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Reloading torpedo tubes question (in real life)

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How did they do it in real life?  I'm looking at the Graf Spee and the dual quads on the back.  Where were the extra torpedoes?  How many men were stationed there?  How long did it really take?

 

 

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Most ships only had the torpedoes in the tubes. The nation most renowned for carrying extra reloads of torpedoes were the Japanese. For most other navies and their vessels, once you fired your torpedoes... That was it.

 

Torpedoes could be resupplied when the ship returned to port, and possibly (not an expert) by resupply ships. Rearming torpedoes from one ship to another at sea seems a bit... out there, but not impossible.

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In general, they didn't.

 

Only some IJN DDs and CAs carried reloads.

 

With those ships, line the tubes up with the reloads, then winch them in, I guess.

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Makes sense.  So just spamming torps every 30 seconds is totally unrealistic.  I knew it was too good to be real.

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Not all ships where capable of underway replenishment of torpedo launchers. Very few where capable of doing so quickly in near combat conditions.

 

For the Deutschland class the extra torpedoes if any would be located in the deep mag and have to be hoisted up and then placed on a truck/dolly and hauled by hand over to the back of the tube, the dolly usually being designed to be at the right height needed for inserting the torpedo into the launcher. It was a labor intensive process and definitely not something done while in combat.

 

If you are curious here is the manual for operating the USN 21 inch Mk 14/15 torpedo launcher.

 

http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/destroyer/ddtubes/index.htm#pg7

Edited by Cragger

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Makes sense.  So just spamming torps every 30 seconds is totally unrealistic.  I knew it was too good to be real.

 

Game's centered around a little something called "balance" with "realism" taking the second seat.

 

  • Radar doesn't go through solid land (or islands) like a hot knife through butter.
  • Hitpoints aren't a real thing.
  • Battleships (and cruisers) don't get a magical heal.

 

The list goes on.

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As noted above, the Japanese were really the only ones to put serious effort into ships carrying reloads for their torpedo tubes.

 

In the USN's case it was a deliberate decision made in the late 1920's when they started to look into replacing the flushdeck DD's of WW1 fame.

 

 In any case, the Bureau recommended that all torpedoes be carries in tubes rather than designing a smaller battery with reloads, as tubes weighed little more than any other type of satisfactory torpedo stowage.

 

-United States Navy Destroyers of World War II, page 14 paragraph 8.

  by John C. Reilly, JR

 

 

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How did they do it in real life?  I'm looking at the Graf Spee and the dual quads on the back.  Where were the extra torpedoes?  How many men were stationed there?  How long did it really take?

 

 

 

Yeah, Japanese ships sometimes carried reloads... And reloading them? Look in game on some DDs. See the tracks on the deck that end right near the torp tubes? Boom, there you go

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Some IJN Crisers and had ability to reload torpedo by themselves by using special facility(depicted as consumable in game). Reload time varied from few minutes to half an hour, depending on ship and amount of torpedo loaded. Other navies did not implemented this because torpedo reserve had very high chance of detonation and it took so much space that it hinders mouny and use of gun... and we do know which navy won.

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Also, carrying reloads for torpedoes was extremely dangerous. If torpedoes were hit by enemy shells, your ship will be blown from the water. That's why most ships often jettisoned torpedoes upon entering combat. Carrying reloads for them greatly extended this process, thus making it much more vulnerable to being detonated by a single hit.

Edited by goldeagle1123

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Some IJN Crisers and had ability to reload torpedo by themselves by using special facility(depicted as consumable in game). Reload time varied from few minutes to half an hour, depending on ship and amount of torpedo loaded. Other navies did not implemented this because torpedo reserve had very high chance of detonation and it took so much space that it hinders mouny and use of gun... and we do know which navy won.

 

I can quite confidently say that the Japanese did not lose the war in the Pacific because some of their cruisers and destroyers carried reloads for their torpedoes.
Edited by goldeagle1123

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The IJN cruisers have loading rails/ramps that you can see if you take a close look at some of their torpedo mounts.  Atago off the top of my head has some readily visible ones.

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I can quite confidently say that the Japanese did not lose the war int he Pacific because some of their cruisers and destroyer carried reloads for their torpedoes.

 

IJN navy, which ironically started pacific war with carrier strikes, had a doctrine heavily focused on "one decisive battle". This is why IJN CAs have stupid turret placement (e.g. myoko-class and takao-class) to maximize firepower in such battle, and some CLs and DDs have torpedo reloading device at a price of better guns and AA for attrition and again "decisive battle"

 

Meanwhile, USN removed its torpedo tubes on CA/CLs to minimize chance of detonation, and placed more AA armaments even if they should remove main gun turret(s). We know "decisive battle" of pacific war (e.g. Midway, Marianas) was in favor of 

USN. And let's not even talk about all the ships those cruisers sank with their proud "long lance" torpedo, shall we?

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As noted above, the Japanese were really the only ones to put serious effort into ships carrying reloads for their torpedo tubes.

 

In the USN's case it was a deliberate decision made in the late 1920's when they started to look into replacing the flushdeck DD's of WW1 fame.

I keep having a thought in my mind of how many 5-tube launchers you could stack on top of each other on a Fletcher before the ship capsized... :P

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IJN navy, which ironically started pacific war with carrier strikes, had a doctrine heavily focused on "one decisive battle". This is why IJN CAs have stupid turret placement (e.g. myoko-class and takao-class) to maximize firepower in such battle, and some CLs and DDs have torpedo reloading device at a price of better guns and AA for attrition and again "decisive battle"

 

Meanwhile, USN removed its torpedo tubes on CA/CLs to minimize chance of detonation, and placed more AA armaments even if they should remove main gun turret(s). We know "decisive battle" of pacific war (e.g. Midway, Marianas) was in favor of 

USN. And let's not even talk about all the ships those cruisers sank with their proud "long lance" torpedo, shall we?

