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Flametz

Dealing damage: HEAP/IFHE edition + HE mechanics

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-reserved in case it needs expansion-

 

Editing here because main post is too bloated to edit on phone:

I had a slip last night, the German tier 9 BB doesn't get 128mm secondaries... So it's really only an uptietrd Gneisenau and Curryfurst that benefits with secondaries HEAP/IFHE.

 

Edit 2: Moved sections around, elaborated a little more on sections that seem to have the most questions directed to it and did some formatting tweaking to make it more readable.

 

Also apologies if the post seems to be morphing upon each refresh, it's a WiP as I'm trying to get the format correctly while not making it an eyesore (and doing on-the-go proofreading...)

Edited by Flametz
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152mm HEAP for example allows you to cross both the 25mm bow/stern armor threshold and 32mm bow/stern armor threshold, opening up 5 entire tiers of BBs to HE damage and 3 tiers of CAs to HE damage, as you go from 25.33 (round down to 25) to 32.92 (round up to 33).

 

I think I have found an error here.

 

I am under the impression that the skill adds 25% to HE penetration ("+25% to the armor penetration capacity of HE shells"), i.e., it applies a 1.25 coefficient to the penetration depth. Yet the quoted 152mm calculation is using a coefficient of 1.3. Given +25% for HEAP, 152mm would come out to 31.6mm, which according to your edge case resolution (I haven't tested such cases personally) means it can only pen 31mm.

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I think I have found an error here.

 

I am under the impression that the skill adds 25% to HE penetration ("+25% to the armor penetration capacity of HE shells"), i.e., it applies a 1.25 coefficient to the penetration depth. Yet the quoted 152mm calculation is using a coefficient of 1.3. Given +25% for HEAP, 152mm would come out to 31.6mm, which according to your edge case resolution (I haven't tested such cases personally) means it can only pen 31mm.

 

It adds 30%. The +25% to HE penetration on the portal is a typo:

 

Edited by Flametz

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I think I have found an error here.

 

I am under the impression that the skill adds 25% to HE penetration ("+25% to the armor penetration capacity of HE shells"), i.e., it applies a 1.25 coefficient to the penetration depth. Yet the quoted 152mm calculation is using a coefficient of 1.3. Given +25% for HEAP, 152mm would come out to 31.6mm, which according to your edge case resolution (I haven't tested such cases personally) means it can only pen 31mm.

 

From this Reddit comment, it seems the patch notes were incorrect and should actually have HEAP give a 30%+ armor penetration to HE shells.

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It adds 30%. the +25% to HE penetration on the portal is a typo:

 

From this Reddit comment, it seems the patch notes were incorrect and should actually have HEAP give a 30%+ armor penetration to HE shells.

 

Ah, cool. That sure makes it more attractive with 6" batteries, if nothing else.

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Very nice guide. However, I don't think it's really worth it to get IFHE on the Gneisenau, unless you want to spend another 3 points on DE as well. The fire chance is only 5% (who knows why, the 105mm and the 150mm secondaries have 9% and 8% respectively), and since fire damage is a big factor for secondaries when firing on battleships, IFHE might actually decrease the damage output. Plus, against lower tier ships it doesn't provide a benefit anyways, if what you said about the 128mm secondaries getting a buffed HE penetration is true. 

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Very nice guide. However, I don't think it's really worth it to get IFHE on the Gneisenau, unless you want to spend another 3 points on DE as well. The fire chance is only 5% (who knows why, the 105mm and the 150mm secondaries have 9% and 8% respectively), and since fire damage is a big factor for secondaries when firing on battleships, IFHE might actually decrease the damage output. Plus, against lower tier ships it doesn't provide a benefit anyways, if what you said about the 128mm secondaries getting a buffed HE penetration is true. 

 

Gotcha, edited that at the very end of the TL;DR.

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time to farm lots of NC, Iowa and Montana tears with IFHE Donskoi.

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I think this could potentially be a significant buff for Mogami, because her 155s have the best (HE) DPM of all the light cruisers. If she had to rely mostly on fires to deal damage to T8+ BBs before, she can now use her superior DPM to just melt them, fires or no fires. 

