poeticmotion

Upcoming Ranked Season - Concerns with Tier 7 given ranked meta, epicenter, and radar

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My thoughts on the upcoming ranked season, and why the ranked meta makes premium ships far more important at tier 7 than tier 8, thereby effectively slanting the balance farther toward pay2win in a tier 7 ranked season than either tier 8 ranked or random battles.

 

The ranked meta

The meta in ranked is different than randoms, and I expect it to be even more so with the inclusion of epicenter. Ranked uses epicenter and 2-cap domination modes, often with the 2 caps close together (especially Fault Line and Neighbors.) This forces a very small, tight battlefield. Especially in epicenter, DDs (played well) will need to close in and cap, and radar is potentially hugely more powerful than in randoms since the battlefield plays so much smaller (same maps, but the actual effective area in play is far tighter.)

 

As always in epicenter or domination mode, good DD play is critical for a win. If both teams have poor DD play, it tends to be a slugfest. But if one side has markedly better DD play than the other, *or* if one side has markedly better anti-DD play than the other, they can control the cap or caps and thus accumulate points even without killing ships. The side with better DDs (or the side whose DDs are able to survive long enough to cap/control caps) has a markedly better chance of winning. This is also why, in ranked season 5, Bismarcks were the dominant BB and Chappy appeared to be the dominant cruiser; in that tight battlefield, killer secondaries and hydro were a huge factor in helping control caps by killing or driving off DDs.

 

Changes in Radar since Ranked Season 5

Since Ranked season 5, the cooldown time for radar has been halved. Radar did not make a huge difference in season 5, because it was very slow to cooldown and because the meta was BB/DD heavy and because that season did not have epicenter, so there were two caps to try and control. In epicenter and with the shorter radar cooldown, a single radar cruiser can illuminate the entire center zone every 2 minutes (with premium radar, but anyone worth a damn runs premium consumables in ranked). Two or three of them can keep it illuminated almost constantly, making it very difficult for the other side to cap. If one side has three radar cruisers and the other has one, or even zero, that's a massive disadvantage to one side.

 

Why This Matters & An Overview Of Ships

WG has consistently stated their goal for premiums is to make them slightly less powerful than the tech tree versions of the same ship, but often with gimmicks that other ships of that tier/type don't have (i.e. Atago with heal, Kutuzov with smoke, Lo Yang with hydro.) This usually works. There are cases where a premium is drastically OP, but WG does a fairly good job of identifying blatantly OP premiums and no longer selling them. 

 

However, these ships are balanced for randoms and co-op, not ranked. And ranked has a different meta, which means some ships are going to be much more OP compared to their tech tree cousins in ranked than they are in randoms. For several reasons, tier 7 is the tier where this is most obvious and most problematic. 

 

Radar is a consumable that is only available for tier 8 and up ships, with three exceptions, all premiums: Indianapolis, Belfast, and Atlanta. None of these ships are notably OP in randoms; if anything, Indy seems a bit underpowered. Radar will be huge in ranked, especially for epicenter mode, as stated above. And the only way to get radar at tier 7 is to use one of these three premiums. 

 

I expect this season to be cruiser/DD heavy because epicenter. That seems to be a common opinion. We won't know until we're partway through the season. But because radar will be so important, and because of the general way epicenter battles play out, DDs and cruisers will decide a lot of games. 

 

Tier 7 cruisers and ranked

Fiji will be workable for ranked because she's got smoke and can be very stealthy. A fully stealthed Myoko may be workable, especially with her area denial torps. Pensacola is too visible, Shchors too visible and not maneuverable, Yorck...just no. You have two tech tree cruisers that are viable (with the caveat that very good players can probably make any ship work....but we're talking about the average player here.)

 

Even leaving out Flint, because the only players who have her have proven they are good enough to excel at ranked anyway, both Belfast and Atlanta have a combination of attributes that make them incredibly well-suited for the likely meta of ranked. Atlanta brings the ability to fire over islands, which mitigates her survivability issues, plus radar. Belfast has smoke and incredible guns, plus very high stealth, plus radar. 

