New premium IJN Mutsu

[Kaptain_Konrad]

Any information on this besides a t6 Nagato with stock hull? Someone mentioned she had torps. 

[Terrible_Turtle]

Supposedly, yes. However they have very limited firing arcs meaning you have to be broadside to launch them. Definitely would be useful in close encounters.

[Midnitewolf]

Also it only looks like there might be two tubes per side though I forget where I read that.  However that isn't the big selling point of this ship, instead it is the 8 x 16 inch guns at Tier 6 which gives it the most powerful guns on any Tier 6 BB.

[LittleWhiteMouse]

Any information on this besides a t6 Nagato with stock hull? Someone mentioned she had torps. 

 

She hasn't been released yet.  You can expect a whole swathe of reviews as she gets closer to hitting live.

[Kaptain_Konrad]

 

She hasn't been released yet.  You can expect a whole swathe of reviews as she gets closer to hitting live.

Cool, I liked the Nagato and it's where I found my love of secondaries (before any KM BB's mind you).

[YamatoA150]

As leaked, she is basically somewhere between Nagato 1920 and her Nagato 1934 refit, still in her dreadnought state.  Relatively thin armor included, but with "fixed" broadside torpedo mounts as her big gimmick (it was originally Nagato Hull [A], removed and remade into a quick Premium and downtiered by 1).

 

*****  The majority that actually wanted Mutsu 1943 iteration at T7 (better RoF but practically no AA), and Yamashiro 1944 iteration at T6 (more AA, but 4 aft-facing turrets, making offensives a bit tougher).

 

Honestly, fixed broadside torpedoes should have been Hood's little gimmick.

 

Moderated by Volier_Zcit

[iotimoline]

A T7 Nagato with the B hull, pagoda mast, etc would have been extremely tempting; the Nagato is a fun ship and I'd have seriously considered a premium version.

 

One that's got the crappy stock stats, slower engine, ugly unrefitted upperworks etc is not going to make me purchase, ever.  Being a tier lower is irrelevant.

[Skye_Hino]

[HazeGrayUnderway]

If the 16" guns / shells don't behave like the upgraded Nagato's then it's irrelevant.

[StoptheViolins]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Mutsu

 

And it's a t6?  It's a hull B Nagato isn't it?

[YamatoA150]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Mutsu

 

And it's a t6?  It's a hull B Nagato isn't it?

 

No.  Mutsu as she is currently is Hull [A]+ Nagato.  The dreadnought hull (that 99% of the playerbase hates except for hardcore dreadnought fans), with some minor upgrades.  At T6.

 

The current Hull Nagato is basically Mutsu 1943 in everything but turret armor (Mutsu was generally listed with having thicker front turret armor, but thinner aft and side turret armor), RoF (25-28s in ideal conditions, when she was a trainer ship, IIRC), and a few design element differences that were present between Nagato and Mutsu.

 

Cloning ships isn't a problem, but cloning the much-hated Hull [A]s of Nagato and Amagi instead of the hulls players actually wanted, Hull [C] Fuso (as Yamshiro) and Hull Nagato (as Mutsu), was a crappy move.  If they wanted to market IJN dreadnought hulls, do it after giving us the actual ships the majority of the IJN players have long been requesting.

 

I was willing to put down for Yamashiro (1944) and Mutsu (1943), but not some crappy dreadnought Mutsu and dreadnought Amagi (named Ashitaka at T7), with some pointless "cit me here" broadside torpedo launchers.

[RevolutionBlues]

I have to be honest here.. I know Mutsu is going to be terrible, I know I will probably hate it. But if the price is as reasonable as Dunkerque I will probably pick it up because torpedoes on battleships are my weakness. 

[YamatoA150]

I have to be honest here.. I know Mutsu is going to be terrible, I know I will probably hate it. But if the price is as reasonable as Dunkerque I will probably pick it up because torpedoes on battleships are my weakness. 

 

Even ones that blatantly telegraph you're going to attempt to torp someone?  Because Mutsu's fixed torps require baring the broadside, unlike the torpedo launchers on Tirpitz/Scharn/Gneis which have a wide enough angle to fire them at.

 

You also only get 2 shots, IIRC.  One per tube, and Mutsu had about 2 per side.

[RevolutionBlues]

 

Even ones that blatantly telegraph you're going to attempt to torp someone?  Because Mutsu's fixed torps require baring the broadside, unlike the torpedo launchers on Tirpitz/Scharn/Gneis which have a wide enough angle to fire them at.

 

You also only get 2 shots, IIRC.  One per tube, and Mutsu had about 2 per side.

 

I know they're going to be virtually useless, but that still probably won't stop me. I just can't help myself. 

[YamatoA150]

I know they're going to be virtually useless, but that still probably won't stop me. I just can't help myself. 

