This patch is the ultimate carrier stealth nerf.

[EdmonEdmon]

1) +10% more AA on the skill.

2) +10% more AA on the module.

3) Dogfighting got cheaper, rear gunner got more expensive.

4) Lots more ammo for fighters.

5) Module that adds fighter support adds more HP and Ammo for fighters.

6) Double Catapult Fighters for 1 skill point!

 

Absolutely NOTHING got buffed that helps you get bombers or torpedo planes to their targets. Sure, there was some minor buffs to turn around time, but no buff to the HP, Speed or Stealth of loaded aircraft.

 

So if people spec secondary or fighter as they did before, you are basically operating in an environment with 20% more AA in it and severely more deadly fighter groups.

 

 

[SergeantHop]

1) +10% more AA on the skill.

2) +10% more AA on the module.

3) Dogfighting got cheaper, rear gunner got more expensive.

4) Lots more ammo for fighters.

5) Module that adds fighter support adds more HP and Ammo for fighters.

 

Absolutely NOTHING got buffed that helps you get bombers or torpedo planes to their targets. Sure, there was some minor buffs to turn around time, but no buff to the HP, Speed or Stealth of loaded aircraft.

 

So if people spec secondary or fighter as they did before, you are basically operating in an environment with 20% more AA in it and severely more deadly fighter groups.

 

 

 

Aw. I'm sorry you have a slightly harder time being able to one-shot any ship in the game from across the map with no risk to yourself now.

[Fast_Battleship_Iowa]

I can't wait to see how WG will "rebalance" carriers. More likely than not they'll be nerfed again.

[Fast_Battleship_Iowa]

Aw. I'm sorry you have a slightly harder time being able to one-shot any ship in the game from across the map with no risk to yourself now.

 

Because one ship being able to completely counter two carriers without any help and by itself, is balanced.

[devastator5000]

Haven't seen much of a nerf yet, the sheer fact that they now give more options and flexibility to CVs makes me think this patch did right by them

[SergeantHop]

 

Because one ship being able to completely counter two carriers without any help and by itself, is balanced.

 

I see you missed the part where those are bot carriers. That means it doesn't necessarily have skills, modules, or upgraded planes and can't manual drop. A single Essex can do 70k to a full AA build C hull Iowa in one sortie just fine. Ask me how I know.

[saagri]

Because one ship being able to completely counter two carriers without any help and by itself, is balanced.

 

To be fair, Bots are terrible. 

[EdmonEdmon]

 

Aw. I'm sorry you have a slightly harder time being able to one-shot any ship in the game from across the map with no risk to yourself now.

 

Carrier is the least played class and the one with the greatest skill divide, with the majority of players playing extremely badly and a few very skilled players making it work.

 

Also, good carrier players are on the front line turning their air groups around quickly and projecting their AA aura.

 

If you are getting one shot, you are probably hopelessly alone and thus anyone could have picked you off.

 

[HMS_Calgary]

Moderated by Volier_Zcit

[EdmonEdmon]

Haven't seen much of a nerf yet, the sheer fact that they now give more options and flexibility to CVs makes me think this patch did right by them

 

What flexibility would that be?

 

All the same skills as before are optimal. They are differently priced but all around out at the exact same cost as before if you go for Torpedo/Secondary build. Or Torpedo/Fighter build.

 

[SergeantHop]

 

Carrier is the least played class and the one with the greatest skill divide, with the majority of players playing extremely badly and a few very skilled players making it work.

 

Also, good carrier players are on the front line turning their air groups around quickly and projecting their AA aura.

 

If you are getting one shot, you are probably hopelessly alone and thus anyone could have picked you off.

 

 

It depends on what stage of the game we're talking. In my Yamato the other night, I got completely abandoned because the ship couldn't keep up. Then I was dead.  One strike from a Taiho. Our carrier did nothing to help me, his fighters were on the other side of the map escorting his strike planes. 

 

That was such a fun game.

 

That's the problem. A good carrier player can absolutely decimate a team. A bad carrier player can cost a match in very short order. Unless I'm in a few specific ships, seeing a carrier in the game makes me immediately hate that round, especially in high tiers.

 

 

Moderated by Volier_Zcit

 

Good talk. 

 

You're saying a tier 8 isn't competitive against tier 10s? Mind [edited]blown. No tier 8 is competitive against tier 10s in any reasonable way, unless the enemy team potatoes. This isn't rocket science. Derp.

[Colonel_ace]

Death to DDs.

Death to Flattops.

Death to Community. 

[EdmonEdmon]

 

 

 

 

That's the problem. A good carrier player can absolutely decimate a team. A bad carrier player can cost a match in very short order.

 

Any player who is as skilful as a top carrier player is, could dominate and/or carry a team in the ship class of their choice.

