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Speedstang

I was trolled by the game.......

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So I finally finished off my Bogue and was immediately excited when I realized I could get Independence. I buy the ship, get my upgrades put on it, free xp the better fighters, and start a match. I get a T8 match against a Ryujo but fair enough, my Bogue always got matched against T7 ships anyways.

 

Then I look down at my planes. Only 4 spares of each. 4. Spares. Not even another squadron.

I'm thinking okay, well just gotta be careful with losing planes, these planes must be tough. I see a hull A New Mex thinking jackpot, and pull my torpedo bombers over to it, but BEFORE I can even launch anything a nearby Bayern murders my entire squadron with long range AA guns only. Just, what....... I launch the 4 spares I have just to have them murdered by a Graf Spee and no, he didn't have defensive fire. And that's it for that match, no planes left.

 

So I take a look at the plane stats in port. AND. IT'S. THE. SAME. TORPEDO. PLANES. AS. THE. BOGUE. And there's no upgrade.....

 

Is this some kind of troll? Less of the same type of planes for a higher tier carrier? Seriously? I just wasted over 5 million credits just to see higher tier ships and have less planes?!?!?

Edited by Speedstang

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Stock independence is basically a faster Langley...just grab that hull ASAP and you are good, but even then you only get 37 planes total.

 

The Bogue's torpedo bomber is actually tier 6 and has the 9.8k power torpedoes right from there...now it's on even ground.

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Bogues torpedo bombers are T6.  For some reason when they reshuffled planes this year they did that.  It didn't make any sense to anyone but eh, oh well.  So no,  your planes are not significantly weaker.  AA,  however,  is much stronger.  Bayern in particular is a little bi...uh,  is a pain because she has strong long range AA.

 

Also,  welcome to the awkward as snot tier.  Even with an upgraded hull you aren't going to have a ton of planes and as I said,  AA just went insane.  T7,  one tier up,  gets nearly double the number of planes you have.  Your direct opponent,  the Ryujo?  She has eleven more planes then you.  In her base hull.  The excuse being that USN has stronger fighters which is true,  but not eleven planes worth stronger.

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Bogues torpedo bombers are T6.  For some reason when they reshuffled planes this year they did that.  It didn't make any sense to anyone but eh, oh well.  So no,  your planes are not significantly weaker.  AA,  however,  is much stronger.  Bayern in particular is a little bi...uh,  is a pain because she has strong long range AA.

 

Also,  welcome to the awkward as snot tier.  Even with an upgraded hull you aren't going to have a ton of planes and as I said,  AA just went insane.  T7,  one tier up,  gets nearly double the number of planes you have.  Your direct opponent,  the Ryujo?  She has eleven more planes then you.  In her base hull.  The excuse being that USN has stronger fighters which is true,  but not eleven planes worth stronger.

 

Sigh, well at least it's worth working towards the Ranger then. Also excuse my salt before, I was just ticked off at all the terrible games I've had today. :unsure:
Edited by Speedstang

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Sigh, well at least it's worth working towards the Ranger then. Also excuse my salt before, I was just ticked off at all the terrible games I've had today. :unsure:

 

No need to apologize,  trust me I understand.  The thing is,  I actually like the Indy.  It had a usable balanced loadout that could stand up to its counterpart.  That doesn't happen again until T10.  At T7-T9 taking a balanced loadout means having less squadrons in the air AND being outnumbered by your opponent.  Though the Essex does have a decent 2/1/1 its at a time when its other modules can launch 5 squads.

 

Just to forewarn you,  USN CV's are an uphill battle.  IJN CV's can do everything USN can do and better.  USN have to pick all or none loadouts until T9/10 which means that you either won't be affecting the sea battle much or you won't be affecting the air battle at all.  At next tier the Hiryu gets a 2/2/2 loadout that can effectively stall you if you have a fighter loadout and can actively destroy you if you have a strike loadout while they deal better damage then you.  This never really gets better.

