German DD Overreaction - All have + 50% Winrate (except T22)

[NeutralState]

 

People crying about how German DDs have crapstats, no camo, taking too much damage from APs.

 

and look, not only high win rates, but high avg dmg done compare to other DDs as well:

 

 

Z-52	10	DD			53.78%	48,765
Z-46	9	DD			55.56%	45,825
Z-23	8	DD			53.10%	35,388
Leberecht Maass	7	DD			53.19%	31,448
Ernst Gaede	6	DD			51.69%	25,617
T-22	5	DD			48.68%	19,712
V-170	4	DD			51.60%	22,795
G-101	3	DD			51.49%	18,505
V-25	2	DD			51.92%	13,573

 

[Jmthebigman]

25.6k high for a t6?????

[PyRo_MaNiaC]

V170 is a strong ship.

[Izolyn]

25.6k high for a t6?????

 

Considering that it's second only to Shinonome in average damage for Tier 6 DDs in overall stats, and third after Shinonome and Anshan for the past two weeks, as well as ranking third in win rate out of eight T6 destroyers in both all-time and two week stats...yeah, that's pretty good for a T6 DD.

[LombardiPls]

Who's been saying they are bad? I've been having a blast grinding through them.

[Mahrs]

Ultimately not a useful indicator of the ship's strengths.  Too many confounding variables.  The assessment of those who play them is likely to remain more relevant for some time, provided the source itself is reliable.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

Danae has a 51% WR so that means it's a great Cruiser, right?

 

[1nc0mp3t3nt_1]

25.6k high for a t6?????

For a DD, yes.

 

And I agree with the OP, as much a fan of the German Navy as I am- their DDs are not overpowered, they are not underpowered. They can be like the Minotaur in their plunging fire on the superstructure, but when you can fit 150mms, you can also full on citadel cruisers that are broadside to death. 

 

With the Germans,  I learned that stealth is an asset, not a crutch to be relied upon. If you see me in my Z23, 46,52, I won't care if your team knows where I am because I have already singled you out and marked you for death

[Izolyn]

Who's been saying they are bad? I've been having a blast grinding through them.

 

Somebody made a thread the other day asking what T4+ KM DD play is like, a fair number of people responded with "finding a different line."

I maintain that if I've been doing as stupidly well as I have been so far (through Gaede and starting Maas) when this is the first DD line I play outside of Clemson, they're not in any way underpowered.

Maybe it's my experience in cruisers, they tend to be a bit harder to hide.

[IceSerpen7]

 

I maintain that if I've been doing as stupidly well as I have been so far (through Gaede and starting Maas) when this is the first DD line I play outside of Clemson, they're not in any way underpowered.

 

Let me get this straight - you have not played any other DD line, yet you somehow managed to come to a conclusion on how good / bad they are? What did you compare them to?

[HazardDrake]

Your whole analysis is flawed.

 

We need to see ship winrate curves to make the sort of determination that you are trying to make.

 

My observation is that the only people who have a german DD above T5 are above average players. I'm sure there are a few potatos mixed in.

[BlazerSparta]

New ship bias.

 

For all practical intents and purposes, the T10s are basically premiums right now, and whenever you look at performance of a tech ship vs a premium clone, the premium is almost always 2-3% higher, if not more, in some cases.

[1nc0mp3t3nt_1]

New ship bias.

 

For all practical intents and purposes, the T10s are basically premiums right now, and whenever you look at performance of a tech ship vs a premium clone, the premium is almost always 2-3% higher, if not more, in some cases.

Except from the perspective of someone who actively plays German DDs, I will reiterate that they are not OP or UP, but somewhere in the middle. The incredible amount of damage I can do in a short time is offset by the incredible number of AP shell breakages that I get, the visibility I have after shooting, and the lack of length of time my smoke is lasting. I am horrible at predicting people with torpedos so I had to find a way to make the guns work, and boy, do they work

[Izolyn]

 

Let me get this straight - you have not played any other DD line, yet you somehow managed to come to a conclusion on how good / bad they are? What did you compare them to?

 

It's more of a "if even somebody who is new to destroyers can do well, I fail to see where the problem."

[suleiman71]

 

Somebody made a thread the other day asking what T4+ KM DD play is like, a fair number of people responded with "finding a different line."

I maintain that if I've been doing as stupidly well as I have been so far (through Gaede and starting Maas) when this is the first DD line I play outside of Clemson, they're not in any way underpowered.

Maybe it's my experience in cruisers, they tend to be a bit harder to hide.

 

I refused to accept such advice in my thread. After it died I did some stat digging. Needless to say it makes me wonder...

 

I think everyone can agree on how much T-22 sucks, though.

[IceSerpen7]

 

It's more of a "if even somebody who is new to destroyers can do well, I fail to see where the problem."

