Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
renegadestatuz

Q&A IJN DDs pefrom just fine...

222 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

1,478
[HINON]
Members
7,656 posts
9,539 battles

So according to Octavian's Q&A from today, the IJN DDs perform just fine how they are now and don't need any buffs and will not get any buffs. Also strait from the Q&A, he states that the main reason players do so poorly in them is that because they are playing them wrong by trying to torp spam from max range and they need to stop doing that and play them correctly.https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/5niuro/dev_qa_round_8/

 

I don't even play IJN DDs but from playing against them, even I think they need a few buffs here and there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,287
[WG-CC]
-Members-, Members
9,101 posts
8,050 battles

For example the Detection ranges on the Torpedoes could use some small help. I mean 2.5km is just insane.

  • Cool 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,615
[-K-]
[-K-]
Members
6,121 posts
27,992 battles

While the IJN DD lines still have a couple of stinkers, I didn't feel like they were actually bad in everyday play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
120 posts
2,499 battles

If you don't want to search through reddit:

 

Question:

Hi! I have two questions:

  • Do you plan to buff the most underpreforming IJN DDs? Also the upcoming changes like RDF skill and the removing of stealt fire make them totally unplayable.

Let me explain: The following IJN DDs have the worst win rate, below 50% and damage compared to their tier counterparts: Fubuki ( she has worst stats than old Mutsuki and that DD considered bad...); Kagero; Yuugumo and Shimakaze. I made some screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/Zrres

IJN DDs really need some fix beause they have very few advantages left because either WG nerf them directly, like torpedo detection range or introduce new mechanics which nerf them indirectly like radar, and now the upcoming Radio Position Finding skill will cripple totally the torpedoboat gamestyle. The only really advantage what left for IJN DDs are stealth and Radio Position Finding skill and the planned stealth fire remove will be the last nail into the coffin. So please consider the followings and don't ignore these issues. Because atm it looks like WG is trying to make IJN DD line more and more useless and uncompetitive on purpose.

  • Can you give us a hint when the Haifuri collab starts approx or any info? What we know so far is just a small announcement on the Asian portal from last year, no further official info since then.

Sub_Octavian:

Hello!

Currently there are no plans to buff IJN DDs and no fact that they are/will be unplayable. Typically, when IJN DD player has slightly worse avg.stats, it is because of trying to spam torps from longest distance possible. In the early days, that was a viable and effecient option - not anymore. IJN DDs became more skill-demanding and difficult. We realize that, but we are not inclined to change that.

There is no purpose in doing any line uncompetitive. That's would be very dumb of us. However, making line more demanding is acceptable.

I am sorry that I did not provide the answer you probably was looking for, but there it is.

As for Haifuri, such things are mainly handled by our ASIA colleagues. I don't participate.

Cheers!

 

Or link here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
937
[WOLFB]
Members
3,212 posts

The problem is they changed the play style. So it will take everyone some time to figure out the line. I have gone back to grinding up the line and my IJN gameplay has gotten a lot better 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
725
[NEUTR]
Members
2,207 posts
11,692 battles

So according to Octavian's Q&A from today, the IJN DDs perform just fine how they are now and don't need any buffs and will not get any buffs. Also strait from the Q&A, he states that the main reason players do so poorly in them is that because they are playing them wrong by trying to torp spam from max range and they need to stop doing that and play them correctly.https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/5niuro/dev_qa_round_8/

 

I don't even play IJN DDs but from playing against them, even I think they need a few buffs here and there.

 

This has exactly been my point since release. People are playing IJN DDs WRONG. It is not a spam and pray ship. They are not even smoke, spam, and pray ships.The camo value, the speed, that good angle of torp tubes. All made for in the face torp drops. IJN DDs are also not meant for hunting other DDs. They are single point elimination assassins.

 

People just refuse to accept the fact that IJN DDs are not some max range spammy ships.

 

obligatory, read my guide.

 

 

Edit: The mid tier camo value for IJN DDs is a barricade for performance. Strongly suggest people grinding the IJN DD line save all their exp flags, camo, premium time, for tier 5 IJN DD. Equip all of them and play that tier 5 IJN DD till your captain has concealment expert. Then use that captain to grind through tier 5 - 8. Through 5- 8 put on every thing that adds every little bit to your camo value on your ship, paints, flags, what have you. IJN DD line is not really "newbie" friendly. Why people keep shoe horning IJN DDs into gunboats is beyond my comprehension. Is the bad turret traverse not good enough of a hint for people?

