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Arbinshire

PSA: Please stop playing USN CVs

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I may be writing this on tilt, so I'm sorry in advance, but I am seriously getting tired of losing games because of Essex vs Taiho, or Midway vs Hakuryu. Or Bogue vs Zuiho. Or Ranger vs Zuiho. This CV imbalance is absolutely disgusting, being forced into an uphill battle from the very start due to having no control of the skies due to "national flavor" is absurd.

 

Being able to call a match result 8/10 times because they have an IJN carrier and we don't just makes me sad.

 

 

Edited by SeraphicRadiance
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This is not how a PSA works. Also, it's more that I wish people would stop playing strike CV's than anything else. American Dive bombers do so much damage that sacrificing all your fighters just to get some torp bombers doesn't seem worth it at all.

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This is not how a PSA works. Also, it's more that I wish people would stop playing strike CV's than anything else. American Dive bombers do so much damage that sacrificing all your fighters just to get some torp bombers doesn't seem worth it at all.

 

Your pedantry is appreciated.

 

The issue is, IJN CVs give up virtually nothing to run strike, as they still have use of fighters that you can use to strafe or sac in order to get your bombers through to a vulnerable target. Watching your team's DDs get cross dropped by 3 torpedo squads and killed/almost killed as your own team's fighters get tied up time and time again gets old.

Edited by SeraphicRadiance

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This is not how a PSA works. Also, it's more that I wish people would stop playing strike CV's than anything else. American Dive bombers do so much damage that sacrificing all your fighters just to get some torp bombers doesn't seem worth it at all.

 

Actually the USN DB's are unreliable as damage. I use torpedo bomber damage as an indicator. 
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Well like it or not, some people are really fans of USN Carriers and for many, their choice for playing USN is a practical one. IJN CV's are very hard to manage because of their high number of plane squadrons. Mastering them is incredibly difficult, so much so that even someone like myself with a blue and purple sig cannot wield an IJN CV effectively. Its just that USN Carriers also have the disadvantage of having the forced specialized load outs gimping the hell out of them

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Actually the USN DB's are unreliable as damage. I use torpedo bomber damage as an indicator. 

 

They're relatively reliable when targeting battleships if you can read the battle and attack the right target at the right time, but beyond that you're throwing dice if you want to try to strike out destroyers or cruisers.

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This is not how a PSA works. Also, it's more that I wish people would stop playing strike CV's than anything else. American Dive bombers do so much damage that sacrificing all your fighters just to get some torp bombers doesn't seem worth it at all.

 

Thing is that IJN fighters are garbage. An Air superiority loadout makes no sense if you can't win an 8 vs 6 dogfight with the help of a Fiji. btw I have the eight planes.

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Well like it or not, some people are really fans of USN Carriers and for many, their choice for playing USN is a practical one. IJN CV's are very hard to manage because of their high number of plane squadrons. Mastering them is incredibly difficult, so much so that even someone like myself with a blue and purple sig cannot wield an IJN CV effectively. Its just that USN Carriers also have the disadvantage of having the forced specialized load outs gimping the hell out of them

 

It could also be that those dedicated enough to playing CVs know which lines are better if you master CV play, so you have a higher chance of running into someone incredibly skilled when using an IJN CV as opposed to skilled players in a USN CV.

 

The IJN line lets you better make use of whatever abilities you have.

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Thing is that IJN fighters are garbage. An Air superiority loadout makes no sense if you can't win an 8 vs 6 dogfight with the help of a Fiji. btw I have the eight planes.

 

You won't win in a straight up fight, but with proper micromanagement you can sac and strafe to achieve your objective. You don't have to kill the enemy fighters every time, just tie them up to get your bombers through.

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It could also be that those dedicated enough to playing CVs know which lines are better if you master CV play, so you have a higher chance of running into someone incredibly skilled when using an IJN CV as opposed to skilled players in a USN CV.

 

The IJN line lets you better make use of whatever abilities you have.

 

Your point also makes sense for a USN Strike player, as I can do really well in my lexington against a Shokaku. 

