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Mutsu, when?

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Have Wargaming mentioned anything?  I keep throwing money at my screen, but shes still not in my port.

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Wow, I think your the first person I have heard being excited for the Mutsu. I don't think anything has been mentioned on a release date, in fact, I am not sure if she has even been officially announced/confirmed. The only thing I saw on the Mustsu was from The Armored Patrol.

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I know it's in testing (or so I was told) but I'm not sure if it's even on Public Test yet. Might only be tested internally right now. 

 

Typically a premium release works like this:
Internal test server
Public test server
Supertester access on live server

On sale in store

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Wow, I think your the first person I have heard being excited for the Mutsu. I don't think anything has been mentioned on a release date, in fact, I am not sure if she has even been officially announced/confirmed. The only thing I saw on the Mustsu was from The Armored Patrol.

 

I'm looking forward to her. I'll take any premium IJN BB that's higher tier than what we have. I'd /rather/ have a premium IJN BB at Tier 8 though... 

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Wow, I think your the first person I have heard being excited for the Mutsu. I don't think anything has been mentioned on a release date, in fact, I am not sure if she has even been officially announced/confirmed. The only thing I saw on the Mustsu was from The Armored Patrol.

 

There are official screens from WG of the ship.

 

But, when the CCs release their reviews, expect it soon.

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I'm also eagerly awaiting her arrival. However, I can't promise I'll purchase her until I see some in game footage. I am hopeful though she'll be worth it.

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I'm also eagerly awaiting her arrival. However, I can't promise I'll purchase her until I see some in game footage. I am hopeful though she'll be worth it.

 

A BB with torps at that low of a tier is going to be interesting, even if the arcs aren't very good. The big down side though is that unless they have good range (doubtful) it'll be hard to use them. Tirpitz has so much torp success because bow-on she's almost impossible to take out before she gets to you. An A-Hull Nagato-class will not be so lucky. 

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I'm also eagerly awaiting her arrival. However, I can't promise I'll purchase her until I see some in game footage. I am hopeful though she'll be worth it.

 

Thus far, as leaked:

  • A fusion of Nagato 1920 with the Nagato 1934 refit, set at T6.
  • Above-water fixed roadside torpedoes with very limited arcs, requires baring full broadside to use.
  • Guns that have trouble penning other fully upgraded battleships in the tier brackets despite being 16".
  • Armor that is readily penned through by 14" and 15".

 

She's a straight up "F- YOU!" to the majority of the IJN playerbase, who wanted Mutsu 1943 at T7, as well as those who wanted Yamashiro 1944 at T6.  And the IJN playerbase in general who just wanted a solid T6+ Premium IJN BB.

 

Then we're also getting an equally crappy "dreadnought" hull Ashitaka (Hull [A] Amagi, just polished to be a little less of a PoS, set at T7).

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A BB with torps at that low of a tier is going to be interesting, even if the arcs aren't very good. The big down side though is that unless they have good range (doubtful) it'll be hard to use them. Tirpitz has so much torp success because bow-on she's almost impossible to take out before she gets to you. An A-Hull Nagato-class will not be so lucky. 

It just depends on her MM and how much they buff or debuff certain things about her. I cant imagine they're going to leave everything literally stock hull because that would be horrible. I suppose we'll see

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Yeah, I'm pretty excited for her as well. Tier 6 firing shells with an accuracy and penetration comparable to Warspite, equipped with torpedoes. I also hear she's actually looking pretty good from some of my ST friends, but they're obviously pretty hush hush about exact details. 

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I'm kinda looking forward to her, I don't play Japanese ships much and a trainer for that nation would be really good for me 

Edited by the_majestic_eagle

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Have Wargaming mentioned anything?  I keep throwing money at my screen, but shes still not in my port.

 

In the patch notes today they say she is being tested (supertesters) so it should be pretty soon.

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Of course, it's still a crappy T6.  But then, expecting anything else this late in the stage of development is like expecting Krasny Krym to be downtiered or rebalanced to be sufficiently competitive.

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Personally i'd save my money. A stock A hull Nagato makes for a horrible captain trainer, and a joke.

 

That's why they put it at tier 6. Also has torpedoes.

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That's why they put it at tier 6. Also has torpedoes.