You are just experiencing the "issue" with difficult to master class, which is that you are either in the top 10% kicking [edited]because you get it (like with all the other classes) or you are in the bottom 90% who are bad.

The difference is there is no "middle" bit like with the other classes where you are kind of moderately good. If your planes get nuked, you do nothing. There is no reward for being moderately good, only for being very good. So moderately good carrier players simply appear to be "bad", doing nothing just like complete novices are. Even if they are "almost dropping" as opposed to "wiped out 5k away from the drop target".
 

 

[HMS_Calgary]

 

It depends on what stage of the game we're talking. In my Yamato the other night, I got completely abandoned because the ship couldn't keep up. Then I was dead.  One strike from a Taiho. Our carrier did nothing to help me, his fighters were on the other side of the map escorting his strike planes. 

 

That was such a fun game.

 

That's the problem. A good carrier player can absolutely decimate a team. A bad carrier player can cost a match in very short order. Unless I'm in a few specific ships, seeing a carrier in the game makes me immediately hate that round, especially in high tiers.

 

 

Good talk. 

 

You're saying a tier 8 isn't competitive against tier 10s? Mind [edited]blown. No tier 8 is competitive against tier 10s in any reasonable way, unless the enemy team potatoes. This isn't rocket science. 

 

every single t8 i ever used is competative at t10. Whats more, all ship classes have options.your a NC in t10mm, all good, hunt the cruisers that you easily pen. A benson? Cap and hunt the kagero and shima. Hipper? Stay at 17km and spam HE. I could go on. Its this choice that allows a t8 to not get totally countered by its enemy counterpart, or by a single division, or a single consumable. Agian maybe try a CV and try your one shotting lol.

 

Good effort trying to salvage any kind of point though.

[Reymu]

1) +10% more AA on the skill.

2) +10% more AA on the module.

3) Dogfighting got cheaper, rear gunner got more expensive.

4) Lots more ammo for fighters.

5) Module that adds fighter support adds more HP and Ammo for fighters.

6) Double Catapult Fighters for 1 skill point!

 

Absolutely NOTHING got buffed that helps you get bombers or torpedo planes to their targets. Sure, there was some minor buffs to turn around time, but no buff to the HP, Speed or Stealth of loaded aircraft.

 

So if people spec secondary or fighter as they did before, you are basically operating in an environment with 20% more AA in it and severely more deadly fighter groups.

 

 

1) BFT has a lot of competition and 2 more points for 10% extra AA isn't valuable to a lot of players. Vigilance and SI

2) CVs are rare enough that I am doubtful it'll be a popular module.

3) Rear gunner was only really useful on Langley and Bogue with those 6 rear gunners per bomber group. Besides, cheaper DE is helpful for Hiryu and Ranger that face AS-specced Saipans.

4) With more options and builds, not all players will be as built for AA, and this will allow CVs to better escort with their fighters

5) Best counter to CV bomber sorties is a fighter strafe, and this helps ensure it's more easily available. My Taiho's upgraded fighters run out of ammo after 2.2 strafes.

6) BBs have it for 90 seconds, CAs do not. You can always use decoy bomber or fighter to prevent the catapult fighter panicking your planes.

 

I think it is less problematic than you make it out to be, pal.

[soko99]

 

Aw. I'm sorry you have a slightly harder time being able to one-shot any ship in the game from across the map with no risk to yourself now.

 

I lolled..    you obviously have no clue about CVs

[cometguy]

Fortunately, carriers are rare enough that most weekday players don't bother specing anything AA. For weekend play, it might be useful to have evasive maneuver.  The slower bomber return speed will suck, but weekend guys are more likely to spec AA because there's more weekend carrier players.  So getting planes back more slowly beats not getting them back at all.

[addanz]

The numbers for T10 Carriers Vs other ship types speak for themselves, Carriers are EXTREMELY overpowered at Tier 10. First of all you cannot look at Win/Loss rating as a guide, there is ALWAYS a T10 CV matched against a Tier 10 CV, 1 of them has to lose...so the win/loss is expected to be close to 50/50 when you look at CV's win/loss records.

 

When the game devolves into "Whichever team has the best carrier will win" the game also becomes "not very fun" for the other 20 or so ships in the match who are not CV's

 

And furthermore this patch hardly touched CV's effectiveness, certainly not enough to change the baseline "Team with the Best CV will win the game" ... World of Carriers (where 2 players decide the game while the other 20 sit about) is not as fun as World of Warships (where 20 players duke it out top decide a winner and noone is reduced to spectator//support)

 

CV Hakuryu 1.5 kills per game @ 6.1 kills per death, 97,000 average damage

CV Midway 1.3 kills/game @ 5 kills per death, 99,000 average damage

\

NO OTHER SHIP COMES CLOSE... and these are AVERAGE numbers.

