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twitch133

Experienced DD captains, part 2: The carry.

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I come seeking your advice one more time more experienced DD captains. Tracking my stats to chart my improvements, apparently I have forgotten how to win solo in a DD... And I have no idea what I am doing wrong. I am always trying to improve in every metric, just for the sake of improvement. I have have stopped improving, or have nothing left to learn, or have no drive to learn left, it is time for me to move on to something else.

 

I've clocked about 800 solo DD games, and originally had a 60% win rate at that. In the past 400 games solo, that has fallen by almost 5%, while my win rate during those recent 400 games was a crappy 48%... All the while, My average damage has improved by 9,000, my average experience has improved by 122, my survival rate has improved by 6%, my average frags have gone up by 0.15 per game and my WTR has improved by 30.

 

It seems to be the common train of though that DD's are the easiest ship to influence your solo W/L in... My personal performance in them is skyrocketing, but my win rate is tanking to the bottom faster than a yolo BB.

 

I have a couple of recent games, where I racked up 100k plus damage, flag caps, flag defends, and several sinks in Fletcher, but were still horrible losses. For case studies. (There is a link to the battle as recorded by plays.tv on each replay page, I could not get Plays.tv to upload to YT.)

 

Game 1:

 

This was a round of bastion on Atlantic.

 

In the beginning of the round, I call out 2-3 for the team to cap. I make a b-line to 3 to try and get the early cap (I have had very bad experiences with the forts in a DD before, and recognize that an early cap is critical) Most of the team Lemming's behind me. The guys that don't, go south to 1. I realize early that I am overwhelmed on 3 and try to provide smoke cover and vision for my team on the flag. We manage to successfully move the enemy off of 3, into the northwest corner of the map. Where, they will be worthless. All the while, our team that went south to 1, fell and the reds are closing us in a pincer. (Bad... very Bad)

 

This is where I think I made a pretty serious strategic blunder. There was a Benson, that tactically, I felt needed to die, NOW. So, I spent a few minutes chasing him, and netted the kill, but as there was a Tirpitz that was within 10k of me, and a shima within 7k. I spent far too much of my own hitpoints to kill the Benson.

 

After this, there were three Enemy BB's moving in to 3 from 2. And I am left trying to discourage them, and try to kill them before we run out of points, on a whopping 48 health of my own.

 

Hindsight says I should have either gone to from the start. But, I feel, if I had done that, I would have had the same thing happen with the Benson much earlier in the match, and lost so much of my health on 2, while my team crumbled at 3 without me smoking and spotting. Or, not gone after the Benson, and pushed back south to stop the enemy BB's moving north. (Probably the latter would have been best.)

 

Game 2:

 

This was domination round on Two Brothers. (I really don't like this map at high tiers, it feels very crowded.)

 

My team split up into the usual, we had a large force move to D and a smaller force move to A. I spearheaded the large force on D. Got a couple of good torp hits on FDG early, with a torp spread that was only intended to deny the smoke cloud to the enemys, so they could not sit in it. Throughout the match, I duked it out on D with two other Fletchers that were in a division, an FGD and a Scharnhorst. All the while, using two smokes for the team (It was not until the end of the game where I finally used my third smoke for selfish reasons... self perservation)

 

This one I am at a complete and total loss as to what I could have done differently. (We were facing a flint and the driver has a 68% overall W/L, where I think I was the best on my team with 53%) I feel like, if I had fallen back to help out my flank at A, the same thing that would have happened to them, would have instead happened to the team at D....

 

If anyone would care to help a scrub out, thanks in advance.

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Have you tried enjoying the game?

 

Unfortunately for me, there are only really two things I enjoy in video games, winning and improving. Not necessarily in that order.

 

If I am not winning, but I am improving in a way that will influence my ability to win in the future, I am having fun. But, If I am winning without learning or improving, I am not having fun. I can't just skate along and play for the sake of playing. Its just not in me, I'm super competitive in everything I do, and this is one of them.

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I'm oot, so I can't see the replays.

 

I hope one of the other regulars can point out some helpful things for ya.

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I'm oot, so I can't see the replays.

 

I hope one of the other regulars can point out some helpful things for ya.

 

I tried to get them on YT... but there are some flash player issues between YT and plays.tv that is not allowing me to upload them:(...

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Play other ship classes. Experience with BBs and cruisers will improve your DD skills immensely. 