With a 20-degree neutral traverse that virtually requires broadsiding to use them.  Mutsu will be like Bayern: players have to abuse the lolpen mechanics to even get damage in the first place because of how bad the stock shells are.  But Bayern has the advantage of not being citadeled by cruisers.

Edited by TenguBlade

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With a 20-degree neutral traverse that virtually requires broadsiding to use them.  Mutsu will be like Bayern: players have to abuse the lolpen mechanics to even get damage in the first place because of how bad the stock shells are.  But Bayern has the advantage of not being citadeled by cruisers.

 

Well, I didn't say they were good torpedoes. I'd probably use them for traps or in close YOLO passes. Is the ship going to be the next big thing in WoWS? No, definitely not, but I think it will bring a slightly different play style and a generally enjoyable ship to run.

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You use the torpedoes while passing enemy BB at high speed. In this kind of situation the guns are not able to turn fast enough so you are not likely to take a full broadside. Instead you have to turn your guns to 90 degrees in advance before passing, but most players at t6 don't know about this from my own experience.

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Thus far, as leaked:

  • A fusion of Nagato 1920 with the Nagato 1934 refit, set at T6.
  • Above-water fixed roadside torpedoes with very limited arcs, requires baring full broadside to use.
  • Guns that have trouble penning other fully upgraded battleships in the tier brackets despite being 16".
  • Armor that is readily penned through by 14" and 15".

 

She's a straight up "F- YOU!" to the majority of the IJN playerbase, who wanted Mutsu 1943 at T7, as well as those who wanted Yamashiro 1944 at T6.  And the IJN playerbase in general who just wanted a solid T6+ Premium IJN BB.

 

Then we're also getting an equally crappy "dreadnought" hull Ashitaka (Hull [A] Amagi, just polished to be a little less of a PoS, set at T7).

 

The Torpedo part annoys me because the older ships used the Type 6 torpedo which had a gyroscope for the fixed tubes (the same kind that Submarines use). They had the ability to fire at a 40 degree arc once it left the tube which should allow the ships to fire at an 80 degree arc on either side of the ship. I mean, hell, if they are only going to allow it to fire 4 of the total torpedo tubes, they might as well give it it's proper gyro arcs so it can fire at a wide arc like they could historically. So 2 torpedo's per side at 7km range, it needs the gyro to work to at least make it worth while due to the older armor layout with that forward turret citadel location.

 

They also need to just give it the upgraded 16'' shells to deal with the penetration issue. They are already limiting it to a 34 sec reload rate or 1.7RPM, so at least let it be able to punch decently.

 

As for the whole Tier 7 Premium, I would have rather had the Tosa's original hull at tier 7 premium. It actually would have been a really good fit there. The armor would have been a good fit for that tier. It would have weak AA with only 8x 76mm AA guns or the 12cm guns. Yes, I know the wikipedia says 4 of them, but the Tosa that was hauled out to be used as a target had space allocated for 8 total to coincide with concepts and developments from Hosho as well as planned for the No 13/Kii classes.

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As for the whole Tier 7 Premium, I would have rather had the Tosa's original hull at tier 7 premium. It actually would have been a really good fit there. The armor would have been a good fit for that tier. It would have weak AA with only 8x 76mm AA guns or the 12cm guns. Yes, I know the wikipedia says 4 of them, but the Tosa that was hauled out to be used as a target had space allocated for 8 total to coincide with concepts and developments from Hosho as well as planned for the No 13/Kii classes.

 

Only reason I left out Tosa is because she'd be more likely to be part of a second IJN BB line (a "fast line" if you will), trading places with Amagi, and from Amagi, go into Kii at T9 and Number 13 at T10. The Hiraga and Fujimoto Kongou replacements would be more ideal for T8 Premium.  Then at T9; maybe one of the A-140 design concepts (such as 16" gun Yamato or maybe the Nelson-style all-forward main gun variant).

 

 Here's how I'd assume they'd fit:

 

T6 - BB Ise

Since Ise and Hyuuga were mostly improved versions of Fuso and Yamashiro, they should both branch off from Fuso, then give it an original Ise Hull [C] that sees it retain all the AA she had, including the AA rockets, but still in battleship configuration.  She would split off into BBCV Hyuuga, either as a Premium or a middle branch leading into a CV line.

 

T7 Premium - BB-65 "Ishikari", the miniature Yamato (Azumazi did a write up on her using that name)

A superheavy cruiser more along the lines of Scharnhorst and Alaska.  While a late-war design, she could see minor buffs to keep her competitive at the tier, mainly in soft stats such as RoF, armor, or addition of short-range AA mounts.