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I think this could potentially be a significant buff for Mogami, because her 155s have the best (HE) DPM of all the light cruisers. If she had to rely mostly on fires to deal damage to T8+ BBs before, she can now use her superior DPM to just melt them, fires or no fires. 

 

Though don't count out lower stuff such as Belfast, where before even a Colorado would resist 6" HE shells. Now the entire green hitbox of that Colorado becomes new punching-bag territory for the mid-tier light cruisers :V

 

I guess the original x1.25 value was originally meant for Mogami, but then WG decided that other 6" cruisers needed the same love.

Edited by Flametz
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btw, Clemson with its 102mm guns also benefits greatly with IFHE, as the T4/5 BBs have 19mm extremities armor and little super structure to shoot at.

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Wow Mogami 155 damage potiential is going to be much closer to the launch days (0.2 or .3?).  She won't have the range traverse and RoF, but will now go back to melting BB's with HE volleys

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btw, Clemson with its 102mm guns also benefits greatly with IFHE, as the T4/5 BBs have 19mm extremities armor and little super structure to shoot at.

 

Yep, definitely gonna try this out on the Clemson. 
Edited by Aduial

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MrDeaf, on 17 January 2017 - 09:04 PM, said:

btw, Clemson with its 102mm guns also benefits greatly with IFHE, as the T4/5 BBs have 19mm extremities armor and little super structure to shoot at.
Yep, definitely gonna try this out on the Clemson. 

 

I had been excited to run CE on my Clemson for a usable invisifire window (I currently don't...my 17 pt Clemson capt runs AFT+DE and no CE) until I read the OP, and immediately thought 'wait a min, Clemson gonna pen everything with this'. So I guess I'll be running AFT+IF/HE instead (although I can still get CE when I get my 18th pt, with this build http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/01000000000000010000001000101001 . I sacrifice Expert Marksman, and given the way I drive my Clemson that comes in handy, but I'll adapt. :D

Edited by poeticmotion

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-reserved in case it needs expansion-

 

 

So, if I am reading this right, would it not also be a great idea for the Yamato with her many HE 127mm secondaries?. Secondary build on her is fun, and has the same 10.6km range

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It looks like this is going to totally change the meta too. If BBs are going to be melted, then few people will play them....

 

Two questions:

 

Will the HE pens lead to a significant increase in dets?

 

Was HEAP ever used on ships? 

 

 

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Hi Flametz, thank you very much for this work. 

 

Assuming T10 German secondaries on GK, how much of a percentage increase in damage did you notice for 100 secondary hits compared to without HEAP? 

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More curious about how this gonna work out on 3 premium BBs and the german 150dd's t6 and 8

 

ishizuchi we know this deals more reliable dmg than with AP

Nikolai (im sure im not the only one wondering this, receiving end as well as giving end)

Mikasa (will it be noticeable for the secondaries and is there a higher tier IJN BB that benefits as well)

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Excellent work Flametz. Indeed it looks like a game changer. Honestly, it might be fun but I do not like it. Way too much power at the cost of reduced fires.

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That 2 min vid about doing in that Iowa with that Gneisenau. From those 3 fires, that's about 25k damage. Still, about 50k in secondaries alone... Then again, the target wasn't shooting back at your full exposed broadside, so there's that too. Still, seems very potent nonetheless, even on actual battle. Hmmm.....

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More curious about how this gonna work out on 3 premium BBs and the german 150dd's t6 and 8

 

ishizuchi we know this deals more reliable dmg than with AP

Nikolai (im sure im not the only one wondering this, receiving end as well as giving end)

Mikasa (will it be noticeable for the secondaries and is there a higher tier IJN BB that benefits as well)

 

In addition: Dunkerque

its HE is wonderful will IFHE add anything or just overkill.

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*reads OP*

Hm.  I wouldn't be surprised to see even more camping if ships have to worry about being wrecked by low caliber HE pens from now on.

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*reads OP*

Hm.  I wouldn't be surprised to see even more camping if ships have to worry about being wrecked by low caliber HE pens from now on.

 

But they'll be set on fire less. IDK, it seems like a bit of a give and take. 

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