Edited by NeutralState
  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
627
[MAHAN]
Beta Testers
1,605 posts
7,195 battles

Most of them are fine, and some are downright great. Mutsuki still sucks, and I don't think Hatsuharu is that great, but what else is new. It isn't like IJN DDs are the only line that has one or two stinkers. The special types can be tough to use without CE though. I personally do far better in IJN DDs after the rework than before, and I'm far from an amazing DD captain.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
2,589 posts
8,799 battles

The key to playing IJN DDs now is knowing when and how to use your guns to pad your damage without getting blown out of the water. There's 2.5km detection on the 20km torps is there for a reason... They're a poor choice and mostly just an annoyance because you're not going to hit a half baked spud with them when launched from max range. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,053
[SYN]
Members
16,027 posts
12,803 battles

I played the ships.

Hatsuharu needs more gun range. At least 10.5km

Hatsuharu needs torpedo reload booster in another slot. 5s version.

Shiratsuyu is fine.

Akizuki could use slightly better turning radius

 

Fubuki needs better concealment

Akatsuki needs better concealment

Kagero needs more gun range. At least 10.8km.

Kagero needs torpedo reload booster in another slot, even if it is the 30s version.

Yugumo needs torpedo reload booster in another slot. 30s version

Shimakaze needs more gun range and more RoF. At least 11.1km and 10.5 RPM.

 

I didn't play Mutsuki, but I'm 100% certain it's a sack of crapthat requires massive buffs.

Edited by MrDeaf
  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
5,450 posts
21,054 battles

I heard from a little bird on a ship pod cast that one of the problems WG see with destroyers is they are surviving to much in a match.

I kid you not. Destroyers are staying alive to much for their liking. 

I'm not sure If I should be impressed I manage to end a battle with a still floating destroyer or be insulted that a combination of skill and skills keeps me floating. 

The problem with WG is they look at "King Data" and it doesn't seem like "how is it to play with or against" is no where to be found in their "Data" sets. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,546
[BWC]
Beta Testers
3,440 posts
9,986 battles

What I find so puzzling is the same people who are not inclined to change the situation being more challenging for IJN DDs to perform similar to other lines are very inclined to give a skill (Radio Position Finding) to those playing against these ships which is specifically intended to drastically reduce the skill level in the game.

 

In short, they are saying they have no problem making the game difficult for those who play IJN DDs, and making it easy for everyone else.

 

Interesting take on designing a balanced game.

Edited by Jakob_Knight
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11,351
[SALVO]
Members
16,500 posts
10,221 battles

I played Mutsuki, was Ok, she is your regular IJN torpboat. I don't see any need to change.

I'm playing Fubuki, she could use either a concealment or speed boost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
725
[NEUTR]
Members
2,207 posts
11,692 battles

Most of them are fine, and some are downright great. Mutsuki still sucks, and I don't think Hatsuharu is that great, but what else is new. It isn't like IJN DDs are the only line that has one or two stinkers. The special types can be tough to use without CE though. I personally do far better in IJN DDs after the rework than before, and I'm far from an amazing DD captain.

 

OMG you did not just... I'm so triggered by the Mutsuki hate right now... I can't odd...

 

Mutsuki does not suck, just pretend it has no guns and torp only has 3 km range.

Edited by NeutralState

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
254 posts
4,459 battles

 

This has exactly been my point since release. People are playing IJN DDs WRONG. It is not a spam and pray ship. They are not even smoke, spam, and pray ships.The camo value, the speed, that good angle of torp tubes. All made for in the face torp drops. IJN DDs are also not meant for hunting other DDs. They are single point elimination assassins.

 

People just refuse to accept the fact that IJN DDs are not some max range spammy ships.

 

obligatory, read my guide.

 

If the majority of people are playing the ships wrong isn't that a problem? To me it sounds like WG has designed the ships for a counter-intuitive style of play.

 

The fact of the matter is, with the current gunboat meta in the game, not having quick-firing guns in CQC basically makes you food for other DD's and CA's that do have quick firing guns, and at range the slower RoF of IJN guns means you're exposing your self to return fire without a lot benefit. So a logical player is going to say to themselves "Okay I can't compete close-in or at range with my guns, so I'll just stay at range and use my torpedoes". Telling them to close in to use their torpedoes doesn't make a lot  sense, since if they miss their torpedo strike and get spotted, they're left twisting in the wind without a lot of recourse.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,153
[ARGSY]
Members
10,326 posts
16,228 battles

TBH,T8-10 DD play is not easy  and  very tough to survive  at closer range.   too much firepower and accuracy  (and heap will make it worse)       akizuki is fine because you get 12km range with decent dmg and fire.    you still won't do great dmg, but you tend to scare away BBs with your stream of fire.  the stock grind on aki with captain retraining can be tough though.     shiratsuyu is also fine due to its 5sec fast reload/separate booster, making it more usable than yugumo.   