 

Let's take Trident as an example for Epicenter mode. An Atlanta can park behind the island at NE of epicenter circle and use radar to illuminate the whole cap, then rain down shells anywhere in the central zone without exposing herself to return fire, unless enemy ships flank her, and to flank her requires being way outside the capping area and likely being focused by Atlanta's teammates. A Belfast can smoke up anywhere and illuminate the capping circle; she just has to be aware of lanes through which her smoke can be torped, or astute BB/cruiser players raining shells into her smoke. 

 

There are no free ships that can replicate these abilities at tier 7. And that's huge. In randoms, the fact that a few tier 7s have radar is no big deal. Radar is not gamebreaking. It's not even a huge difference maker. Fiji is competitive with Belfast in almost all ways. Atlanta is clearly not that OP in randoms. 

 

Yes, in a tier 8 ranked season, Atago has repair party which most cruisers can't match (other than Edinburgh) and Kutuzov brings smoke which no one else can match (once again, other than Edinburgh) but neither of those are as critical as radar in the ranked meta. While Kutuzov was a very strong ship in t8 ranked, she wasn't as OP relative to tech tree ships as I believe the premiums will be in tier 7. 

 

The ranked meta makes radar far more valuable, due to the smaller battle areas and teams. Belfast and Atlanta both bring that capability to a tier 7 ranked fight that no free ship can bring, and that alone makes tier 7 ranked cruiser play much more pay2win than tier 8 would be. 

 

BBs and CVs in t7 ranked

BBs, CVs, and DDs are a little less blatant than cruisers as far as the disparities between premiums and tech tree ships at t7, so on their own I don't think it's a huge issue. But it's worth pointing out that the ranked meta does favor premium ships over tech tree ships in all three categories in ways that random battles don't. 

 

Scharnhorst and Gneisenau will almost certainly be the BBs of choice for t7 ranked due to strength at close range. But Scharn's power as a cruiser killer will be exacerbated by the dominance of radar cruisers...if radar cruisers are as important as I think they'll be, Scharns will have a field day and clearly be more dominant than any of the three tech tree BBs. Gneis will be a close second, so I can accept this. 

 

CVs...Saipan is so dominant in t7 that she'll be by far the top CV, and this will be exacerbated by the fact that unlike multi-tier randoms, she will only face t7 AA with her t9 planes.

 

DDs in T7 ranked

My thoughts on DDs in ranked are here in more detail, Essentially, Blyskawica's versatility will make her dominant, and Sims will also be very strong. Mahan will be in the running but is less stealthy than Blys or Sims. Shiratsuyu may be workable because of her stealth, but that will be negated if radar cruisers are as prevalent as I expect them to be. I think Mahan will be workable compared to Blys and Sims, so I'm not as concerned as I am with cruisers, but I do think that ranked at tier 7 will favor premiums over tech tree.

 

At t8, Benson has consistently been the top DD, although I think Akizuki and (possibly, and to a lesser extent) 150mm-armed Z-23 would have given her a run for her money in a t8 ranked season now. (Honestly, a lot of my disappointment was because I was really looking forward to seeing t8 ranked with more variety since Benson has been so dominant...I really wanted my Akizuki in ranked :) )  Lo Yang was OK in ranked, but still no stronger than Benson...Lo Yang traded 20% of gun firepower compared to a tech tree Benson in order to get hydro, plus having the choice for faster, shorter range torps or the stock low-damage but longer range Benson torps. T8 DD play, in other words, is pretty balanced as the one t8 DD premium is different but not stronger than the tech tree DDs in the ranked meta. 