 

It's not the line but how skilled the players are, I think its more that casual players prefer to play the USN line as its squads are more versatile, but there are good USN Strike players out there and they can do really well even with a strike package 

Edited by devastator5000

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They're relatively reliable when targeting battleships if you can read the battle and attack the right target at the right time, but beyond that you're throwing dice if you want to try to strike out destroyers or cruisers.

 

Which is the problem. In the NA server, you're not just taking on battleships. Sometimes the damage dealt against battleships are unrealible sometimes

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It'd be nice if players stopped playing Air Superiority USN CVs; it makes one-sided annihilation by IJN CVs much, much easier.  Especially at T4-5, where I'm still getting the hang of IJN CVs.

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Your point also makes sense for a USN Strike player, as I can do really well in my lexington against a Shokaku. 

 

It's not the line but how skilled the players are, I think its more that casual players prefer to play the USN line as its squads are more versatile, but there are good USN Strike players out there and they can do really well even with a strike package 

 

They're not more versatile, they're more straightforward.

 

The thing is, the moment you're matched against a Shokaku even close to your ability, you're in for a very hard time. You can't stop his bombers but he has fighters to stop yours, while still having a potent strike loadout.

 

I wasn't afraid of strike Lexingtons in my Hiryu, even before CV matchmaking got changed.

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This is not how a PSA works. Also, it's more that I wish people would stop playing strike CV's than anything else. American Dive bombers do so much damage that sacrificing all your fighters just to get some torp bombers doesn't seem worth it at all.

Those bombers have such bad accuracy can't reliably hit anything smaller than a high-tier battleship reliably, and even then with only one bomb.  The only reason Saipan's bombers are such cancer is because there's more of them and they have the Ranger's DB drop circle, not the standard circle for American DBs carrying the 1000lb bombs.

 

Meanwhile IJN CVs have no issue with plopping 4 bombs on a CA and even a DD at those tiers, and the torpedo bomber crossdrop becomes absolutely unavoidable for any ship and fatal from full HP for any non-BB once you get to Taiho and have 3 squads to pin them down with anvil, hammer, and an even larger hammer.

I may be writing this on tilt, so I'm sorry in advance, but I am seriously getting tired of losing games because of Essex vs Taiho, or Midway vs Hakuryu. Or Bogue vs Zuiho. Or Ranger vs Zuiho. This CV imbalance is absolutely disgusting, being forced into an uphill battle from the very start due to having no control of the skies due to "national flavor" is absurd.

 

Being able to call a match result 8/10 times because they have an IJN carrier and we don't just makes me sad.

Until T8 USN CVs can compete with the IJN ones.  What really makes them fall behind at those tiers is the huge DB drop circle (a price to pay for an increase in strike power whereas the IJN pays nothing for their increases at T9) and the introduction of DF, which removes the prospect of a snipe completely, a threat that usually causes fighter-carrying CVs to be more cautious with their fighters.

Edited by TenguBlade

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They're not more versatile, they're more straightforward.

 

The thing is, the moment you're matched against a Shokaku even close to your ability, you're in for a very hard time. You can't stop his bombers but he has fighters to stop yours, while still having a potent strike loadout.

 

I wasn't afraid of strike Lexingtons in my Hiryu, even before CV matchmaking got changed.

 

I think my meaning was twisted when I said versatile I meant that the squads stay alive longer (but RNG never guarantees it).

 

And I will admit a Shokaku's fighters can be a hindrance, but even then all you have to do is adapt and stay quick on your feet attacking in one area and then shifting to another a second later as long as the enemy CV can't reliably place his fighters you can move with more freedom. 

 

 

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Your point also makes sense for a USN Strike player, as I can do really well in my lexington against a Shokaku. 

 

It's not the line but how skilled the players are, I think its more that casual players prefer to play the USN line as its squads are more versatile, but there are good USN Strike players out there and they can do really well even with a strike package 

 

You can put up good damage in a USN strike loadout, yes.  But all of the DDs on your team will hate you as the enemy's fighters camp them uncontested.

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Your pedantry is appreciated.