 

 kagero, yugumo and  possibly shima needs some help. kagero and shima definitely could use gun range boost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,179
[SYN]
[SYN]
Beta Testers
2,557 posts
15,233 battles

I played Mutsuki, was Ok, she is your regular IJN torpboat. I don't see any need to change.

I'm playing Fubuki, she could use either a concealment or speed boost.

 

Fubuki and Akatsuki's concealments at their tiers are ridiculously bad. Which promotes torping at max range. Exactly what WG thinks is bad.

 

Also. If "spamming" torps at max range is bad, why are BBs sniping at max range not punished in any sense?

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
557 posts

They are not even smoke, spam, and pray ships.The camo value, the speed, that good angle of torp tubes.

 

Speed? Reallly? IJN dd speeds are among the slowest. Even some cruisers are faster then same tier IJN dd's.

 

One item you forgot to include is that the torp detection range needs to be reduced. It is just plain too easy to torpedo beat IJN torps with their current detection range.

 

Although I will say, I am enjoying my Kamikaze and Kamikaze R very much. IJN dd's the way they were meant to be. Not the current iteration of ships designed for battle ships that like to sail in straight lines.

 

Good luck and fair seas.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
725
[NEUTR]
Members
2,207 posts
11,692 battles

I heard from a little bird on a ship pod cast that one of the problems WG see with destroyers is they are surviving to much in a match.

I kid you not. Destroyers are staying alive to much for their liking. 

I'm not sure If I should be impressed I manage to end a battle with a still floating destroyer or be insulted that a combination of skill and skills keeps me floating. 

The problem with WG is they look at "King Data" and it doesn't seem like "how is it to play with or against" is no where to be found in their "Data" sets. 

 

You are suppose to trade a DD for a BB or cruiser, or even trading a DD for an enemy DD depending on the period in the match.

 

DDs are EXPANDABLE, as long as the trade is favorable to the flow of the match. A suicidal run on a BB and killing it point blank with a full salvo of torps is BENEFICIAL TO YOUR TEAM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
725
[NEUTR]
Members
2,207 posts
11,692 battles

 

If the majority of people are playing the ships wrong isn't that a problem? To me it sounds like WG has designed the ships for a counter-intuitive style of play.

 

The fact of the matter is, with the current gunboat meta in the game, not having quick-firing guns in CQC basically makes you food for other DD's and CA's that do have quick firing guns, and at range the slower RoF of IJN guns means you're exposing your self to return fire without a lot benefit. So a logical player is going to say to themselves "Okay I can't compete close-in or at range with my guns, so I'll just stay at range and use my torpedoes". Telling them to close in to use their torpedoes doesn't make a lot  sense, since if they miss their torpedo strike and get spotted, they're left twisting in the wind without a lot of recourse.

 

No most people just assume since other nation's DDs are gunboats or can be, IJN MUST be gunboats. That is a logical fallacy. Is the [edited]turret turning speed not a hint enough for people? And not to mention the glorious IJN torp speed, with torp acceleration, the torp's speed is just "oh my god i'm orgasming" fast. Gives zero chance even for a cruiser to dodge at close range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
3,000 posts
4,522 battles

IJN DDs wouldn't do that terribly if they kept the HE as it was rather than nerf it for some bizarre reason.

 

The RoF buff was to counteract the straight up torpedo nerf, not to get offset by an HE nerf. As a result the guns are still terrible. Usable but not in any form of prolonged engagement. Aka you will still outright lose to another DD 1 v 1. Rather than other DD vs DD interactions where there are nuances like USN superiority <7km vs VMF superiority >8km. 

 

Rather than getting a gun buff so that the IJN DD can excel somewhere in between those extremes (or "jack of all trades" adaptable in both) instead they remain garbage at engaging other ships, naturally prompting the reliance on torpedoes.

 

Edit: :facepalm: Someone is actually promoting suicide torping?

 

Suicide torping would be valid tactic if:

 

#1 the DD does not get obliterated before getting to undodgeable ranges (3km bow on BB, 2km rest.) Nope just straight up nope

 

#2. DD does not lose over half its health in the attempt. BBs can solo kill cruisers in ideal circumstances without losing half their health. Same for cruisers vs DDs. They can take out 2 ships (each in 1 on 1s) that they counter fairly easily in these ideal situations and survive the encounters. Yet somehow DDs getting crippled (or oftentimes outright dead before even launching) to guarantee a kill vs an out of position BB? Sounds fine somehow. Despite a second attempt vs another being pretty much impossible.

 

 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,478
[HINON]
Members
7,656 posts
9,539 battles

 

If the majority of people are playing the ships wrong isn't that a problem? To me it sounds like WG has designed the ships for a counter-intuitive style of play.

