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JinghisKhan

Royal Navy BB Line Proposal

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My personal lineup would go something like this:

 

Tier III - HMS Dreadnought. Classic ship, first of it's kind. No other real choice here.

 

Tier IV - HMS Colossus. Some would put the Orion-class here, but with all other BBs mounted with either 12-inch guns (Wyoming, Kaiser) or with small numbers of 14-inch guns (Myogi), giving the RN a BB mounted with 10 13.5 inch guns might be a bit unfair from a balance perspective (ignoring the Nikolai here, of course). The Colossus-class, with 10 12-inch guns and a 21-knot speed, would be well balanced against it's peers. The Agincourt would be hilarious to play as a premium-something like a Wyoming on steroids, really.

 

Tier V - HMS Tiger or HMS Iron Duke. Either a Kongo-expy in the Tiger with high speed and powerful guns but low armor, or a slow-but-powerful slugger in the Iron Duke. The Orion-class might work here but I like the secondary fit of the Iron Duke more.

 

Tier VI - HMS Queen Elizabeth. Warspite is already established, so mainline her but give the QE her WWI settings as the standard fit that requires work to upgrade.

 

Tier VII - HMS King George V, with HMS Hood as a premium. The KGV is outgunned at Tier VII with it's 14-inch rifles, but so is the Dunkerque and the Scharnhorst. 10 14-inch guns with a good reload time plus a fast 28.5 knot speed can make this ship very useful in the right situations. The Hood can be sold as a premium and is properly tiered here as well, mounting eight 15-inch guns but with relatively vulnerable armor to true BBs. Alternatively, there can also be a sub-branch here (similar to the Japanese DD tree) where an additional slot opens up at Tier VII for the HMS Nelson instead. Nine 16-inch guns with a 23-knot speed puts it in directly comparison with the Colorado and the Nagato, having more firepower than both but slower than the latter.

 

Tier VIII - HMS Vanguard. I love the look of the Nelson, but the slow-as-heck speed make it tough to slot it in here vs the speedy North Carolina, Amagi, and Bismarch/Tirpitz sisters. The Vanguard, with a 30+ knot top speed and eight 15-inch guns, compares favorably to the Bismarck and the Tirpitz in terms of overall performance.

 

Tier IX - HMS Lion (1930s BB design). 28-knot speed and nine 16-inch guns make it comparable to the Iowa, though a bit slower. Still, fast enough for BB work.

 

Tier X - HMS Victory (Theoretical BB). The N3 design is too slow and outdated to work as a Tier X, so why not create a new one based off of it and name it after the most iconic warship in the history of the Royal Navy? Give it an N3 gun layout (similar to the Nikolai but with three 18-inch triple turrets), a 29-knot top speed, armor somewhere between the Montana and the Yamato, then add in a munchkin load of AA guns and call it a day.

 

Obviously, just my two cents.

 

 

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Not bad, not bad. The Hood could go into a potential BC tree, where there are plenty of good candidates that can go in. 

 

Absolutely. I'm guessing that WG will implement a single line first and then split out, similar to how the Japanese DDs were done and how the upcoming Russian DD/USN CA vs CL lines will. Would LOVE to see the Invincible, the Queen Mary, the Renown, and other BCs be represented here. Heck, still waiting for the USS Alaska at Tier VII as well haha.

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They quite likely already had planned long ago which ships are going to be in the RN BB line. Little late with this "proposal."

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They quite likely already had planned long ago which ships are going to be in the RN BB line. Little late with this "proposal."

 

Not disputing that. Just my thought of what it could look like, that's all.

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Not disputing that. Just my thought of what it could look like, that's all.

 

The only problem of the line is KGV. She's armored like a T8 or even T9, but gunned like a T7. It's difficult to say where she should go as some proposals put her at T8 with Nelson at T7.

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The only problem of the line is KGV. She's armored like a T8 or even T9, but gunned like a T7. It's difficult to say where she should go as some proposals put her at T8 with Nelson at T7.

 

Agreed. The KGV is the one with the most varied set of characteristics, and she could easily be a Tier VIII with that armor and speed, though she'd struggle to kill other BBs at same tier or higher with just those 14-inch guns. I think the Vanguard is the easiest one to slot in at Tier VIII given her similarities to the Bismarck in terms of gun layout and playstyle. The Nelson at T7 is a natural fit as well.