 

In randoms, some DDs do better and some do worse than some tech tree ships...it's pretty balanced. But in the ranked meta, Sims and Blys will likely use their good guns, decent stealth and good area denial torps to dominate, with Mahan close behind. If radar cruisers are successful in keeping DDs from too aggressively pushing the cap, Blys becomes an even better choice because she has the versatility to gunfight at longer ranges, whereas the USN ships can't hit shots at range as easily, but can still hold her own in the caps later in game if the radar cruisers are are gone or pushed out. Shiratsuyu has better stealth than anyone and superior area denial with her torp reload booster, but radar can nullify her stealth advantage. Also, Leningrad might actually be workable depending on how much impact radar has because she is stealthier than Blys and can snipe when needed, although she can't knife fight well. I rank Blys, Sims, and Leningrad the three best DDs for ranked if radar is prevalent, with Mahan and Shiratsuyu both being better than Leningrad (but not better than Blys or Sims) if there is only one or zero radar cruisers in a match. 

 

Conclusion / TL;DR

It's OK, in ranked, that premiums confer capabiltiies on some ships that other ships don't have. I have no issue with this. But, because of the changes made to radar cooldown since the last season, making epicenter a ranked game mode, and how compact the key battle area is in ranked due to epicenter and 2-cap domination, radar will be a huge factor, and the only tier 7 cruisers with radar are premiums. I believe that this potentially shifts the balance in ranked farther towards pay2win than it should. I don't know that WG has considered the effects that the combination of further compacting the effective battle areas and shorter radar cooldowns, and moving the ranked tier down a tier to where only premiums have radar will have on ranked this season. 

Thanks for reading! I'll be interested in thoughts of others, but note that I have not suggested anything about radar being OP in general orother common things people whine about, and will mock any fallacies or strawmen deployed in this thread. :D


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Don't forget that the Kiev is also viable. It's pretty much a DD and to some extents, a CA killer. It's fast enough that Atlanta players will have trouble hitting it, and Kiev's guns hit hard enough to pose a serious threat to her in return.   

Edited by RivertheRoyal

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Don't forget that the Kiev is also viable. It's pretty much a DD and to some extents, a CA killer. It's fast enough that Atlanta players will have trouble hitting it, and Kiev's guns hit hard enough to pose a serious threat to her in return.   

 

I have my doubts. Kiev is best in open water; she's a HE-spewing speed demon, but she has terrible stealth, poor maneuverability, and zero area denial capacity due to short-range torps. If radar is so incredibly prevalent that it's near impossible for stealth DDs to cap, she has potential, but I think she's a poor fit for ranked. Belfast can absolutely hit a Kiev at any range even though Atlanta would struggle, and she can't knife fight. I think radar will be a huge factor in ranked, but if it's such a huge factor that Kiev becomes a viable unit, I think we'll just see very few DDs trying to play. There's nothing Kiev can do in ranked that a cruiser can't do better in the small effective battle areas.

 

I mean, hell, you can get a Belfast down to 8.7km detection with conceal mod and CE, and a Kiev can manage an 8.1 at best. No one plays a Kiev for the stealth, but the advantages Kiev has in place of stealth are largely nullified in the Ranked meta.


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I have my doubts. Kiev is best in open water; she's a HE-spewing speed demon, but she has terrible stealth, poor maneuverability, and zero area denial capacity due to short-range torps. If radar is so incredibly prevalent that it's near impossible for stealth DDs to cap, she has potential, but I think she's a poor fit for ranked. Belfast can absolutely hit a Kiev at any range even though Atlanta would struggle, and she can't knife fight. I think radar will be a huge factor in ranked, but if it's such a huge factor that Kiev becomes a viable unit, I think we'll just see very few DDs trying to play. There's nothing Kiev can do in ranked that a cruiser can't do better in the small effective battle areas.

 

I mean, hell, you can get a Belfast down to 8.7km detection with conceal mod and CE, and a Kiev can manage an 8.1 at best. No one plays a Kiev for the stealth, but the advantages Kiev has in place of stealth are largely nullified in the Ranked meta.

