PSA for CVs: "If something is repeatedly killing your planes..."

[HazeGrayUnderway]

If something keeps on killing your planes, you need to stop sending your aircraft to that threat.

 

 

Clear Sky is actually a difficult badge to get.  But 'lo and behold, Scharnhorst gets one because our CV kept on feeding planes, planes, and more planes against it.

 

If you come across something, anything that is deleting your planes, you need to steer your aircraft well clear of it.  It may not even be that ship.  It may be some escorting vessel like a Cleveland, Atlanta, Kutuzov, Neptune that is protecting your intended target.  I get an attack run you make results in a bad loss of planes but you can't keep repeating that.  More importantly, CVs cannot afford to lose planes at bad rates because you simply run out of aircraft.

 

CV with 0 planes = WORTHLESS

Worse than that NC sniping at 20km+.

 

The Tier IV-VI CVs in particular are very vulnerable to aircraft attrition because they lack the larger hangar capacity of Tier VII+ CVs.  IV & V in particular are the worst at attrition.  One terrible run with high losses can cripple your efforts for the remainder of the match as you send depleted squadrons.

 

So what do you do?

1.  Attack something else.  The easiest answer.  Surely there's a DD somewhere that can get attacked.  Maybe some enemy ship is isolated and easier to attack.  Anything but throwing planes away for no gain.

 

2.  If it's a high priority, important target like a Battleship but it has good AA, don't go after it at first.  Let your teammates pummel it a bit.  Every BB (or any ship) that has been beaten up a bit loses a bunch of modules, i.e. secondary, anti-aircraft, possibly even main battery modules.  Even a Tier VII+ USN BB with high AA rating will plummet in AA performance after it's been focus fired a bit.  That is when you send your bombers and you'll have an easier time doing it with fewer losses.

 

CVs are the only ships in the game where they have "finite ammunition."  You only have so many planes, so many "bullets" to expend before you're out like in an FPS game.  Only in WoWS, once you're out of planes you got no reload and you simply don't respawn with a fresh loadout like in a FPS game.

[TenguBlade]

What is it with every Scharnhorst driver on the server except me running into stupid CV drivers...

 

[BlailBlerg]

CVs are such a hard class to play right.  Very rewarding but very demanding. 

[Aduial]

Is the Scharnhorst's AA that good? I knew it was decent, but I always thought it was significantly worse than the Gneisenau's. 

[Palladia]

Is the Scharnhorst's AA that good? I knew it was decent, but I always thought it was significantly worse than the Gneisenau's. 

 

I was just thinking that.  I know I've sunk Scharnies before without too many losses.  Maybe this guy was just AA focused?  But if that's so then holy crud, manual targeting AA is a stupidly powerful skill.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

Is the Scharnhorst's AA that good? I knew it was decent, but I always thought it was significantly worse than the Gneisenau's. 

 

Before 0.6.0, Scharnhorst's AA was passable on a Non-AA Spec.  However, if you are one of those ultra-rare crazies that sets Scharnhorst up for AA, it should be good in that capacity.  I think Gneisenau is still better in that department, but both are fairly close to being a BB with "An Atlanta strapped to the side, minus Defensive Fire."

 

Post 0.6.0, typical German BB builds got an AA buff thanks to BFT now buffing AA DPS by +20% instead of the old +10%.  Since most German BBs build for Secondaries that includes BFT and AFT, they all got a nice buff for surface and anti-air duties.  Still, Gneisenau should be better than Shiny Horse.  As before, if you were one of those crazies to build Scharnhorst for AA, she should do even better now than before thanks to that BFT alteration.

[Flashtirade]

One of my latest matches in the Lexington had me choosing between striking a Yamato, a Minotaur, a Missouri, and a Hindenburg since they were the only good targets operating relatively alone. Losing 15-18 planes out of 72 doesn't seem bad at first, but reaching into the cookie jar 3 or 4 times makes those reserves go by fast. 