 

Perhaps one way is to make the KGV a Tier VIII premium (and the Hood a Tier VII premium), with the option to either use 10 14-inch guns with a fast reload or refitted with nine 15-inch guns instead with a standard fire rate.

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Good list but I disagree with tier VII. Nelson will be at tier VII to be with rest of the "big seven".

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My personal lineup would go something like this:

 

Tier III - HMS Dreadnought. Classic ship, first of it's kind. No other real choice here.

 

Tier IV - HMS Colossus. Some would put the Orion-class here, but with all other BBs mounted with either 12-inch guns (Wyoming, Kaiser) or with small numbers of 14-inch guns (Myogi), giving the RN a BB mounted with 10 13.5 inch guns might be a bit unfair from a balance perspective (ignoring the Nikolai here, of course). The Colossus-class, with 10 12-inch guns and a 21-knot speed, would be well balanced against it's peers. The Agincourt would be hilarious to play as a premium-something like a Wyoming on steroids, really.

 

Tier V - HMS Tiger or HMS Iron Duke. Either a Kongo-expy in the Tiger with high speed and powerful guns but low armor, or a slow-but-powerful slugger in the Iron Duke. The Orion-class might work here but I like the secondary fit of the Iron Duke more.

 

Tier VI - HMS Queen Elizabeth. Warspite is already established, so mainline her but give the QE her WWI settings as the standard fit that requires work to upgrade.

 

Tier VII - HMS King George V, with HMS Hood as a premium. The KGV is outgunned at Tier VII with it's 14-inch rifles, but so is the Dunkerque and the Scharnhorst. 10 14-inch guns with a good reload time plus a fast 28.5 knot speed can make this ship very useful in the right situations. The Hood can be sold as a premium and is properly tiered here as well, mounting eight 15-inch guns but with relatively vulnerable armor to true BBs. Alternatively, there can also be a sub-branch here (similar to the Japanese DD tree) where an additional slot opens up at Tier VII for the HMS Nelson instead. Nine 16-inch guns with a 23-knot speed puts it in directly comparison with the Colorado and the Nagato, having more firepower than both but slower than the latter.

 

Tier VIII - HMS Vanguard. I love the look of the Nelson, but the slow-as-heck speed make it tough to slot it in here vs the speedy North Carolina, Amagi, and Bismarch/Tirpitz sisters. The Vanguard, with a 30+ knot top speed and eight 15-inch guns, compares favorably to the Bismarck and the Tirpitz in terms of overall performance.

 

Tier IX - HMS Lion (1930s BB design). 28-knot speed and nine 16-inch guns make it comparable to the Iowa, though a bit slower. Still, fast enough for BB work.

 

Tier X - HMS Victory (Theoretical BB). The N3 design is too slow and outdated to work as a Tier X, so why not create a new one based off of it and name it after the most iconic warship in the history of the Royal Navy? Give it an N3 gun layout (similar to the Nikolai but with three 18-inch triple turrets), a 29-knot top speed, armor somewhere between the Montana and the Yamato, then add in a munchkin load of AA guns and call it a day.

 

Obviously, just my two cents.

 

 

Fail tree is fail. KGV at tier VII? No Nelson? The definition of a big seven?

 

:red_button:

 

No.

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Fail tree is fail. KGV at tier VII? No Nelson? The definition of a big seven?

 

:red_button:

 

No.

 

If you had read the rest of my responses to Doomlock, I slotted the Nelson back in at Tier VII and moved the KGV to a Tier VIII premium with an option to use an alternative gun fit. Did you read that and then react, or just skim and then rush to provide a snarky response? Also, and with all due respect, having one difference of opinion with you on which ship to put at Tier VII does not make my proposal a 'fail tree' in my opinion. If you think it is, then kindly provide your own alternative.
Edited by JinghisKhan

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If you had read the rest of my responses to Doomlock, I slotted the Nelson back in at Tier VII and moved the KGV to a Tier VIII premium with an option to use an alternative gun fit. Did you read that and then react, or just skim and then rush to provide a snarky response?

 

I read the OP, which I responded to. I don't owe you anything more than that. Also, the KGVs are far too iconic (and necessary to a functioning line) to be subsumed under premium status. Vanguard's the oddball that should be put in the shop - she's essentially an Iowa hull mounting a tier VI main battery. That's the boat that belongs as the odd man out - particularly since she never saw combat.