 

I've had a go playing her in the PT, actually. I know that the premiums are not present in there, but I still think—given the results—that she should be considered. With a speed boost flag, Kiev's speed becomes very, very silly, and she can go from one end of the map to the other in no time at all, given the small nature of Ranked battle maps. While the Belfast would pose a serious problem, it has a citadel, no? We jokingly call them stalinium rounds for a reason.

 

Also, given that the Kiev's shell arcs are fantastic for a DD, she's great in destroyer engagements at ranges exceeding 8~9km. That means she's great for driving into a cap first, and bullying away other DD's before they can even get close. Afterwards, hit and run tactics are very effective in the Kiev. Also, there's shouldn't be a threat of being caught by radar, since the Kiev doesn't rely on smoke or concealment in situations outside of breaking contact.  

 

While other ships might do better in some situations, I really think the Kiev shouldn't be discounted. 

Edited by RivertheRoyal

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I've had a go playing her in the PT, actually. I know that the premiums are not present in there, but I still think—given the results—that she should be considered. With a speed boost flag, Kiev's speed becomes very, very silly, and she can go from one end of the map to the other in no time at all, given the small nature of Ranked battle maps. While the Belfast would pose a serious problem, it has a citadel, no? We jokingly call them stalinium rounds for a reason.

 

Also, given that the Kiev's shell arcs are fantastic for a DD, she's great in destroyer engagements at ranges exceeding 8~9km. That means she's great for driving into a cap first, and bullying away other DD's before they can even get close. Afterwards, hit and run tactics are very effective in the Kiev. Also, there's shouldn't be a threat of being caught by radar, since the Kiev doesn't rely on smoke or concealment in situations outside of breaking contact.  

 

While other ships might do better in some situations, I really think the Kiev shouldn't be discounted. 

 

Yeah, she's fast, but she doesn't turn quickly and while the maps may be big, the area in which one can effectively contribute is small since it's focused on the caps. If she tries to dive into a cap first as you suggest, she won't be able to bully other DDs away because she will get focused down hard, and she can't effectively use that high speed in a cap. She has very low hp so when she is going slow enough to be easier to hit (such as when she is trying to cap) she dies quick. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Kiev. She's one of my favorite ships. But I don't believe she will be at all viable for ranked.

 

View PostTheKrimzonDemon, on 28 January 2017 - 12:19 AM, said:

Radar isn't going to be an issue, it's effective range simply isn't far enough.

 

8.49km (which is the range for all three t7 cruisers) is plenty to light up almost the entire epicenter central zone even from the edge, or to light up most of the two cap circles on maps where they are close together (such as fault line or neighbors) if positioned near the middle (which would be difficult to do early game, in fairness, without getting focused down.)

Edited by poeticmotion

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A very great write up and observation. Will be interesting to see how this season in ranked battles play out.

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A lot of good observations. It will be interesting. I agree that Atlanta's and winfasts will be plentiful. I can see battles being short and vicious. I wouldn't write off nagato. From around 12 k and in it's a cruiser deleter. No angling will save you. And the HP pool can handle the he spam.

 

However we all know that many players won't think this much, and we will still see a lot of myokos, colorados, etc.


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I think I've found the perfect solution to this problem: give my Myoko radar....

But honestly, I think Myokos and Pensacolas will be able to keep the Belfasts and Atlantas in check to an extent. They excel at punishing any light cruiser that dares to show a broadside.

Edited by Aduial

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Thank you for your write up!  It looks like you took a lot of time and thought in to it.  I am not looking forward to ranked and am just hoping to Rank out just one more time to get the Flint and then never go there again.  WG just seems to want us all to grind away our souls in Ranked.  For the love of God!  Why T7 and Epicenter?  Hate the teir and that arcady cap mode.

 


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Who know what I'll wind up doing; especially since my best T7 is the Colorado...

 

Bleagh...


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Game has been P2P/P2W since Alpha, not sure why this all of a sudden a surprise. This isn't WoT I think sometimes that is lost on players.