 

It is hardest to carry in a cruiser IME, but a well played ship of any class can have a big impact on the battle outcome... unless it's potato time and then it just doesn't matter what you do. Just do your best. 

 

Your jobs as a DD are:

Scout

Kill enemy DDs

Cap

Damage/sink bigger ships

 

The relative priority of these tasks depends on which DD you are sailing. A Fletcher is good at all 4. An Udaloi isn't great at capping and not as good at scouting, but it excels as wrecking other ships of all classes including enemy DDs. A Yuugumo isn't the ideal DD hunter but it is great at scouting and capping and can take down a Yamato given the chance. 

 

Hope that helps. 

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Play other ship classes. Experience with BBs and cruisers will improve your DD skills immensely. 

 

It is hardest to carry in a cruiser IME, but a well played ship of any class can have a big impact on the battle outcome... unless it's potato time and then it just doesn't matter what you do. Just do your best. 

 

Your jobs as a DD are:

Scout

Kill enemy DDs

Cap

Damage/sink bigger ships

 

The relative priority of these tasks depends on which DD you are sailing. A Fletcher is good at all 4. An Udaloi isn't great at capping and not as good at scouting, but it excels as wrecking other ships of all classes including enemy DDs. A Yuugumo isn't the ideal DD hunter but it is great at scouting and capping and can take down a Yamato given the chance. 

 

Hope that helps. 

 

I actually mained Battleships and Cruisers for most of the time that I have played warships.

 

I have been starting to move on to destroyers because I find their gameplay to be more fun, dynamic and thrilling.

 

My experience with BB's thus far has been: Get into position, face bow on, duke it out until one of you is dead. Yawn...

 

And cruisers: Spend the first 12 minutes of the game positioning yourself, get deleted anyway by a surprise flank. Rage...

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53% WR (60% lately), OP?

 Quit lying that you are just a Scrub.

Quit posting about 2 battles you probably got a win on anyway.

 What a complete Narcissist.

Try tearing yourself away from that mirror (or does it talk to you like in the Sleeping Beauty story?).

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53% WR (60% lately), OP?

 Quit lying that you are just a Scrub.

Quit posting about 2 battles you probably got a win on anyway.

 What a complete Narcissist.

Try tearing yourself away from that mirror (or does it talk to you like in the Sleeping Beauty story?).

 

Lol.... :fishpalm:

 

I have been padding that quite a bit with division play, not for padding, but it is just more enjoyable to play with friends.

 

What I am [edited]and moaning about is my solo win rate. It does not seem to matter what I do, If I am alone, I CANNOT win! I have highlighted the pertinent info for you. OH, and BTW... you can see in my stats here, they were both losses.

 

cerDdMD.jpg

 

I am mainly a Battlefield franchise player. My win rate in BF4 was 80%, it was even higher in Bad Company 2... not that you care, this is not battlefield. But until I can replicate that performance here, I am not going to be satisfied with my  performance, and always looking to improve.

 

Edit.... one thing to keep in mind, I had about 300 battles in the old IJN DD's. My data has been messed with because of it, and some of my displayed win rates are artificially inflated by about 2-4% because of it. My overall win rate is artificially inflated 0.20% right now.

Edited by twitch133

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Just one thing to keep in mind... You are never good enough to stop improving. Not yourself, not me, not Kombat_Wombat, not mun_yeong_seok, not papedipupi, not iChase, not Notser, not Flamu.

 

Everybody should be looking to improve, even if they are currently the best in the game.

 

So, please, If you have nothing constructive to say, go away.

Edited by twitch133

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Just one small observation, you talk about your kills, damage capping etc.

But what you don't talk about is your interaction with other players in the team, now I can go in and get loads of kills, caps etc but thats no good if my whole team dies.

It seems to me you are playing solo in a team game, you are playing for stats instead of playing the objective.

The stats on warships today only show half the picture, i.e damage and kills but there is more to the game than that.

 

In most of my games I will support other players in the team by spotting enemy DDs and keeping them spotted, clever use of smoke, helpful chat. There are games where I won't do huge damage or get lots of kills.  This more than anything will help the team win but it won't be reflected in my stats.

My kill ratio and damage is only average but win rate lately is about 55% which is good for me.

The thing about DDs is people on your team will follow you around the map unconsciously , often when I move up the map to spot I have a couple of cruisers right on my tail and I have to tell them to stay back.