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Absolutely. I'm guessing that WG will implement a single line first and then split out, similar to how the Japanese DDs were done and how the upcoming Russian DD/USN CA vs CL lines will. Would LOVE to see the Invincible, the Queen Mary, the Renown, and other BCs be represented here. Heck, still waiting for the USS Alaska at Tier VII as well haha.

 

I, for one, am eager for a Hood-Bismarck rematch. 

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I read the OP, which I responded to. I don't owe you anything more than that. Also, the KGVs are far too iconic (and necessary to a functioning line) to be subsumed under premium status. Vanguard's the oddball that should be put in the shop - she's essentially an Iowa hull mounting a tier VI main battery. That's the boat that belongs as the odd man out - particularly since she never saw combat.

 

You know what-fair enough. How would you address the KGV's gun issues at Tier VIII? That seems to be a popular point of contention on the forums in regards to how it's essentially a Tier VIII ship in every respect but the 14-inch battery.

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You know what-fair enough. How would you address the KGV's gun issues at Tier VIII? That seems to be a popular point of contention on the forums in regards to how it's essentially a Tier VIII ship in every respect but the 14-inch battery.

 

I don't see KGV as having gun issues, largely because of WG's propensity to ignore real life performance of weapons and cobble together whatever the hell stats they want in order to achieve balance. The obvious example would be Scharnhorst's 28 cm SK C/34s, which can do things (like pen the belt of an Iowa, landing enormous citadel damage) they simply weren't capable of IRL; Yamato's cyclic rate is, similarly, the best possible scenario imaginable for those weapons (when many sources put her actual ROF closer to 40-45 seconds). 

 

What do you do with KGV? Build her like a more robust Scharnhorst minus the torps - a brawler with a (a-historical) high ROF, unpredictable (but tolerable) dispersion, with very tanky armor and good turning characteristics. If Scharnhorst's dinky 11" guns can be uptiered and still perform quite well even against enemy capitals, surely KGVs far more respectable main battery could do the same.

 

This game surrendered the realism war long ago... but people still seem to want to fight it out over the KGVs, which I find simultaneously baffling and absurd. Very little about WoWs mirrors real life... and if it did, KGV's main battery would still be acceptable because of the absolute carnage she wreaked on Bismarck's upperworks; the hell Duke of York unleashed against Scharnhorst's main battery and superstructure. WoWs doesn't at all reflect the concept of a battleship being reduced to essentially a floating wreck as happened in both these engagements - everything is weighted against a gun's ability (at ludicrously close ranges) to pen an enemy belt. So what if KGV receives an unrealistic buff? Sauce for the goose. 

Edited by Battleship_DukeofYork

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I don't see KGV as having gun issues, largely because of WG's propensity to ignore real life performance of weapons and cobble together whatever the hell stats they want in order to achieve balance. The obvious example would be Scharnhorst's 28 cm SK C/34s, which can do things (like pen the belt of an Iowa, landing enormous citadel damage) they simply weren't capable of IRL; Yamato's cyclic rate is, similarly, the best possible scenario imaginable for those weapons (when many sources put her actual ROF closer to 40-45 seconds). 

 

What do you do with KGV? Build her like a more robust Scharnhorst minus the torps - a brawler with a (a-historical) high ROF, unpredictable (but tolerable) dispersion, with very tanky armor and good turning characteristics. If Scharnhorst's dinky 11" guns can be uptiered and still perform quite well even against enemy capitals, surely KGVs far more respectable main battery could do the same.

 

True enough. If that's the case, then I'd rather slot the Vanguard in at Tier IX with some improvements to the 15-inch guns instead of building a hypothetical Lion. It might be the only one of it's class, but it was actually built as compared to paper designs.

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True enough. If that's the case, then I'd rather slot the Vanguard in at Tier IX with some improvements to the 15-inch guns instead of building a hypothetical Lion. It might be the only one of it's class, but it was actually built as compared to paper designs.