 

The fact of the matter is, with the current gunboat meta in the game, not having quick-firing guns in CQC basically makes you food for other DD's and CA's that do have quick firing guns, and at range the slower RoF of IJN guns means you're exposing your self to return fire without a lot benefit. So a logical player is going to say to themselves "Okay I can't compete close-in or at range with my guns, so I'll just stay at range and use my torpedoes". Telling them to close in to use their torpedoes doesn't make a lot  sense, since if they miss their torpedo strike and get spotted, they're left twisting in the wind without a lot of recourse.

 

Which is why Octavian also said in the Q&A that with the changes to the IJN DDs, they've become a line that is highly skill dependent now and has a high skill ceiling. In other words, basically making it so noobs just don't go hopping into a torp boat and just start spamming torps into a match, making them want to hop out of the line and into another DD line until they're more experienced. Which would also go along with what he's said in other Q&As stating that the devs are NOT HAPPY with the torp boat style DD/meta and they're trying to get players into playing more gunboat DDs and out of the torp spam state of mind. And that all DD lines from now on would put less focus on torps and more on guns, which is exactly what they did with their newest line the German DDs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,324
[NERO]
Members
3,630 posts

 

This has exactly been my point since release. People are playing IJN DDs WRONG. It is not a spam and pray ship. They are not even smoke, spam, and pray ships.The camo value, the speed, that good angle of torp tubes. All made for in the face torp drops. IJN DDs are also not meant for hunting other DDs. They are single point elimination assassins.

 

People just refuse to accept the fact that IJN DDs are not some max range spammy ships.

 

obligatory, read my guide.

 

This ^

 

I've always found my best success with them by using the concealment to get into ambush position, and then springing the ambush well inside detection range so the poor sod is doomed. Sure you might only kill two ships that way because getting away completely clean in unlikely unless conditions are ideal, but if a DD can kill two BBs, that's a heck of a trade. 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,615
[-K-]
[-K-]
Members
6,121 posts
27,992 battles

You are suppose to trade a DD for a BB or cruiser, or even trading a DD for an enemy DD depending on the period in the match.

 

DDs are EXPANDABLE, as long as the trade is favorable to the flow of the match. A suicidal run on a BB and killing it point blank with a full salvo of torps is BENEFICIAL TO YOUR TEAM.

 

That might be true in the real world, but it's definitely not true in World of Warships. If you only have one ship left on your team by the end of a match, you want it to be a destroyer so you can safely cap the points and win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
254 posts
4,459 battles

 

You are suppose to trade a DD for a BB or cruiser, or even trading a DD for an enemy DD depending on the period in the match.

 

DDs are EXPANDABLE, as long as the trade is favorable to the flow of the match. A suicidal run on a BB and killing it point blank with a full salvo of torps is BENEFICIAL TO YOUR TEAM.

 

I highly doubt people want to play an expendable ship. Very few are going to start up a match thinking, I want to get in and out of this game as quickly as possible and only want to kill one ship.

 

 

No most people just assume since other nation's DDs are gunboats or can be, IJN MUST be gunboats. That is a logical fallacy. Is the [edited]turret turning speed not a hint enough for people? And not to mention the glorious IJN torp speed, with torp acceleration, the torp's speed is just "oh my god i'm orgasming" fast. Gives zero chance even for a cruiser to dodge at close range.

It's not that everyone assumes IJN DD's should be gunboats, it's that the meta in the game favors gunboats heavily, so non-gunboat DD's are worse off. Everything your mentioned about IJN torps is what makes people try to use them at max range, faster torp speed means less leading from a distance, and relatively small stealth envelopes, that gets worse as you go up in tiers, means that firing from anything other than max range has a higher probability of getting you killed, and like it or not, people don't want to die when they play a match, that's just not where the player psychology is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,593
[CRMSN]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
6,021 posts
4,739 battles

 

You are suppose to trade a DD for a BB or cruiser, or even trading a DD for an enemy DD depending on the period in the match.

 

DDs are EXPANDABLE, as long as the trade is favorable to the flow of the match. A suicidal run on a BB and killing it point blank with a full salvo of torps is BENEFICIAL TO YOUR TEAM.

 

If you are fighting a target on even terms in a DD. You are doing it wrong. 

 

a 1 for 1 trade for a BB as a DD is a loss for your team . The value you bring to the match later on is much more exponential then a BB. 

 

There are very few situations that require a DD to throw away his life in order to kill 1 target. 

 

You should be constantly telling yourself..

 

"how do I sink this target while minimizing the risk to myself as much as possible" 

Edited by Cobraclutch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×