 

So I guess you need to develop a little more situational awareness and be prepared to help others and they will help you though it always doesn't work that way.

for example, today I laid smoke for a Bismark that had only 10 k hp left. If I hadn't laid smoke he almost certainly would have died. The same guy went on to get 2 more kills and saved me from a certain death from a myoko. Obviously this had a big influence on the game but it doesn't show up in my stats.

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I don't know that I'm a great destroyer captain, but I like to type long responses so here we are. :)

 

The first thing you have to realize is that you are not going to win them all, no matter how well you play.  There's a (very lengthy) thread in the Destroyers sub-forum which consists solely of screencaps showing DD drivers' most soul-crushing defeats; there's a 9 kill game in there, numerous 200k+ damage games, multiple caps, multiple defends, you name it.  The rest of your team has to pull at least some weight.

 

You sound like you are very much aware of what's transpiring on the mini map and have a good grasp of evolving tactical situations and what to do about them...as the poster above me asked, are you communicating that to the rest of your team?  I had a game earlier tonight (a very bad game) where I wound up in spectator mode early, and found myself staring at a Benson player who was lobbing HE rounds into a battleship half the map away while there was an enemy Blyskawica sitting in smoke literally 4km away from him.  I said something, and he immediately turned around to confront the Blys; died horribly while trying to do it, but tried.  He'd just been so locked into his binocular mode that he hadn't even noticed the angry smoke behind him pumping HE into our own battleships.  Many players don't pay close attention to game chat once the rounds start hitting, and some teams won't change their tactics no matter what you say, but it's worth a shot and will work often enough to turn a few defeats into victories.

 

Regarding that scenario where you took out the enemy Benson...what were the overall team compositions like at that point?  Killing an enemy destroyer is certainly a good thing to do, but not if it's going to eat up 90% of your health in the process (unless it's the last enemy destroyer).  The Fletcher can still operate just fine from stealth with low HP, but it cuts down on your options; besides which, in that scenario I'd have been much more concerned about killing the enemy Shima.  A Benson can be an annoyance to your teammates, but a Shima can be genuinely dangerous to you if it's set up for max concealment (and you should assume it is).  Always know what ships are in the lobby, on both teams, and prioritize your targets based on their potential threat value toward you; it's a lot easier to carry a team while you're still floating.

 

Particularly at high tiers where most players have at least half a clue, that there's no textbook way to win a game.  Just because you agreed to push B&C in the beginning doesn't mean that's the only thing you can do--if B is much more heavily defended than anticipated, you can still fall back on C and mount a coordinated push later, so long as enough of you survive that initial battle at B.  If the enemy also decided to go B/C and A is just sitting there being neutral the whole time, go ahead and make a move on it if you have the angle.  If nothing else this removes you from the hottest parts of the battle until you have a better picture of where the enemy ships are, and maybe nets you some more XP for the solo cap.

 

Above all else, you have to be focused on having the greatest possible influence on the game without getting yourself sunk.  If you look at the top WR players in any class of ship, you'll also notice that they have outstanding survival rates as well.  Dealing out 150k in fire & torpedo damage early in the game is often far less valuable to the team effort than being there to deal 10k damage in the closing minutes.

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Particularly at high tiers where most players have at least half a clue, that there's no textbook way to win a game.  Just because you agreed to push B&C in the beginning doesn't mean that's the only thing you can do--if B is much more heavily defended than anticipated, you can still fall back on C and mount a coordinated push later, so long as enough of you survive that initial battle at B.  If the enemy also decided to go B/C and A is just sitting there being neutral the whole time, go ahead and make a move on it if you have the angle.  If nothing else this removes you from the hottest parts of the battle until you have a better picture of where the enemy ships are, and maybe nets you some more XP for the solo cap.

 

I'm also tending to see that even at lower tiers and I'm sure due to changes in patches game play is changing. I used to run out in the Kamikaze and almost dominate most games but lately it's getting harder and harder to do good damage let alone get more than 1 or 2 kills and this is a ship free from nerfs. With that I would have to assume that either higher tier players are playing more lower tier ships or mid tier players are just getting better faster. One other thing I have noticed is how passive teams are lately. Had a gave last night where 3 ships were moving forward and capping and 9 ships were in this tight little bundle back in the corner, seeing that more and more. 

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with more people having CE,   it is tougher to dominate in kamiR.       that was the one big advantage it had since you could run high lvl captain.   it still is strong for the tier though.   I am interested in what 1 week stat will say in few days.   firepower/lethality has seen increase in the latest patch, so be more astute.