 

Lol "IJN navy". Acronyms OP.

 

Also cool story bro, I am well aware of USN and IJN naval doctrine. What you just said has nothing to do with my comment.

 

Also it shows a complete lack of knowledge of WW2 naval battles. There never was a "decisive battle". Midway was simply a logistical miscalculations that cost the Japanese 4 of their best carriers, the IJN in no way committed the bulk of it's forces there for a decisive battles, they simply wanted to capture Midway. Neither was the Marianas, 2 carrier forces engaging each other does not fit the Japanese description of a "decisive battle". And with your last comment we can tell that you are just some sad, misguided USN fanboy.

Edited by goldeagle1123
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To actually load torps when resupplying, cranes were used. You can see these on some US DDs next to the tubes. I guess if the ship didn't have them the dock/resupply ship may have a big enough crane, or the tubes were low enough for something else to be used. The tracks on other DDs were used to cart them around (also not when in combat).

 

The special IJN reloader has the torp boxes placed right in line with the launcher (some would require traversing the launcher after a couple were loaded to load the other two due to how they were positioned). I'd assume cables and winches were used.

 

I'm not totally certain on accuracy, but here's a quick depiction of the reload (caution, anime. Don't watch beyond the example if you don't want it).

 

 

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Japanese Heavy Cruisers were the real Torpedo Spammers during combat operations.

During the protracted Battle of Java Sea, and later, Sunda Strait, with the ABDA (American-British-Dutch-Australian) forces, the IJN Heavy Cruisers Nachi and Haguro launched all the torpedoes in their inventory.

During the Battle of Sunda Strait, 87 Long Lance torpedoes hit the water.  Those hit friendly transports and turned them pink for the next 5 battles.

And then there was the Battle of Savo Island....  torpedo soup.

http://www.combinedfleet.com/battles/Java_Campaign#Java_Sea


 

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Also, carrying reloads for torpedoes was extremely dangerous. If torpedoes were hit by enemy shells, your ship will be blown from the water. That's why most ships often jettisoned torpedoes upon entering combat. Carrying reloads for them greatly extended this process, thus making it much more vulnerable to being detonated by a single hit.

 

Only applied to IJN torpedoes that where compressed oxygen fueled. The High Explosive within the warhead was quite stable and not prone to shock detonation as well as had a high self detonation temperature just like burst charges in shells. Compressed air torpedoes if hit would start a fuel fire at times but it would not reach the temperatures needed for self detonation. Compressed oxygen torpedoes however would due to the higher amount of oxygen available to the fuel causing a hotter fire. 

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Only applied to IJN torpedoes that where compressed oxygen fueled. The High Explosive within the warhead was quite stable and not prone to shock detonation as well as had a high self detonation temperature just like burst charges in shells. Compressed air torpedoes if hit would start a fuel fire at times but it would not reach the temperatures needed for self detonation. Compressed oxygen torpedoes however would due to the higher amount of oxygen available to the fuel causing a hotter fire. 

One reason why the USN used hydrogen peroxide. Much more stable if hit by enemy shells.

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 And let's not even talk about all the ships those cruisers sank with their proud "long lance" torpedo, shall we?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_93_torpedo#Successes_of_the_Type_93_torpedo

 

I'm as critical of the IJN as anyone, but one thing you absolutely can't take from them is the effectiveness of the Type 93.

Edited by Formerly_Wu

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Makes sense.  So just spamming torps every 30 seconds is totally unrealistic.  I knew it was too good to be real.

 

They are 2 to 4 tons EACH. Not to mention carrying volitle fuel, containing highly oxidizing agents. IJN even used liquid oxygen. Storing torps on board is like exposing your magazine directly to enemy fire. IJN DDs famously having their liquid oxygen ignited then just freak-sploodes.

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I keep having a thought in my mind of how many 5-tube launchers you could stack on top of each other on a Fletcher before the ship capsized... :P

 

I'm not certain about the Fletcher, but for all of the prewar destroyers the answer would be "basically none." Those things were top-heavy as all get out, which is why they had to remove turrets, torpedo launchers, and anything else they could find once they started beefing up their AA suites.

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Most ships only had the torpedoes in the tubes. The nation most renowned for carrying extra reloads of torpedoes were the Japanese. For most other navies and their vessels, once you fired your torpedoes... That was it.

 

Torpedoes could be resupplied when the ship returned to port, and possibly (not an expert) by resupply ships. Rearming torpedoes from one ship to another at sea seems a bit... out there, but not impossible.

 

Yeah, so Torps should fire 1 at a time, then once you blow ur load ur done....there is a way to make torpedoes more powerful but at the same  time alot less horse [edited]to face....

 

Cuz its pretty stupid having like an Atago, launch 16 torps......yeah, turn and WASD hack your way through 16 torps all crossing each other's paths......then you have a Minekaze covering the area in 12 more, with a Leander tossing out 8, then even the Tirpitz throws in its 3.....

 

the Sheer amount of torpedos per game, along with how they have no RNG factors to make  them fail, and they deal absurd damage, plus cause flooding on top of it, is why they are over the top. 

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Most ships only had the torpedoes in the tubes. The nation most renowned for carrying extra reloads of torpedoes were the Japanese. For most other navies and their vessels, once you fired your torpedoes... That was it.

 

Torpedoes could be resupplied when the ship returned to port, and possibly (not an expert) by resupply ships. Rearming torpedoes from one ship to another at sea seems a bit... out there, but not impossible.

 

USN used colliers to resupply torpedoes at sea

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