 

T7 - Probably one of the other upgrade concepts, or failing that, a mixture of different concepts.  I'm partial to an 8x Kongou-successor.  BB-65 would work, if WG decides to backtrack on their caliber progression statements.  Would make the second line a bit more of a "fast battleship/battlecruiser" line.

 

T8 - Tosa

As it was a battleship version of Amagi rather than a battlecruiser.  She would be swapped with Amagi in the lines, so that Tosa comes after Nagato, and Amagi being the start of the "faster battleship/battlecruiser" segment.  A fictional refit can see slight buffs to Tosa or [C] hull's main guns, outfitted Izumo's 16" guns (gun and shell performance only; not traverse), with stock being the standard Nagato/Amagi 16" guns as she was designed with.  While Amagi brings speed and firepower alongside cruisers, Tosa would trade speed for armor and more staying firepower.

 

T9 - Kii

As Kii was a fast battleship design and could be considered a straight upgrade from Amagi with some minor fictional upgrades on her final hull (mainly armor, secondaries, and AA).  Interestingly, she'd have above-water torpedo launchers (maybe consider having them moved to deck-mounted for greater arcs in a refit hull).  So she'd fit perfectly as an amped up Amagi successor; more HP, better armor, slightly less or same speed (depending on fictional refit), and also using the same 16" as Izumo on her refit (Hull or Hull [C]).  Stock would be the original plan to use the same 16" as Nagato.

 

T10 - Number 13

Another "fast" battleship, but with 18.1" guns (since Japan never produced plain 457mm, only 460mm, and the design had 18" minimum).  Granted, she only has 8x of them.  I'd expect a fictional refit to add more Secondary/DP/AA mounts (potentially removing all the casemate 14cm guns) with Izumo and Yamato level base ranges, and presumably have better main gun traverse due to only being dual instead of triple mounts.  Let's assume Izumo-level traverse w/ standard 30s reload.  This would result in a powerful big-gun striker with good secondary attack power for drive-by shooting or self-defense, while also having some speed to bring the big guns into play sooner (as well as get out of danger faster, or maintain and kite mid-long range combat longer).  Armor-wise, she'd probably be weaker than Yamato in general, with a more conventional box citadel and the usual vulnerabilities to open broadsides (leaving her to more likely face off with 4 guns rather than all 8, like most IJN BBs are prone to do when being focused).  She also was designed with above-water torpedo tubes, but could also possibly get it as deck-mounted instead in a fictional refit design.

 

Other T8 AlternativesBoth versions could potentially use Izumo's 16" in final form.

Hiraga Kongou replacement concept - 10x 410mm design; 2x dual-turrets and 2x triple-turrets.  Think Kongou, but with everything essential crammed towards the center as much as possible in order to maximize protection, while still having relative straight-line speed.  An 8x design could be considered for T7 based on this as well, if other preliminary designs like B-62 aren't sufficient for T7.  It'd be a fast Nagato in that case.

 

Fujimoto Kongou replacement concept - A miniature Yamato; 3x triple-410mm turrets with a blast shield on the bow to protect the secondary guns mounted way forward.  Though one may as well instead use one of the A-140 design concepts for an alternate T9 in that case (one of the designs also being a Yamato w/ 16" but w/o the secondaries in front).

 

 

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Oh I know it's going to be a tier 8 BB, but they removed Amagi's base hull and will remove Tosa's as well for that line due the issues it would have with it's AA guns. Hence why I brought up the base Tosa for the tier 7 premium. Frankly, no one wants a tier 7 Ishizuchi which is what the premium base hull Amagi at tier 7 would be in my opinion.

 

also PS I'm the one that did the write up on the B-65 that you mentioned :)

Edited by Azumazi

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You're right; Tosa's stock hull design would make for a working T7; moreso than Amagi's on the basis of more armor at least.  Preferably with a different name though so that Tosa can exist in the line (given WG's insistence on names only; no year dates in the name).

 

And credited as due.

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The pen is gonna be the biggest problem. BBs are defined by their guns even when they have a gimmick to work with, and we're looking at an IJN Bayern. Hull A Nagato pen is right down there with those trashy 15"/45 LC/1913s. Though...slightly better at range lol.

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