So.... Graf Spee, what am I doing wrong here?

[Speedstang]

Just got my Graf Spee, my first non-ARP premium ship, but things aren't going too well. I'm not sure when I should be firing AP or HE. I feel like the AP is quite terrible, I seem to do around 3k a salvo on average, even to fully broadside cruisers, and I assure you it's not my aim. (Unless I shouldn't be aiming at waterline for the citadel.)The HE is not too good either, mainly because of the long reload. Torpedos I have yet to use, primarily due to not being in range, so not much to say there yet. And then there's the speed. It's basically the same speed as a battleship, and very light armor. I take massive damage from anything, forcing me to keep back. The turrets also seem to have really bad dispersion at the 10km-15km area. I know the ship is decent from what I've seen from other people, but what am I doing wrong? I feel like I have the downsides of a battleship (low speed, long reload) and the downsides of a cruiser (low range, low armor, low damage per shell) with the benefits of neither. Plus only 6 main guns.... Any suggestions? I really want to like this ship...

 

[Sharkbait_416]

Use AP, play it like a very fragile cruiser. Ambush tactics work best on cruisers. Torpedoes account for most damage when I play Spee. Do not engage battleships at long range, you will lose everytime. If you can get in and torp it, you may have a chance.

[Mizzerys_Fate]

Play it 10 to 15 km out.

Support cruiser.

End game you can close to use torps.

Dispersion on the turrets shells are what affect your aim most.

Last night my 1st 2 salves deleted 2 ships. A dd from 12 km 10k damage and a cruiser from 14k out 12k dam 2 citadel.

Then I proceeded to miss next 8 volleys.....

She has decent armor vs dd and under 6 in ca.....

 

[Freecloud]

As others have said, I find that 10-15 km is where the citadels start to appear.  Also, be wary about going broadside...and use AP as much as possible.  This ship really excels at AP. 

[TurboT]

It must be just me, but I find the guns terrible on that thing. It confuses me because I love the Scharn, and the guns by spec (other than range) seem better on the Spee, however, I do nothing but get crappy hits out of them.  

[DanielLeary]

It must be just me, but I find the guns terrible on that thing. It confuses me because I love the Scharn, and the guns by spec (other than range) seem better on the Spee, however, I do nothing but get crappy hits out of them.  

 

While the shells (on the Graf Spee) do more max AP damage than the Scharnhorst, the shells (on the Graf Spee) uses a lighter shell than the Scharnhorst.  While this allows the muzzle velocity on the Graf Spee's shorter guns (52.5 caliber on the Graf Spee vs 54 caliber on the Scharnhorst) to be higher, this will lead to issues penetrating armor at range due to the loss of speed due to air resistance.  If you look at the data on Navweaps.com for the 2 guns, you will notice that at 5 km, the Graf Spee's shells have slowed down enough that the Scharnhorst's shells are actually faster.

[ReddNekk]

The Spee is a lot tougher than you might think. I've survived beatings with that ship that would've killed damn near any other Cruiser I've played. Like on my Scharnhorst, I use HE on targets beyond 10K. At under 10K, the AP on both ships is murder.

 

The Spee does seem to catch on fire pretty easily though.

 

[Herr_Reitz]

Use AP, play it like a very fragile cruiser. Ambush tactics work best on cruisers. Torpedoes account for most damage when I play Spee. Do not engage battleships at long range, you will lose everytime. If you can get in and torp it, you may have a chance.

 

Let me suggest a modification to this advice... Do not engage battleships at long range <unless they are distracted and showing their broadside>.... you will often citadel them with the AP. Just remember for the most part, range lowers the penetration of a round... 

 

I use HE on DDs and sometimes, cruisers. Take her to coop for a dozen matches or even a hundred. Pound her against the reds, learn how she handles, how her turrets turn, focus on using her the way she needs to be played - not how you want to play her. 

 

Good luck! 

[HMCS_Devilfish]

Only fire AP when Broadside at 8k or less if fired at a angled ship it will bounce, or do minimal damage slightly better results for head or stern on but best to fire HE more damage and possibly a fire

[TenguBlade]

The philosophies of Scharnhorst when it comes to ammo choice can largely be applied to Spee without many compatibility issues.

 

Remember that at T6, only T8 CAs will be able to bounce your 11" shells.  AP a cruiser, all the time.  You never know when you might get a godlike RNG roll and score all 6 hits as normal pens - which is still almost 17k damage.

 

Give DDs AP at close range, especially if they're bow-oning.  A single 11" normal pens will tear off almost 20% of a Farragut's HP.  HE should be used when they're at longer ranges, though I typically only switch if I know I'm not going to fire at something else that would be better dealt with using AP.

 

Against BBs, always use HE if they're not broadsiding and burning; however, if both conditions apply, you can get upper-4-digit salvos off of BBs with AP.  At close range (about 7km), your guns will have enough penetration to start farming citadels off broadside IJN BBs (especially broadside Kongos and, should you get close enough, Amagis), and as I said before, even if it's 6 normal-pens, that hurts a ton, even to a BB.  Of course, torpedoes should still be your primary weapon against BBs, because unlike Scharnhorst, Graf Spee doesn't have the armor to duel BBs, and while she has better maneuverability, she's also rather slow for a CA.  I've gotten a decent number of bounces, but that has more to do with potatoism than the ship; your bow is only 19mm of armor, so every BB lolpens you.