 

The issue is, IJN CVs give up virtually nothing to run strike, as they still have use of fighters that you can use to strafe or sac in order to get your bombers through to a vulnerable target. Watching your team's DDs get cross dropped by 3 torpedo squads and killed/almost killed as your own team's fighters get tied up time and time again gets old.

 

Never heard any one else use the word. :hiding:

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Actually the USN DB's are unreliable as damage. I use torpedo bomber damage as an indicator. 

 

Yeah, even with manual drops with good accuracy, most of the bombs STILL miss, even on targets as big as a Yamato or a Kurfurst and you do piddling damage. The best I hope for in my Essex is that I at least set a fire.

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I think my meaning was twisted when I said versatile I meant that the squads stay alive longer (but RNG never guarantees it).

 

And I will admit a Shokaku's fighters can be a hindrance, but even then all you have to do is adapt and stay quick on your feet attacking in one area and then shifting to another a second later as long as the enemy CV can't reliably place his fighters you can move with more freedom. 

 

 

 

But you're still neglecting the fact that he has free reign to attack your destroyers and out of position BBs. You have to avoid his fighters, while he doesn't have to worry about anything but AA, and that is a tremendous disadvantage, especially if he knows which areas of the battlefield are most vulnerable to your planes.

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It could also be that those dedicated enough to playing CVs know which lines are better if you master CV play, so you have a higher chance of running into someone incredibly skilled when using an IJN CV as opposed to skilled players in a USN CV.

 

The IJN line lets you better make use of whatever abilities you have.

 

Thats not really the point i was trying to make. The fact is, the skill floor for IJN CV's is a lot higher than USN, especially at the starting tiers.

 

Take T4 for example. if you have two noob CV players, with neither really knowing how to use strafe, a langly will beat the crap out of a hosho in the air because of the fighter advantage and Langly's strike aircraft are just as capable of inflicting a lot of damage as hosho. And its also telling that langly is the only line USN CV with over a 50% winrate. in fact i would say the only reason hosho has a significant lead on this server is the amount of seal clubbers present playing hosho, where as fewer people seal club in Langley. But on the other servers, langly and Hosho both are very close in terms of win rate. Really langly's only problem has nothing to do with her loadout at all. her problem is her ridiculously slow speed and higher detection making her ridiculously vulnerable to interception from destroyers. And then for the IJN CV players that get past Hosho, they next have to put up with facing Bouge's all the time. And while Bouge is not exactly a game winning ship, she is immensely frustrating for a Zuiho to face. So yes Bouge's loadout is still crap, but she is very good at making a Zuiho's game pretty miserable too. And then there is independence. Again, Ryujo struggles against Indy in air to air combat, because if Ryujo wants to be good at strike, she will only get one fighter squadron. Conversely Indy has a very good stock loadout, except for one problem, and that is a shortage of planes. The USN loadout disadvantage is really only strong at T7+ and with Bouge. Indy doesn't have a loadout problem, she just doesn't have enough planes to deal with T6 AA (Cleveland being at T6 does not help). That's her problem. But in the absence of strong AA, by far indy is the easier carrier to play. So with the IJN at a major fighter Disadvantage at t4-6, the IJN CV player has to learn fast and has to get good very quickly, otherwise that is going to be a long and painful grind. So yes a skilled player can get more out of an IJN CV's, IJN CV's do have a higher skill floor that forces their players to be better because they are so much harder to play, and a noob CV player is going to be going through hell at the low tiers. Especially now with the high frequency of lower tier seal clubber CV players, some of whom are even running 15 point captains.

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This is one of the most baffling things about this game. I still can't wrap my head around it. IJN CVs are CLEARLY superior to the USN ones. For every other ship and class, you can argue that there is some combination of 'meta' that makes any given ship better or worse compared to the total field of ships. But because matchmaking always pits CVs of equal tier head to head, it's blindingly obvious to me that the IJN carrier win rate at each tier means that their carriers are superior to their US counterparts. "Why" in this case doesn't matter given the statistical evidence. 

 

It's the best evidence I've seen yet that the average player doesn't play this game to win, but for reasons of nostalgia, sheer boredom, or something else I don't understand. 

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