 

Just making sure of your resolve.  Because for sure those are going to cause a new layer of ridiculous whining over how "ineffective" they are, when they actually are deliberately ineffective in the first place.

[Magic_Fighting_Tuna]

 

I know they're going to be virtually useless, but that still probably won't stop me. I just can't help myself.

 

You could really use them to mess with people during ramming sections. You know the old saying, Damn the torpedo's full speed ahead.

[OOM911]

I can see why they did It though.... If you want to put out something unique it tends to be better to release something that plays differently... rather then something with some tweaks....

 

Overlooking the torps which are mostly for self defense....

She's gonna have the BIGGEST guns at tier 6, and she's never gonna see tier 9's

 

They seem to be going the brawling route with this one as well.

2 more secondaries then the current A hull, heavy armor, big guns... torps (Defence weapon.)

 

As far as I can see there basically making her for brawls that tend to happen at tier 6 most of the time...

 

[Magic_Fighting_Tuna]

Also the Mutsu Exploded because that crew member dropped or banged a shell which in turn denoted the magazine. At the time Nagato and Mutsu had a type of shell aboard that was quite volatile and reacted violently to physical abuse. That's why after the investigation they IJN removed the shells from service.

[Cruiser_YahagiKai]

Yamato, you sure do say a lot with seemingly absolute certainty despite not being a supertester, even when her final stats haven't been released and she's still in testing for balancing. You may be reading a little too much TAP, there.

 

Also, can you please not talk as if you're speaking for everyone? Your personal opinion and leak reading is fine as you're very much entitled to them, but please don't go spouting off "the players, the players" as if you're a community representative. The thread's purpose is to ask when she'll be released, because contrary to what you seem to think, some people actually really want her even as she's going to be represented.

[RevolutionBlues]

Yamato, you sure do say a lot with seemingly absolute certainty despite not being a supertester, even when her final stats haven't been released and she's still in testing for balancing. You may be reading a little too much TAP, there.

 

Also, can you please not talk as if you're speaking for everyone? Your personal opinion and leak reading is fine as you're very much entitled to them, but please don't go spouting off "the players, the players" as if you're a community representative. The thread's purpose is to ask when she'll be released, because contrary to what you seem to think, some people actually really want her even as she's going to be represented.

 

Some people likely want her under the mistaken impression that she won't be a steaming pile of garbage, especially in the current T6 meta of "Lol enjoy your endless T8 matches."

[Francois424]

Also some of us are still salty about not having a good Premium IJN BB yet.   I know it's not stellar for USN either but Texas and Arizona are both pretty good in their own right (or where before the MM change screw-up).

 -- Ishizuchi isn't agile enough at tier 4 to offset her weak bellies, nor strong enough to tank anything.  She plays more like a Cruiser.

 -- Mikasa just doesn't cut it in PvP, her secondaries have too short a range and simply cannot offset her poor speed and lol-dispersion on her main guns.  Historically she started firing secondaries around 5-6km.

What's left for IJN BBs?  Nothing.

 

Just having a fully upgraded Nagato with less AA and more RPM would've been nice.  Heck anything T7-8 that handles properly with decent protection would do fine.

Still waiting.  At this rate we'll have the Hood premium for the RN before IJN gets a good premium BB.

 

My 2 cents.

PS: Still hoping for the new premium Mutsu to be good, but at tier 6... she'd have to be WarSpite/NewMex level at least.

[YamatoA150]

Yamato, you sure do say a lot with seemingly absolute certainty despite not being a supertester, even when her final stats haven't been released and she's still in testing for balancing. You may be reading a little too much TAP, there.

 

Also, can you please not talk as if you're speaking for everyone? Your personal opinion and leak reading is fine as you're very much entitled to them, but please don't go spouting off "the players, the players" as if you're a community representative. The thread's purpose is to ask when she'll be released, because contrary to what you seem to think, some people actually really want her even as she's going to be represented.

 

There is no certainty in my posts; as we're discussing leaked ships as they were leaked.  Of course there's a slim possibility of changes being made.  There's places other than TAP where some leaks can fall though too.

 

However, I would like to point out the fact that in most cases, the leaked ships come as they were leaked, with little to no changes.  Definitely none of them with actual hull changes either.

 

I will admit, that while I did and do come off as aggressive, it is due to the fact that I have been patiently waiting for one, ONE decent IJN Premium battleship.  I have been patient since WG first told us way back in 2015 that they would give the IJN playerbase an IJN Premium BB or CA after neglecting those players for so long, and that even though they would probably be clones, it'd be similar to Texas/NY or Tirpitz/Bismarck.  And they repeated that promise in 2016.

 

But here we are, with crappy clones of [A] Hulls downgraded a tier with some pointless gimmick that would have been better served for a Premium Hood.  Unlike the USN players, I would not have complained if it was mainly T5, T6, or even T7 clones, in the form of the other 3 Kongou sisters, Yamshiro, or Mutsu, as long as it was in their best final or near-final outfits, similar to Texas/NY or Tirpitz/Bismarck or even Eugen/Hipper.