 

Minotaur 1.1 kills per game @ 1.8 Kills per death  70,000 Avg damage

 

Zao has 1.0 kills per game @ 2.1 Kills per death Average @ 78,000k dmg

 

Yamato  0.9 kills per game @1.7 kills per death 88,0000 avg dmg

 

Shimakaze has 0.8 kills/game @ 1.3 kills per death & 46,000 damage.

 

 

CV's need a Targeted Nerf, this patch did nothing to address the underlying issues ... it nerfed DD's and if anything made it HARDEr for ships to focus on AA builds, not easier.

[Carrier_Lexington]

 

It depends on what stage of the game we're talking. In my Yamato the other night, I got completely abandoned because the ship couldn't keep up. Then I was dead.  One strike from a Taiho. Our carrier did nothing to help me, his fighters were on the other side of the map escorting his strike planes.  Hmm, sounds like you should have been paying attention. Seriously, I've seen plenty of Yamatos that were able to keep up with, and even out-charge, their teams. But, yes, stay alone, and you will die. That's how it's supposed to be.

Also, you died from one strike from a carrier a tier lower than you? What were you on? 3% health? Or were you just stupid and did you burn your Damage Control too quickly? I would believe the latter.

 

That was such a fun game. Being in a Strike Lexington in a Tier 10 match against an AS Shokaku is more fun, 'cause you're still alive, but you can't do anything.

 

That's the problem. A good carrier player can absolutely decimate a team. A bad carrier player can cost a match in very short order. Unless I'm in a few specific ships, seeing a carrier in the game makes me immediately hate that round, especially in high tiers. Then you should stop hating CVs. Instead, see it as a challenge. Git Gud.

 

 

You're saying a tier 8 isn't competitive against tier 10s? Mind [edited]blown. No tier 8 is competitive against tier 10s in any reasonable way, unless the enemy team potatoes. This isn't rocket science. Derp. It's not that it isn't competitive, it's that it's unplayable. Trying your hardest and still getting all your squads wiped by smoked-up Gearings and Des Moines? You can still do things in other ships, like shooting things. Your shells can't get shot down. Your guns don't loop around stupidly before trying to attack. Derp.

Comments in green.

[SergeantHop]

Comments in green.

 

With regards to the Yamato, 26kt cannot keep up with 30kt or faster of cruisers and US battleships. I also spawned at the farthest corner of the team and had to sail 10km to them to begin with. There was literally no way for me to get to the AA support. I asked for help, no one answered. Again, this was at the beginning of the game, I was alive for four minutes. Sent torps and one DB, which I thought was two, lit two fires. So, once the planes had dropped, I burned damage control, only to be set on another two fires by the second dive bomber squadron which was outside of detection. I was engaged with a GK, but he did minimal damage to me, less than 10k. 

 

Don't play strike Lexington then, because it's objectively the worst loadout for your team.

 

I can't "git gud" against something that I have no active counter to. Shooting down planes is RNG based unless specced for maximum AA, in which case you just click at the planes. But in a ship that has a nearly 18 second rudder shift and a 900m turning circle, how much dodging do you think I can do against planes that travel at 150kt? By the time my rudder has moved from neutral to full lock, the planes are already lined up to drop on the side where I'm going to be.

 

And if you're having issues getting your planes shot down by AA ships, maybe consider not flying them over the AA ships? It's no secret that US ships have excellent AA capability. Additionally, if your planes are looping around stupidly, maybe you should git gud yourself?

 

 

every single t8 i ever used is competative at t10. Whats more, all ship classes have options.your a NC in t10mm, all good, hunt the cruisers that you easily pen. A benson? Cap and hunt the kagero and shima. Hipper? Stay at 17km and spam HE. I could go on. Its this choice that allows a t8 to not get totally countered by its enemy counterpart, or by a single division, or a single consumable. Agian maybe try a CV and try your one shotting lol.

 

Good effort trying to salvage any kind of point though.

 

Wow, a player with superunicum stats thinks that tier 8 ships are fine no matter what they're fighting.  No crapa Lex or Shokaku can't oneshot a Yamato. Or a Montana. A lucky hit on a Zao, maybe. I never said that though. I said in another post, an Essex was able to alpha my AA spec Iowa from 60k, but not a tier 8 could oneshot a Yamato. My skill and experience using carriers is irrelevant, because I've played against them enough to see what they can do. Which is the point I'm making.

 

Good effort trying to act smart though.