 

Try VMF DDs next - you'll figure out where the problem is very rapidly.

[MackDye]

WoWS and WoT players overreact...........say it aint so. I swear WG attracts the biggest whiners of all the games industry. I mean hell I'd listen to a COD person whine.

[suleiman71]

WoWS and WoT players overreact...........say it aint so. I swear WG attracts the biggest whiners of all the games industry. I mean hell I'd listen to a COD person whine.

 

Listening to CoD is worse because you actually have to hear their shrill voices that are higher pitched than birdsong. God forbid when they start screaming.

[BlazerSparta]

Except from the perspective of someone who actively plays German DDs, I will reiterate that they are not OP or UP, but somewhere in the middle. The incredible amount of damage I can do in a short time is offset by the incredible number of AP shell breakages that I get, the visibility I have after shooting, and the lack of length of time my smoke is lasting. I am horrible at predicting people with torpedos so I had to find a way to make the guns work, and boy, do they work

 

I find that to be tier sensitive.

 

The 105s at low tiers just cant penetrate anything, even the thinner armour at those tiers.

 

Mid tiers, there's a sweet spot - Leberecht Maass's guns have pretty excellent punch.

 

High tiers, my only experience as of yet is playing against them, but the guns there feel very "meh" when I face them.

[Taichunger]

Except from the perspective of someone who actively plays German DDs, I will reiterate that they are not OP or UP, but somewhere in the middle. The incredible amount of damage I can do in a short time is offset by the incredible number of AP shell breakages that I get, the visibility I have after shooting, and the lack of length of time my smoke is lasting. I am horrible at predicting people with torpedos so I had to find a way to make the guns work, and boy, do they work

 

That was my conclusion after Maass and Gaede. They are really well balanced, not too much of anything, good or bad. WG did an outstanding job of balancing, which paradoxically has made them meh. I kept V-170, Maass, and Gaede. The stinker of the line is T-22, though its torps are decent. V-170 might be a bit OP.

 

I attribute their win/damage numbers to the fact that the people playing them already have experience playing DDs. I expect that those numbers will fall somewhat as less experienced players pick up the German line. 

[The_Sparrow]

People crying about how German DDs have crapstats, no camo, taking too much damage from APs.

 

and look, not only high win rates, but high avg dmg done compare to other DDs as well:

Its because they are new and also mostly good players are grinding them because average players are avoiding them (CCs saying their bad and all). So the reason they are good is because they are being played by good players.

[Mahrs]

I find myself wondering if I should hold onto the V-170...I bought back Izyaslav to get some seat time in both and make a comparison.  I loved my little Ognevoi...not sure what'll happen with the upcoming split.  Researched through Tashkent...but...no incentive to buy with the changes coming.  USN DDs are...well...if the KM line had better gun traverse, I'd have an easier time specializing there.  It seems like the gun performance is similar in some respects.  If I am gonna shoot rainbows, I at least want to be able to do-si-do in circles while I do it.  KM guns cannot even decide what bore size...so...do you spec for AFT and not use out of it w/ 150s...or do you just know going in that you need to respect the Captain...or what?  No issues with G-101 or V-170...but, mid tier tends to be a much different ball game as the lines really start to distinguish themselves.  

[Pakuma_]

  

People crying about how German DDs have crapstats, no camo, taking too much damage from APs.

 

and look, not only high win rates, but high avg dmg done compare to other DDs as well:

 

Z-52	10	DD			53.78%	48,765
Z-46	9	DD			55.56%	45,825
Z-23	8	DD			53.10%	35,388
Leberecht Maass	7	DD			53.19%	31,448
Ernst Gaede	6	DD			51.69%	25,617
T-22	5	DD			48.68%	19,712
V-170	4	DD			51.60%	22,795
G-101	3	DD			51.49%	18,505
V-25	2	DD			51.92%	13,573

 

Know that the German DD have significantly less battles than the others. Using such stats to drive an argument is a general no-no.

[dontletmewin]

for suffering from such a bad spotting plume when firing, they actually seem to be doing pretty well from what i've seen of other players. i have been watching other people play them and they seem to operate more like a fire support vessel with torp boat tendencies, hybrid play style i guess. i don't know, maybe some people were too quick to judge. maybe i'll give them a go myself. what do i know i'm still just a noob.

 

 

[1nc0mp3t3nt_1]

for suffering from such a bad spotting plume when firing, they actually seem to be doing pretty well from what i've seen of other players. i have been watching other people play them and they seem to operate more like a fire support vessel with torp boat tendencies, hybrid play style i guess. i don't know, maybe some people were too quick to judge. maybe i'll give them a go myself. what do i know i'm still just a noob.

 

 

Just a warning: even when the torps hit, they don't do spectacular damage, so use your guns and ALWAYS keep an eye on your surroundings for the inevitable return fire