[Palladia]

One of my latest matches in the Lexington had me choosing between striking a Yamato, a Minotaur, a Missouri, and a Hindenburg since they were the only good targets operating relatively alone. Losing 15-18 planes out of 72 doesn't seem bad at first, but reaching into the cookie jar 3 or 4 times makes those reserves go by fast. 

 

Had a match earlier in my Ranger where I saw a lone,  isolated DD.  Now the first thing I do every match is look at what the enemy has and pick the units I need to stay the crud away from.  This match it was a New Orleans and a Mighty Mo.  Anyway I go to perform my run on this DD when all of a sudden half of my torpedo bombers disappear.  From out behind a nearby island glides the New Orleans.  Well rng was on my side the rest of the run since I managed to torp the DD but good lord,  I still lost half the planes in all four of my squadrons before I got away and that was largely just on the outward journey.

[StoneRhino]

Sometimes you have to kill that high AA no fly pos because they are killing your planes trying to kill better targets. It sucks sometimes super bad. But hey they were doing it anyways

[Carrier_Lexington]

Sometimes you have to kill that high AA no fly pos because they are killing your planes trying to kill better targets. It sucks sometimes super bad. But hey they were doing it anyways

 

Honestly, Wargaming should get rid of No Fly ships, except tier 8-10 cruisers. Battleships and destroyers should never be no-fly zones.

[Rhagna]

 

Honestly, Wargaming should get rid of No Fly ships, except tier 8-10 cruisers. Battleships and destroyers should never be no-fly zones.

 

North Carolina, I'm looking at you with your 100 AA rating. 

[Carrier_Lexington]

 

North Carolina, I'm looking at you with your 100 AA rating. 

 

Don't forget Gearing!

[Palladia]

 

North Carolina, I'm looking at you with your 100 AA rating. 

 

"What do you mean I have nothing else to aim for?  *Sighs*  Can't I just...keep my planes on my ship,  then?  I don't wanna attack an NC..."

[TenguBlade]

Honestly, Wargaming should get rid of No Fly ships, except tier 8-10 cruisers. Battleships and destroyers should never be no-fly zones.

The majority of no-fly ships exist at tiers where CVs get an upgrade that boosts strike aircraft HP by 15% and planes are so fast that unless you're running AAGM2 and AFT, your AA won't have any time to knock them down.  And even with AAGM2, AAGM3, AFT, and BFT (at least prior to the patch), the Iowa is still vulnerable to a T9 carrier without losing any AA guns to HE spam: it's a matter of how fast they are and how they attack.

 

T8 CVs are the ones in an awkward position because they don't get access to that upgrade while they're capable of seeing T9s.  Lexington is in the worst-possible position at that tier because enemy fighters are still as dangerous to her air groups as they are for Ranger and Independence of lower tiers, but she's matched up against a lot of opponents with heavy AA batteries.

[aethervox]

My answer is to 'Avoid that' (whatever it is, lol).

[HazeGrayUnderway]

One of my latest matches in the Lexington had me choosing between striking a Yamato, a Minotaur, a Missouri, and a Hindenburg since they were the only good targets operating relatively alone. Losing 15-18 planes out of 72 doesn't seem bad at first, but reaching into the cookie jar 3 or 4 times makes those reserves go by fast. 

 

Tier VIII CVs are jacked up.  Every time I roll out Lexington I'm facing nothing but Tier IX & X ships with their super strong AA.  Even Yamato, the worst Tier X BB in terms of AA, will shred your Tier VIII planes.  Tier VI CVs are in a similar bad spot.  They see a lot of Tier VIII matches.

[Palladia]

 

Tier VIII CVs are jacked up.  Every time I roll out Lexington I'm facing nothing but Tier IX & X ships with their super strong AA.  Even Yamato, the worst Tier X BB in terms of AA, will shred your Tier VIII planes.  Tier VI CVs are in a similar bad spot.  They see a lot of Tier VIII matches.

 

T6 isn't that bad.  My Ryujo can make runs on a Bismarck without too many loses so long as they aren't AA specced.  The usual no-flies apply.  It seems like T9 is when the AA amps up again,  just like at T6.

[StoneRhino]

I'm actually ok with no fly ships. But boy does it suck when red fighters show up just as you are fully committed.