 

with more people camping, you really have to be aware of support that you get.   I've had BB following me behind and run away at the first sign of enemy. lot of potato players.     no support, no capping hard  (at least not fighting over cap).  survive and hopefully you get a chance to make a difference.     play the ship that you are good at and feel comfortable about.  The changing meta is tough though.  Takes me bit of time to learn it so I do poorly for a while, but I improve back to normal quick enough.     be patient.

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I've had BB following me behind and run away at the first sign of enemy. lot of potato players.

 

I was in the Sims the other night, New Orleans and Tashkent right in tow around an island to A cap, then I spot a CA and Benson. I engage the Benson which I knew could gun me down but would be left really hurting and ended up killing him. By then I was on fire, repair is on cool down but the cap only has 1 CA left in it..... Yep burned to death, looked over my shoulder and Tashkent and New Orleans were running! So I asked "Were are you guys going??" ... They needed help at C - REALLY GUYS?? There were 7 ships at C and you are all the way across the map! It seems to be getting really hard to read my team let alone the enemy.  

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Ability to "Carry"  is all about being able to sustain the fight for long while.   Sims is about knife fight, but it is really dog eat dog type of play.   unless you have advantage, I refuse to do 1v1.    

 

My fun carry story.     I was in my udaloi, and it ended up being me against 4 red .   I killed the first BB (burned it down)  as  edinburg (about half health) and  NC showed up.    NC was in the lead.  I was less than half HP.  I managed to burn NC down as I dodged shots from edinburg.  finally being corner by edinbugh (I had 6k vs 12k),  I charged edinbugh and killed him with AP.  I was down to 1k when last  ship, near full amagi showed up.   lol.  there was less than a min left and he started to run away.  I laughed and told him I was too tired. (after 900 shots fired with near 400hits)   no time left anyway.    I lost that match but still had fun. 150k+ dmg and witherer.

 

learning to play the objective and the long game is something people need to learn.  there are times where you have to yolo   but play wisely.

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Ability to "Carry"  is all about being able to sustain the fight for long while.   Sims is about knife fight, but it is really dog eat dog type of play.   unless you have advantage, I refuse to do 1v1.    

 

My fun carry story.     I was in my udaloi, and it ended up being me against 4 red .   I killed the first BB (burned it down)  as  edinburg (about half health) and  NC showed up.    NC was in the lead.  I was less than half HP.  I managed to burn NC down as I dodged shots from edinburg.  finally being corner by edinbugh (I had 6k vs 12k),  I charged edinbugh and killed him with AP.  I was down to 1k when last  ship, near full amagi showed up.   lol.  there was less than a min left and he started to run away.  I laughed and told him I was too tired. (after 900 shots fired with near 400hits)   no time left anyway.    I lost that match but still had fun. 150k+ dmg and witherer.

 

learning to play the objective and the long game is something people need to learn.  there are times where you have to yolo   but play wisely.

 

In IJN you are limited but I do agree - game I just played I was in the Shima and there was only a BB supporting me against about 5 ships. I spent more time redirecting the enemy than killing but it worked. Took out the Baltimore and held them back from the push but I was being chased by a Yugumo (not where you want to be in a Shima) and was eventually killed. I did what I wanted to do, ensure that the ships that were there stayed there and couldn't do anything. We got 2 of three caps and held them the entire game, everyone else fought what was left and we won. What I don't like is teams that huddle in a corner and think the unit can just push the thru the entire map as a unit. Just feel like some players are so about damage and not using what you have to win. I'm newer to Shima so I have the 20k torps and hate them but they do a good job of making the enemy turn and redirecting them you where you want them.

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Well.... I can do it at tier four. People appear to be so oblivious there that you can be hyper aggressive in Clemson and not get shot at. And by hyper aggressive, I mean, charging enemy BB's that are contesting the cap you want to within 500 meters, lol.

 

raHVohi.png

 

I wonder what kind of performance it would take to pull off a similar win at tiers 9 or 10? 250k, 260k damage and 7 or 8 kills? Or more than that? I still haven't figured it out. My solo win rate in DD's tapers off after Benson. I am completely in awe that I can have more influence over a tier 10 battle with my Benson than my Gearing. (By tapers off, I mean plummets...:()

 

We were down 6 ships to 3 when I killed a BB and Cruiser on A. Moved to B, slaughtered a Nikolai, capped the flag, and then went to C. While capping C, I decided to make a tasty morsel out of both CV's, which I found sitting on top of one another just off the cap, lol...

Edited by twitch133

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