[Carrier_Lexington]

 

And furthermore this patch hardly touched CV's effectiveness, certainly not enough to change the baseline "Team with the Best CV will win the game" ... World of Carriers (where 2 players decide the game while the other 20 sit about) is not as fun as World of Warships (where 20 players duke it out top decide a winner and noone is reduced to spectator//support) L2P. Use the AA Umbrella. The team that disperses the most loses. The team that can force the enemy team to disperse the most, or kills the most enemy cruisers and destroyers, wins. When there are carriers in play, learn to stay in groups and make concentrated pushes, not camp in the back like BBabies. This also means that destroyers can't go racing-off at full speed and leave everyone else behind. Learn 2 Play.

 

CV Hakuryu 1.5 kills per game @ 6.1 kills per death, 97,000 average damage

CV Midway 1.3 kills/game @ 5 kills per death, 99,000 average damage

\

NO OTHER SHIP COMES CLOSE... and these are AVERAGE numbers.

 

Minotaur 1.1 kills per game @ 1.8 Kills per death  70,000 Avg damage 1.1 is very close to 1.3. Don't try to tell me it's not. 0.2 isn't that much in this instance. Also, if it takes 1.3 kills a game to get 5 kills per death, then it's impossible that a Minotaur could get 1.1 kills per game with 1.8 kills per death, UNLESS either of the two statistics are filled with outliers, which would make them un-usable as evidence. Having checked Warships Today, it's the Midway's stats that are filled with outliers, because ONE PLAYER, cfNiPeR, has a K/D of 35.9 in his/her Midway.

 

Zao has 1.0 kills per game @ 2.1 Kills per death Average @ 78,000k dmg

 

Outliers, man. They're making your statistics un-usable.

 

In case you can't read the green (you might be red-green colorblind, I don't know), there is one player who is pushing up those Midway stats more than others: cfNiPeR. In case you weren't convinced that this guy is a complete unicum, look at his stats here as well. This is a guy who has an average K/D of 5.0 in a Yamato, averages 109k damage per battle, and average ship kills of 1.4.

 

So, yeah. Your stats are completely meaningless.

 

And that's the problem. Currently, all of the stat-reporting agencies have no way to filter-out outliers (within a certain number of standard deviations, or just an Interquartile Range function, would be nice).

 

So, your argument, which is based on meaningless stats, is meaningless. Sorry that you wasted your time.

[StoneRhino]

It sounds less like he 1 shot you and more like you used your cool downs poorly and burned to death.

[Reymu]

The numbers for T10 Carriers Vs other ship types speak for themselves, Carriers are EXTREMELY overpowered at Tier 10. First of all you cannot look at Win/Loss rating as a guide, there is ALWAYS a T10 CV matched against a Tier 10 CV, 1 of them has to lose...so the win/loss is expected to be close to 50/50 when you look at CV's win/loss records.

 

When the game devolves into "Whichever team has the best carrier will win" the game also becomes "not very fun" for the other 20 or so ships in the match who are not CV's

 

And furthermore this patch hardly touched CV's effectiveness, certainly not enough to change the baseline "Team with the Best CV will win the game" ... World of Carriers (where 2 players decide the game while the other 20 sit about) is not as fun as World of Warships (where 20 players duke it out top decide a winner and noone is reduced to spectator//support)

 

CV Hakuryu 1.5 kills per game @ 6.1 kills per death, 97,000 average damage

CV Midway 1.3 kills/game @ 5 kills per death, 99,000 average damage

\

NO OTHER SHIP COMES CLOSE... and these are AVERAGE numbers.

 

Minotaur 1.1 kills per game @ 1.8 Kills per death  70,000 Avg damage

 

Zao has 1.0 kills per game @ 2.1 Kills per death Average @ 78,000k dmg

 

Yamato  0.9 kills per game @1.7 kills per death 88,0000 avg dmg

 

Shimakaze has 0.8 kills/game @ 1.3 kills per death & 46,000 damage.

 

 

CV's need a Targeted Nerf, this patch did nothing to address the underlying issues ... it nerfed DD's and if anything made it HARDEr for ships to focus on AA builds, not easier.

 

And highest you've gone to understand T10 CV is just mostly red stats in Hosho and Zuiho?

 

Nothing seems to indicate you know they're "OP" from actually playing the ship. You know how much harder it is to get TB hits on CAs and DDs when they drop the concealment module and take the godlike rudder shift (from playing Taiho)? Small wonder they would target BBs--which did get rudder nerfs long while ago--and so it'd make more sense in your Yammy and Izumo to stay near another BB since CA can easily outpace you, whereas BBs less so.

[SergeantHop]

It sounds less like he 1 shot you and more like you used your cool downs poorly and burned to death.

 

I only burned for about 15 seconds before I died after that last single dive bomber. Mostly alpha.

[TenguBlade]

Yeah, OP, nothing to help CVs at all, except the fact that they dropped Aircraft Servicing Expert down 3 tiers without any sort of nerf, added a skill that lets you take off while you're on fire, and lowered Air Supremacy down a tier...nope, nothing at all.