 

With the exception of how people play them. I hate when us cl/cas beach themselves behind an island and "lulz I haz AA"... Atlantas. Even more when they are on my team. "gj take yourself out of the fight with the hope killing a few planes"

[HazeGrayUnderway]

Sometimes you have to kill that high AA no fly pos because they are killing your planes trying to kill better targets. It sucks sometimes super bad. But hey they were doing it anyways

 

And when you do, you have no planes left to get at the "better" targets.

 

How many attack runs is it going to take for you to sink that High AA ship?

How many of your limited bombers are you going to lose against that High AA ship before it goes down?

How much wasted time in increased hangar reloads from lost squadrons are you going to give up?

 

THEN you go after the "better" targets.  If you got any planes left.

 

By all means, go ahead and keep feeding that High AA ship.

When they boast out in Open Match Chat, "FEED ME MOAR PLANES CV" go ahead, keep going after him.  The sooner you do that, the sooner the enemy team gets to play without the threat of your bombers anymore because you greatly diminished your attack power from feeding such High AA threats.  And when you do get to that point, you may as well be dead.

 

A CV with no planes or little to no planes left may as well have been sunk.

[Aduial]

 

Honestly, Wargaming should get rid of No Fly ships, except tier 8-10 cruisers. Battleships and destroyers should never be no-fly zones.

 

But what about the "AA is national flavour" USN BBs?? 

 

Also, I don't think any destroyer is quite a no-fly zone. Maybe a Fletcher/Gearing with a full AA build plus DF, but other than that.........No one really goes with a full AA build on a destroyer anyways. 

[StoneRhino]

Worst one I can think of was a Texas just the other day and 3 attacks and 7 planes on a night my aim was off. The only other target was DD in Texas aa umbrella. In a Zuiho. It depends on the CV I'm playing. For example in a ranger not long ago 1 strike against an Atlanta with DF on.

 

It's all situational. That same night as the Texas I couldn't kill a Cleveland that was on my tail in that same zuiho.

 

Like I said it sucks but sometimes the best option really is to suck it up and deal with the threat. To say "never do something" is bad advice, if you said avoid it or try not to would be different. I'm not advocating foe doing it. Because there are times when its needed. Hell last night I feed an AS independence most of my hanger from my ryujo just to keep his fighters near me and not spotting the DDS that were winning the game for us. I even taunted in chat and kept a full Tb strike on deck just so he would only have eyes for me. He even sent his DBS after me. I'm not saying do that every time but there are times when it works. I even spite killed a graf spree while capping their base in a cleveland's AA umbrella because lulz that game.

[Palladia]

 

And when you do, you have no planes left to get at the "better" targets.

 

How many attack runs is it going to take for you to sink that High AA ship?

How many of your limited bombers are you going to lose against that High AA ship before it goes down?

How much wasted time in increased hangar reloads from lost squadrons are you going to give up?

 

THEN you go after the "better" targets.  If you got any planes left.

 

By all means, go ahead and keep feeding that High AA ship.

When they boast out in Open Match Chat, "FEED ME MOAR PLANES CV" go ahead, keep going after him.  The sooner you do that, the sooner the enemy team gets to play without the threat of your bombers anymore because you greatly diminished your attack power from feeding such High AA threats.  And when you do get to that point, you may as well be dead.

 

A CV with no planes or little to no planes left may as well have been sunk.

 

Every bit this.  You never go after an AA heavy ship until you have no other options.  The only exception to this rule that I can think of is if you are being chased by one and even then it might better serve you to run away angled and try to let your allies destroy them then just suiciding your squads in desperation.

 

Is that last ship and NC or a New Orleans?  Okay now you can begin beating your head against a wall.

[Carrier_Lexington]

 

Every bit this.  You never go after an AA heavy ship until you have no other options. 

