spotted 5km from you for 10 seconds. He should be dead from your guns right now. Instead you're sitting in torpedo aiming mode, not entirely sure why. Also, you leave your smoke entirely.

 

8:10 Not entirely sure what you're trying to hit with these torps. The only possible hits you could land are if the Graf Spee has hydro off and also decides to charge into B against 2 BBs and 2 CAs.

 

7:20 Well done holding your torps here to avoid hitting the friendly BB, not everyone would have the discipline. I could tell you wanted to fire, but didn't.

 

6:00 Nothing to say here except that you've been cruising around in scope for several minutes now, which is a bad idea because it limits your FoV and situational awareness, and you're not actually shooting anything. You can scope in for a few seconds to shoot on a moment's notice. Don't sit in scope all game.

 

The game turned out okay for you, but there are many things you can improve on. You wasted two smoke charges in caps that were completely unnecessary. You wasted many torpedoes at the Pensacola who was out of range or about to die anyways. You let the Mutsuki sneak up on you and only his incompetence saved you. You spent a fair amount of time sailing in circles indecisively. You missed a kill on the Fujin when he was 5km away and would have died to one salvo.

Edited by RHINO_Mk_II

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Let's get to work:

 

- At the beginning you charged right into the A-cap, but your team was at least 6km behind you. In the worst case one of the Leanders could've appeared around the corner and it would've been over for you.

 

 

Ah, yes, thank you for bringing this up as I have something I'd like to add.

 

Niko, when you moved into the A cap, you sort of 'hugged' the large island in the center of the map. I personally would have gone to the outer edge in open water. Honestly, open water isn't the best place for an IJN DD to be, but in the case of A cap on Two Brothers, I think it's better because you'll be farther away from any potential threats that move to that peninsula from the north side. You'll be spotted by anything in, or entering, the cap without CE, and going to the opposite side of the cap may have given you an early warning had an enemy actually been there. I've seen plenty of light cruiser teammates(especially Atlanta's) do this and easily nab a destroyer or two that simply don't expect a cruiser to be that close to the cap early in the game.

 

Edit: The point here being, know the terrain you're fighting around and learn to predict what the enemy team is likely to do, and account for the unorthodox strategies you might encounter.. This was a specific example where going against the norm might have been the better choice had the situation played out differently.(usually, one is correct in staying close to island cover in a DD)

Edited by GhostSwordsman

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Niko, would you be OK if I narrated your replay with my own comments and posted it on YouTube?


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The first thing that stuck out: Play USN DDs.

 

The play style is similar to Cruiser play(or more so than running a Kami) and that will help get you acclimated to playing Destroyers, ditto RD DDs(though as to whether they are DDs is arguable imo).

 

fwiw Play Clemson, like a lot, till you feel like you can 1v1 a DD 9/10 engagments. From there branch out and try other lines:honoring:


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Thanks for the feedback so far everyone.

 

  • A couple mentioned I was a bit timid in my battle. This is true. It's mostly because I'm still getting my confidence up in Destroyers. This will change over time.
  • Popping smoke was actually a mistake by my fumbling fingers. It wasn't intentional . I was rather annoyed with myself when I pressed it. I tend to hover my fingers over the R and T key in case I need to hit 1-3 or RTY.
  • I realized that I should have pushed up and around. I got a bit of the lookie loo mentality for a bit and it kept me getting dangerously close to being destroyed.
  • That destroyer.... yeah. I should have see it but I was too busy focusing on two other ships. I was lucky. No more, no less.
  • As for spread and narrow, I tend to go back and forth depending on the situation. I'm not always right, clearly. Lol.

 

Thank you all though. I will get another game in here pretty soon and take your feedback into account. We will see how it turns out.


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