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Game has been P2P/P2W since Alpha, not sure why this all of a sudden a surprise. This isn't WoT I think sometimes that is lost on players.

 

I don't believe the game is P2W as it stands. I only own one premium that I paid for and I do fine (the premium I bought, Leningrad, is not one of my highest WR ships so not really a contributor to my wins). 

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Game has been P2P/P2W since Alpha, not sure why this all of a sudden a surprise. This isn't WoT I think sometimes that is lost on players.

 

I never felt like T8 was P2W though. Lo Yang, Kutuzov, Atago, and Tirpitz were strong, but they didn't bring to the table anything that the tech tree ships couldn't. But at T7, the fact that only prems have radar throws the whole balance off.


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Game has been P2P/P2W since Alpha, not sure why this all of a sudden a surprise. This isn't WoT I think sometimes that is lost on players.

 

P2W?  Hardly.  Example:  Just because I'm in a Belfast doesn't mean I get to triumph over someone in a Myoko just because I paid for  the Belfast.  Its really paying for quick progression and unique playstyles.  All Radar cruisers mentioned have glaring weaknesses.

 

P2P?  This is where you are 100% indisputably wrong.  Nobody had to put in any money whatsoever to play the game.


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P2W?  Hardly.  Example:  Just because I'm in a Belfast doesn't mean I get to triumph over someone in a Myoko just because I paid for  the Belfast.  Its really paying for quick progression and unique playstyles.  All Radar cruisers mentioned have glaring weaknesses.

 

P2P?  This is where you are 100% indisputably wrong.  Nobody had to put in any money whatsoever to play the game.

What glaring weakness? Belfast doesn't have any as fas I know. It's a very well rounded ship. 

Atlanta does have some, but they can be worked around. 

Indianapolis? Again, don't really see any huge faults.


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This is the solution to the camping snipe-fest. I like it. Always evolving :)

 

If I didn't have a Belfast I'd hate it though.


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I'm amazed how many people I have run into that write off the Indy in favor of a Myoko


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What glaring weakness? Belfast doesn't have any as fas I know. It's a very well rounded ship. 

Atlanta does have some, but they can be worked around. 

Indianapolis? Again, don't really see any huge faults.

 

Belfast has no torpedoes or high alpha damage in general.  Rushing it  as a BB or just about any cruiser will punish it, it will be forced to run.  If you sit there and let it wreck you and your DDs, that's entirely your own fault.  Its a support ship that can sniff out ships.  Nothing more.

 

Atlanta?  Please.  Atlanta is not a strong ship.  Its made of glass and dodging its main battery fire is a breeze unless the Atlanta player is extremely good.

 

Indy is a solid ship but its slow reload means that its pretty heavily team reliant to DPS down a DD.  Its slow turret traverse means its going to suffer in a brawl, and doesn't have torpedoes either to in a up-close situation.

 

Sorry, but none of these ships save for the DDs will handle well any BB going to push in alongside of the DDs.  Look at the passive meta.  You can pretend these ships are perfect but you're only making yourself look more ignorant.  Its merely the same old business in these forums, an echo chamber to gather like-minded people.  Every ship has a large weakness or two.  The team must work together to cover up those faults or play to the strengths your ships do have.  This isn't a 1 vs 1 where you're in a Belfast pitted against any DD as much as some seem to make it seem like.


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Sorry, but none of these ships save for the DDs will handle well any BB going to push in alongside of the DDs.  Look at the passive meta.  You can pretend these ships are perfect but you're only making yourself look more ignorant.  Its merely the same old business in these forums, an echo chamber to gather like-minded people.  Every ship has a large weakness or two.  The team must work together to cover up those faults or play to the strengths your ships do have.  This isn't a 1 vs 1 where you're in a Belfast pitted against any DD as much as some seem to make it seem like.

 

You know, you're right. Every ship has a major weakness or two. Most battleships tend to be rather allergic to HE. What can the Belfast, Altanta, and to an extent the Indianapolis do really well? Fling HE.