Unless you up-tier that ship (obviously excluding Cleveland). Even Clevelands and Atlantas aren't that bad once you're "neutered" their DF (it's on cooldown). In fact, I like to go for Clevelands and Atlantas early in the game with my Lexington, given the chance, first baiting their DF with a "swoop" into their airspace or even a "loss-leader" dive bomber. In fact, I've noticed that a lot of Clevelands and Atlantas wait until your planes have already dropped before activating their DF in hopes of getting "revenge kills." This, of course, means that they can take quite a beating from the bombs that hit. Then, you only have to wait 30-45 seconds, and it's go-time again.

 

Also, North Carolinas, while brutal against Tier 7 and lower aircraft, will take a thrashing from Tier 8 and higher aircraft. At that level, the planes' survivability is close to the NC's AA DPS, so they tend to survive long-enough to get a substantial drop. Obviously, Dive Bombers are more survivable than Torpedo Bombers.

 

Other DF things I've noticed.

 Even if you activate your DF right before the bombs hit the water, though, I've noticed that the game doesn't actually trigger Panic (maybe the incidence is too fast, or maybe WG threw that in there as a "no AA troll" script). Sometimes, even when they're experiencing Panic, I've seen Dive Bomber dispersion circles shrink to "normal size" right as they bomb, getting more hits than normal "panicked" Dive Bombers and dealing lots of damage. Not sure if this is a bug or not.

 

Also, catapult fighters and Torpedo Bombers are iffy. If the catapult fighter (or even fighter squad) latches onto your torpedo squadron close to the yellow line on a manual-drop, the dispersion fans-out, then gets super-close again as the torpedo-bombers release their torpedoes, and then it fan-s out again, however, the torpedoes still travel in the non-Panicked manual-drop pattern. Again, not sure if this is a bug.

[Palladia]

Unless you up-tier that ship (obviously excluding Cleveland). Even Clevelands and Atlantas aren't that bad once you're "neutered" their DF (it's on cooldown). In fact, I like to go for Clevelands and Atlantas early in the game with my Lexington, given the chance, first baiting their DF with a "swoop" into their airspace or even a "loss-leader" dive bomber. In fact, I've noticed that a lot of Clevelands and Atlantas wait until your planes have already dropped before activating their DF in hopes of getting "revenge kills." This, of course, means that they can take quite a beating from the bombs that hit. Then, you only have to wait 30-45 seconds, and it's go-time again.

 

Also, North Carolinas, while brutal against Tier 7 and lower aircraft, will take a thrashing from Tier 8 and higher aircraft. At that level, the planes' survivability is close to the NC's AA DPS, so they tend to survive long-enough to get a substantial drop. Obviously, Dive Bombers are more survivable than Torpedo Bombers.

 

Other DF things I've noticed.

 Even if you activate your DF right before the bombs hit the water, though, I've noticed that the game doesn't actually trigger Panic (maybe the incidence is too fast, or maybe WG threw that in there as a "no AA troll" script). Sometimes, even when they're experiencing Panic, I've seen Dive Bomber dispersion circles shrink to "normal size" right as they bomb, getting more hits than normal "panicked" Dive Bombers and dealing lots of damage. Not sure if this is a bug or not.

 

Also, catapult fighters and Torpedo Bombers are iffy. If the catapult fighter (or even fighter squad) latches onto your torpedo squadron close to the yellow line on a manual-drop, the dispersion fans-out, then gets super-close again as the torpedo-bombers release their torpedoes, and then it fan-s out again, however, the torpedoes still travel in the non-Panicked manual-drop pattern. Again, not sure if this is a bug.

 

Eh,  uptiering doesn't normally mean that much except in a few cases.  Omaha to Cleveland,  Konig to Bayern.  Bayern isn't a no fly zone.  Colorado to NC.  I can tap dance on a Colorado all day but the NC,  even non-AA specced,  is going to eat my planes for lunch.

 

Which I think is the big thing,  speccing.  A ship with BFT,  AFT,  manual AA,  and AA range mods is going to do a heck of a lot more then a ship with none or even only part of those things.  The difference in an AA specced Shiney Horse is night and day.  You just have certain ships that don't require as much babying to be AA efficient.

[Flashtirade]

Temporarily becoming un-panicked while being affected by DF or a catapult fighter is almost certainly a bug.