 

But hey,  I love them.  I have stalled a bit on the Ranger ((Right before the 1000pders,  too)) but once the commander skill patch hits I plan on grinding up to Lex and beyond.

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Bogue doesn't see t7 unless in a division and they face another divisioned CV who is divisioned with a t5 or above.

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The Independence is pretty much the only time when 1/1/1 is truly viable. Enjoy it while you can if you plan to go further up the US carrier line.

 

 

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Bogue doesn't see t7 unless in a division and they face another divisioned CV who is divisioned with a t5 or above.

 

 I thought the change they made is that so it is rarer for that to happen and that you will never fight a CV two tiers higher.

 

Also if you think you got trolled by the game, try being me and trying to torp a Lex in the Hiryu.  The Hiryu has the same TB's as the Ziuho...  There was at time (still is?)when you could end up fighting Taiho's in your  Hiryu or Iowa's and other fun ships that have massive AA or lots of fighters against your 1210 HP TBs.

 

The Indy is pretty fun though, it is fairly easy to nuke T5 and 6 BBs with your TBs and then set 3 fires with your DBs.

Edited by AhosChaos

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OP, not everything is necessarily better tier-wise as you go up a line. The Ranger is better.

They all have their play styles, regardless.

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Independence was a welcome change for me. The speed made it a lot more fun for me to play, even though I lost more often than in Bogue. The small hangar size punishes any losses, and forces you to practice patience, be observant of all your squads, and strafe everything that lines itself up, traits I've largely carried on to Ranger. Make sure you are mousing over ships in the lineup to check AA rating before the match, and avoid the high AA platforms like the plague. Even in Ranger I won't go near AA-spec'd ships or a well-escorted group of ships.

 

As for Ranger being better...for their tier, I found Bogue and Independence to both be better AS platforms. Facing Hiryu's 2/2/2 loadout in Ranger, it really depends on how much he lets me use strafe, aka how well he micros. It is definitely more forgiving, though, if not easier.

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Independence was a welcome change for me. The speed made it a lot more fun for me to play, even though I lost more often than in Bogue. The small hangar size punishes any losses, and forces you to practice patience, be observant of all your squads, and strafe everything that lines itself up, traits I've largely carried on to Ranger. Make sure you are mousing over ships in the lineup to check AA rating before the match, and avoid the high AA platforms like the plague. Even in Ranger I won't go near AA-spec'd ships or a well-escorted group of ships.

 

As for Ranger being better...for their tier, I found Bogue and Independence to both be better AS platforms. Facing Hiryu's 2/2/2 loadout in Ranger, it really depends on how much he lets me use strafe, aka how well he micros. It is definitely more forgiving, though, if not easier.

 

The problem being that 2/2/2 isn't the Hiryu's AS platform,  its his balanced.  A good Hiryu captain is going to just let you strafe all over his planes.  He is going to lose fighters fighting you,  but he is still going to influence the sea battle while staving you off.  Keep in mind that fighting a good Hiryu captain is going to be someone who knows how to strafe as well and he doesn't HAVE to destroy your fighters to be successful.  He just has to stall them.

 

And then you factor in things like more damage overall from their torpedo bombers and their ability to set up runs that the enemy is not going to be able to dodge and the only real advantage the Ranger has over the Hiryu is her bombers.  And if you've checked the numbers,  you can see that's a decent sized advantage.  Issue being...those are HE bombs,  so you're never going to see them hit a target for their full 7800.  Course...you aren't going to see the Hiryu's hit for their 4800 either,  and you've got a heck of a lot more then eight to throw at the enemy.

 

That being said,  assuming all things are equal between a Hiryu captain and a Ranger captain, the Hiryu is going to win.  On paper assuming a void it won't be that way ((Bomber damage inflates the Rangers numbers)) but in reality with the random nature of bomb damage,  the Hiyru is just capable of putting out more damage with its torpedos AND they have the advantage of fighters in strike.  In AS they have the advantage in numbers both in squads and if air superiority is taken,  in plane numbers.  Assuming the Ranger takes a balanced loadout,  the only thing he is going to have an advantage over is a Hiryu in the same stock configuration.