 

So would I. And I've all along made the case that Vanguard doesn't belong at tier VIII because she's actually too powerful for that tier. I mean, she would have flat-out demolished any battleship (with the possible exception of NC; that would be a good fight) currently slotted at VIII if they met IRL - I have no doubt in my mind about that. Moreover, she's enormous - several thousand tons larger than even Bismarck when under full load (although, interestingly, her armor is possibly less satisfactory than KGV, and is a closer approximation to an Iowa). But it's a harder case to make because people fixate on those WWI-era rifles (which is silly, since they were one of the best 15" designs ever produced, and a USN study concluded at the end of World War II that they were the all-around best capital armament of that conflict [and far away the most accurate]).

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My personal lineup would go something like this:

 

Tier III - HMS Dreadnought. Classic ship, first of it's kind. No other real choice here.

 

Tier IV - HMS Colossus. Some would put the Orion-class here, but with all other BBs mounted with either 12-inch guns (Wyoming, Kaiser) or with small numbers of 14-inch guns (Myogi), giving the RN a BB mounted with 10 13.5 inch guns might be a bit unfair from a balance perspective (ignoring the Nikolai here, of course). The Colossus-class, with 10 12-inch guns and a 21-knot speed, would be well balanced against it's peers. The Agincourt would be hilarious to play as a premium-something like a Wyoming on steroids, really.

 

Tier V - HMS Tiger or HMS Iron Duke. Either a Kongo-expy in the Tiger with high speed and powerful guns but low armor, or a slow-but-powerful slugger in the Iron Duke. The Orion-class might work here but I like the secondary fit of the Iron Duke more.

 

Tier VI - HMS Queen Elizabeth. Warspite is already established, so mainline her but give the QE her WWI settings as the standard fit that requires work to upgrade.

 

Tier VII - HMS King George V, with HMS Hood as a premium. The KGV is outgunned at Tier VII with it's 14-inch rifles, but so is the Dunkerque and the Scharnhorst. 10 14-inch guns with a good reload time plus a fast 28.5 knot speed can make this ship very useful in the right situations. The Hood can be sold as a premium and is properly tiered here as well, mounting eight 15-inch guns but with relatively vulnerable armor to true BBs. Alternatively, there can also be a sub-branch here (similar to the Japanese DD tree) where an additional slot opens up at Tier VII for the HMS Nelson instead. Nine 16-inch guns with a 23-knot speed puts it in directly comparison with the Colorado and the Nagato, having more firepower than both but slower than the latter.

 

Tier VIII - HMS Vanguard. I love the look of the Nelson, but the slow-as-heck speed make it tough to slot it in here vs the speedy North Carolina, Amagi, and Bismarch/Tirpitz sisters. The Vanguard, with a 30+ knot top speed and eight 15-inch guns, compares favorably to the Bismarck and the Tirpitz in terms of overall performance.

 

Tier IX - HMS Lion (1930s BB design). 28-knot speed and nine 16-inch guns make it comparable to the Iowa, though a bit slower. Still, fast enough for BB work.

 

Tier X - HMS Victory (Theoretical BB). The N3 design is too slow and outdated to work as a Tier X, so why not create a new one based off of it and name it after the most iconic warship in the history of the Royal Navy? Give it an N3 gun layout (similar to the Nikolai but with three 18-inch triple turrets), a 29-knot top speed, armor somewhere between the Montana and the Yamato, then add in a munchkin load of AA guns and call it a day.

 

Obviously, just my two cents.

 

 

Tier III - Dreadnought or Bellerophon.

 

Tier IV - Orion

 

Colossus is a Tier 3.5 ship, her armor is similar to Wyoming, better than Myogi and worse than Kaiser. Her guns fire slower than Kaiser, there is less than Wyoming and they are smaller than Myogi. She has worse speed than everyone besides Wyoming while having the least HP of Tier IV. Orion fits much better, having armor better than Wyoming with a similar speed, larger but slower firing 35 second reload guns and a mid tier HP pool. You are overreacting to the power of 13.5 inch guns, they aren't as amazing as you seem to think.

 

Tier V - Iron Duke

 

Leave the battlecruisers out of the battleship tree, they can make their own tree. Iron Duke is a logical step up from Orion and fits very well in with Konig and New York.

 

Tier VI - Queen Elizabeth or Revenge

 

Either basically a later refit Warspite or Revenge, a better armored yet slower QE.