 

We could sit here and quibble about the downfalls and strengths of all T7 ships in the game.

However, I've always been of the opinion that there's no such thing as a truly bad ship. Any ship, at the hands of a player who understands that ship, can do well. You do you, or whatever. Take whatever ship you want into ranked, or whatever ship you're comfortable with. Whether that be a destroyer, carrier, battleship or cruiser.

Because at the end of the day, a garbage player won't do well in the "obvious picks", like the Scharnhorst, Belfast, or Blys—but a great player can make a floating citadel pepsi-cola look like the single most overpowered ship to grace this game. That's down to understanding, and knowing a ship's quirks.

 

No ship is perfect, yes, but all ships can come real damn close in the right hands.   

Edited by RivertheRoyal

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i hooneslty dont see anything special about the premium ships other than u get xp and coins faster,  all i see is targets...


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Belfast has no torpedoes or high alpha damage in general.  Rushing it  as a BB or just about any cruiser will punish it, it will be forced to run.  If you sit there and let it wreck you and your DDs, that's entirely your own fault.  Its a support ship that can sniff out ships.  Nothing more.

 

Atlanta?  Please.  Atlanta is not a strong ship.  Its made of glass and dodging its main battery fire is a breeze unless the Atlanta player is extremely good.

 

Indy is a solid ship but its slow reload means that its pretty heavily team reliant to DPS down a DD.  Its slow turret traverse means its going to suffer in a brawl, and doesn't have torpedoes either to in a up-close situation.

 

Sorry, but none of these ships save for the DDs will handle well any BB going to push in alongside of the DDs.  Look at the passive meta.  You can pretend these ships are perfect but you're only making yourself look more ignorant.  Its merely the same old business in these forums, an echo chamber to gather like-minded people.  Every ship has a large weakness or two.  The team must work together to cover up those faults or play to the strengths your ships do have.  This isn't a 1 vs 1 where you're in a Belfast pitted against any DD as much as some seem to make it seem like.

Those things are not glaring weaknesses. Rarely are cruiser torpedoes useful enough for the lack of them to be a huge weakness, and a slow turret traverse and reload are what all T7 heavy cruisers have. I'm not really going to disagree about the Atlanta though, because it is very weak in soome situations and very strong in others. I never claimed these ships are perfect, but they don't have any huge disadvantages.

What I call glaring faults are Pensacola's ridiculous detection range or Myoko's weird turret layout+slow traverse. 

Radar usage does not require a 1v1 situation. For example, an Atlanta could use radar from behind an island so that friendy ships can

shoot the enemy DDs. 

Again, I don't think these ships are perfect, and i have no idea why you think that I do. Making myself look ignorant? Look at what you're doing-showing off your inability to read properly. 

The T7 premium cruisers are not perfect, but they certainly are advantaged in a Ranked situation. Of course an unskilled player in a Belfast will not do better than a skilled one in a Fiji, but two equally skilled players? There's no doubt that the Belfast will have  the upper hand. 

Instead of insulting people based on your poor understanding of their posts, try thinking about what it is that they are actually saying.

Edited by Aduial

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You know, you're right. Every ship has a major weakness or two. Most battleships tend to be rather allergic to HE. What can the Belfast, Altanta, and to an extent the Indianapolis do really well? Fling HE.

 

We could sit here and quibble about the downfalls and strengths of all T7 ships in the game.

However, I've always been of the opinion that there's no such thing as a truly bad ship. Any ship, at the hands of a player who understands that ship, can do well. You do you, or whatever. Take whatever ship you want into ranked, or whatever ship you're comfortable with. Whether that be a destroyer, carrier, battleship or cruiser.

Because at the end of the day, a garbage player won't do well in the "obvious picks", like the Scharnhorst, Belfast, or Blys—but a great player can make a floating citadel pepsi-cola look like the single most overpowered ship to grace this game. That's down to understanding, and knowing a ship's quirks.

 

No ship is perfect, yes, but all ships can come real damn close in the right hands.   