 

That being said,  I am not saying Rangers or USN CV's are completely outclassed by IJN CV's.  They are definitely at  disadvantage,  but they have other advantages I don't think most people think about.  They are focused.  A fighter based USN captain doesn't have to worry about manual drops.  Dive bomber accuracy doesn't really go up that much with the manual circle,  so you can focus more on strafing and keeping an enemy surprised.  A fighter Hiryu HAS to manually drop if he wants to make the most of his single torpedo squadron and later they have to pay attention to their two torpedo squadrons the same way.  Flipside,  a strike Ranger only has to focus on his torpedo bombers,  while a strike Hiryu has to pay attention to fighters AND bombers again.

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I do applaud and encourage all those carrier drivers who continue the grind... I personally hate red carries with a passion... just give me a good carrier driver, need not be great, just good. They have the biggest impact on the match, ship for ship. 

 

Maybe something good will come with the "promised" carrier revamp this year? 

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So I finally finished off my Bogue and was immediately excited when I realized I could get Independence. I buy the ship, get my upgrades put on it, free xp the better fighters, and start a match. I get a T8 match against a Ryujo but fair enough, my Bogue always got matched against T7 ships anyways.

 

Then I look down at my planes. Only 4 spares of each. 4. Spares. Not even another squadron.

I'm thinking okay, well just gotta be careful with losing planes, these planes must be tough. I see a hull A New Mex thinking jackpot, and pull my torpedo bombers over to it, but BEFORE I can even launch anything a nearby Bayern murders my entire squadron with long range AA guns only. Just, what....... I launch the 4 spares I have just to have them murdered by a Graf Spee and no, he didn't have defensive fire. And that's it for that match, no planes left.

 

So I take a look at the plane stats in port. AND. IT'S. THE. SAME. TORPEDO. PLANES. AS. THE. BOGUE. And there's no upgrade.....

 

Is this some kind of troll? Less of the same type of planes for a higher tier carrier? Seriously? I just wasted over 5 million credits just to see higher tier ships and have less planes?!?!?

 

Didnt i tell you not to play the U.S CV line?

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Yeah T6 is where the non dedicated players go to die, but after that Ranger and Lexington are really fun ships to play

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<snip> The problem being that 2/2/2 isn't the Hiryu's AS platform,  its his balanced. </snip>

 

That is my point. At T5/T6, USA AS can compete with all IJN loadouts and USA strike and balanced. At T7, USA AS has a rough go against IJN balanced, let alone AS.

 

Against Zuiho/Ryujo or Bogue/Independence strike or balanced loadouts, Bogue/Independence AS loadouts are capable of effectively controlling the map. You are only up against one enemy fighter squad at most so it is impossible for him to pin you down entirely. Your damage is going to be garbage, but you can really dictate where enemy bombers can strike at. And with the small hangar capacities, one good strafe, e.g. against an alpha strike ball, will decimate your enemy; two will cripple him. Ryujo AS can give you a run for your money, but I saw very few of those, probably due to the drop in damage potential.

 

Once you hit Hiryu's 2/2/2 loadout, you can be pinned down, or pinned and strafed, or simply become overwhelmed with how many squads there are and how quickly they are replenished. Against his AS loadout, you are 2x pinned, then strafed while his TB and DBs rub their junk in your face. With the giant jump in hangar capacity, you have to kill nearly double the number of planes you did a tier earlier to be effective--but you're still only flying 2 fighter squads that are limited by their ammo capacity and transit time.

 

Thus, at their Tier, Bogue and Independence are more effective AS platforms than Ranger. Ranger is probably a better strike platform than her lower-tier counterparts, but I can't speak to that as I have not played any USA strike loadouts.

Edited by Harry_Reckinrod

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