 

Clearly, it is too hard for WG to actually give us that ONE decent IJN battleship (or heck, even another cruiser) that they have been repeatedly trying to assure us with.

 

ONE that isn't a relative PoS like Ishizuchi, being a dreadnought hull outclassed by upgraded hulls at that tier or even one below.

ONE that isn't extremely gimmicky by being some dreadnought/early refit hull, just with an extra gimmick (which Ishizuchi also had).

ONE that doesn't have to be directly superior to their line counterpart, such as Tirpitz and Eugen compared to Bismarck and Hipper, but are close enough to be considered clone hulls, at the same tier, with relatively similar performance.

ONE that can actually be used to train IJN BB captains on, moreso now that the upcoming Captain skill changes force distinctly different builds by class and Captain instead of enough similarities to cross-train on, such as a BB or DD captain on an Atago in the live server.

 

Currently, the only one that might rectify that is Musashi, but who knows if WG will actually follow though with releasing her, much less with a minor extra such as more range on her secondaries, to make up for the fact she has far less than Yamato.

 

I would have gladly paid for the top overpriced bundles on a proper Yamashiro and Mutsu, but not for some dreadnought/early war refit which have clear and blatantly obvious gimmicks to try and sell them, such as 16" guns at T6, or "fixed torpedo tubes".  For all that the USN players complain about their T7s being gimmicky, at least all of them, while gimmicky, have some actual utility.  Atlanta with her Radar, infinite AADF, and unholy RoF.  Indianapolis with Radar and reasonable concealment/armor vs her line peer Pensa.  Saipan that many insist is an IJN CV in disguise.  What does the IJN get after waiting so long?  Another gimmicky battleship in a similar vein as Mikasa and Ishizuchi, but at higher tiers.  Oh, and a destroyer too, after completing a lengthy Campaign (which isn't a problem, and the ship is decent), but by the way, they're also removing 3 Premium Destroyers.

 

So what are we left with?  Only Atago.  Which has been in-game since OBT.

 

Really, what is so hard about cloning Hull Nagato, changing the mast some, and making her into Mutsu proper?  AA too weak?  So what?  Arizona has pathetic AA, but she does well being slightly better at anti-ship combat.  Mutsu's case is easier; hull armor is practically identical, and only turret armor is slightly different.  Just go with her fast RoF from ideal conditions and done, or if WG wanted to make her a bit more unique, buff her top speed by a half knot and add some additional extra somewhere else, either to camouflage bonuses or early module access or better accuracy.  That's a far more reasonable gimmick.

 

Same goes for Yamashiro.  Clone Hull [C] Fuso, normalize the mast and adjust some of the model, and just add AA.  Practically same thing done to NY and Texas.

 

At any rate, thinking that 16" guns at T6 will be a game changer is unrealistic.  They will likely have poor characteristics, much closer to the 15" used by Warspite/Bayern, or some other nerfs on the ship.

 

So you will just have to either forgive me or ignore me for the extreme amount of frustration I have over the fact that the IJN hasn't gotten anything decent outside of destroyers for the better part of almost two years.  I'm not asking for an unnerfed Yamato at T5 w/ MM allowing her to pair in T1-10 matches, or Design A150 at T8 here, to be the end-all Premium of Premiums.  Just at least ONE solid Premium BB (or cruiser) that can do the job right.  Save the dreadnought hulls and early refit hulls for a time when they can start releasing ships with year numbers in their names.

[KnightFandragon]

I have to be honest here.. I know Mutsu is going to be terrible, I know I will probably hate it. But if the price is as reasonable as Dunkerque I will probably pick it up because torpedoes on battleships are my weakness. 

 

Yes, because we need more torpedo spam in this game.....

 

When can the USN get their ship mounted torps?

[RevolutionBlues]

 

Yes, because we need more torpedo spam in this game.....

 

When can the USN get their ship mounted torps?

 

WASD does a pretty good job of countering torps. (Especially when you can see clear as day that the ship is about to drop them) I can attest to that from both ends.

[KnightFandragon]

 

WASD does a pretty good job of countering torps. (Especially when you can see clear as day that the ship is about to drop them) I can attest to that from both ends.

 

Yeah, I have got the WASD down and in coops, have dodged a number of torps, gotten the AI to fire and watched as the torps fly harmlessly by, it doensnt make it any less fun when your T8 cruisers fly in, torp everytthing and the game is over in seconds.  same deal at any tier when you get hordes of torp ships......game ends in a matter of minutes, and its like, well, that was a waste of everything...

 

Just sayin, do we really need torps on another BB?  Torps should be limited to DDs and Cruisers.....and be the most powerful on DDs.