 

You're right.  But your argument can be turned on its head-- Every ship can be a piece of junk in the wrong hands.  Aduial over there wanted to sit there and act like those Radar cruisers are infallible P2W machines.  They aren't.  The most u can argue is that it isn't fair a non-premium T7 cruiser doesn't have radar, that's not OP.  

 

Does it smell of monetary greed that only Premiums at T7 have radar atm?  Moreso than usual.  Does that make them OP?  No.  People want to cry about this is silly.  This is not the end of the world, and of this game's issues, this is tiny.


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Those things are not glaring weaknesses. Rarely are cruiser torpedoes useful enough for the lack of them to be a huge weakness, and a slow turret traverse and reload are what all T7 heavy cruisers have. I'm not really going to disagree about the Atlanta though, because it is very weak in soome situations and very strong in others. I never claimed these ships are perfect, but they don't have any huge disadvantages.

What I call glaring faults are Pensacola's ridiculous detection range or Myoko's weird turret layout+slow traverse. 

Radar usage does not require a 1v1 situation. For example, an Atlanta could use radar from behind an island so that friendy ships can

shoot the enemy DDs. 

Again, I don' think these ships are perfect, and i have no idea why you think that I do. Making myself look ignorant? Look at what you're doing-showing off your inabiloty to read properly. 

The T7 premium cruisers are not perfect, but they certainly are advantaged in a Ranked situation. Of course an unskilled player in a Belfast will not do better than a skilled one in a Fiji, but two equally skilled players? There's no doubt that the Belfast will have  the upper hand. 

Instead of inulting people based on your poor understanding of their posts, try thinking about what it is that they are actually saying.

 

You wanted came in to try and argue it is pay to win.  You clearly had that as your agenda for your post.  I cited 1 vs 1 because you act like the Radar cruiser is gonna suddenly going to just win every game for them and that the Radar Cruisers will be able to capitalize on their strengths to a foe that that is susceptible.  Your inability to not handle a differing opinion because you want to jump on a bandwagon of "T7 radar cruiser OP!  WG is making everything P2W!"  All ships have huge disadvantages, you just *refuse* to want to see them.  

 

Epicenter much like Ranked play in general is usually ships moving together and duking it out Close/Medium ranges.  None of those cruisers will do well in those situations.  Radar cruisers will be focused very hard, and most DD players if its going to be so doom and gloom this thread wants to make it out to be then DDs will hang back for awhile.  It'll just be Radar cruisers trying to duke it out.

 

Why don't instead of REFUSING to accept a differing opinion, to try and see the merits of someone who has a different opinion.  Something you -clearly- cannot do in this situation, not that I ever expected any level of ability to reason when the term "Pay to win" being thrown around on here with a serious degree.  All of those ships like any other ships have a trade-off for having what they have.  T7 Battleships will still kick their faces in.

 

And lastly, i'll play devil's advocate here:  Say it is P2W for a moment (its not), well oh noes!  A Company spending money to develop a game wants to be paid for their work!  The horror!  

 

Post edit/thought:  Really though?  You really want to say Belfast with the way it is its not a huge weakness to sit there and just rush it?  Belfast is going to sit there, pop smoke, and try to pepper anything it can and then pop radar whenever.  Seriously, its not going to be hard to deal with unless you're a DD thinking it can yolo torp it.  Which at that point, any DD trying to rush a Cruiser with that many fast-firing guns is going to be in for some pain.  And Pay attention to the OP.  Radar is not game-breaking.  If you want to cry about those T7 Cruisers, we all know why you are.  Its the Radar, and that's all this has been about.  

 

I seriously hope WG releases a Cruiser at T7 in the tech tree with Radar just to shut up this nonsense.

Edited by CaliburxZero

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How to kill a Belfast: Use another Belfast bait him to use his radar, then his smoke, at which point you get into radar range and radar him sitting in smoke and hope that your BBs are paying attention and citadel the crap out of it.


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