 

Tier VII - Nelson

 

Nelson is the historical counterpart to Nagato and Colorado, having better armor, middle ground speed, good AA and gun arrangement while having the worse preforming 16 inch guns in WOWS.

 

Tier VIII - King George V

 

King George V has tier VIII HP, armor and AA while having tier VII guns. She would be quite the seal clubber at Tier VII, where is is better armored and faster than the majority of battleships she faces. With a coastal superchargers for her shells and maybe a 28 second reload buff, KGV would still have the ability to deal heavy penetration damage to enemy battleships, even the addition of 15 inch gun upgrades or a third quad turret would make her even better.

 

Tier IX - Lion 1944B

 

Generally, a better protected yet slower Iowa with inferior ballistics on her 16 inchers and similar AA depending on her refit given, should have more HP than Iowa.

 

Tier X - L-III, Lion 1945B or L3

 

Any paper design would work however, the troll armor scheme of L-III and the autoloaders of Lion 1945B make me favor them a bit more.

 

Vanguard is a Tier VIII premium most likely as is Hood at Tier VII.

 

 

Edited by xX_Critical_ClopOut69_Xx

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You know what-fair enough. How would you address the KGV's gun issues at Tier VIII? That seems to be a popular point of contention on the forums in regards to how it's essentially a Tier VIII ship in every respect but the 14-inch battery.

 

Heres the problem with her guns: they were predicted to have worse penetration than the Pennsylvania-class and slightly more than the Kongo-class. Both guns from these ships appear at tier VI. This, combined with a reload speed that is the same of battleships with much higher gun calibers makes KGV seem outclassed. However, I would recommend that her guns have a short fuse time with good dispersion, similar to Dunkerque, which has less guns with a lower gun caliber than her counterparts. Maybe even bump up the chance for a fire?

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Heres the problem with her guns: they were predicted to have worse penetration than the Pennsylvania-class and slightly more than the Kongo-class. Both guns from these ships appear at tier VI. This, combined with a reload speed that is the same of battleships with much higher gun calibers makes KGV seem outclassed. However, I would recommend that her guns have a short fuse time with good dispersion, similar to Dunkerque, which has less guns with a lower gun caliber than her counterparts. Maybe even bump up the chance for a fire?

 

The best option is to give her coastal super chargers and a rate of fire buff, giving her both the fastest shells in her tier and a decent reload time. Keep in mind her shells can still do perfectly fine pen damage to enemy battleships and wreck cruisers.

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So would I. And I've all along made the case that Vanguard doesn't belong at tier VIII because she's actually too powerful for that tier. I mean, she would have flat-out demolished any battleship (with the possible exception of NC; that would be a good fight) currently slotted at VIII if they met IRL - I have no doubt in my mind about that. Moreover, she's enormous - several thousand tons larger than even Bismarck when under full load (although, interestingly, her armor is possibly less satisfactory than KGV, and is a closer approximation to an Iowa). But it's a harder case to make because people fixate on those WWI-era rifles (which is silly, since they were one of the best 15" designs ever produced, and a USN study concluded at the end of World War II that they were the all-around best capital armament of that conflict [and far away the most accurate]).

 

What source do you have Vanguard outweighing Bismarck/Tirpitz? Most sources I can find out Vanguard at roughly 51,500 tonnes while Tirpitz is rocking around 52,600?

 

Either way, I don't see Vanguard being unbalanced at Tier VIII. She gets KGV tier armor with Warspite guns and god tier AA depending on refits, while having squarely Tier VIII/IX HP. 15 inch guns are great however, Vanguard is facing the 18 inchers of Yamato and the 16 inchers of Montana and Iowa, her 15 inch WWI era guns just cannot carry her that far.

 

Hence why she's a premium.

Edited by xX_Critical_ClopOut69_Xx

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The best option is to give her coastal super chargers and a rate of fire buff, giving her both the fastest shells in her tier and a decent reload time. Keep in mind her shells can still do perfectly fine pen damage to enemy battleships and wreck cruisers.

 

As much as I'd like a RoF buff, her shells traded velocity for a heavier weight. Other ships with smaller gun calibers such as Dunkerque and Scharnhorst have good penetration simply because they have very high shell velocities. Similarly, this is why Littorio is placed at tier VIII as well: her guns have an incredibly high velocity, and thus, have a better penetration. 

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As much as I'd like a RoF buff, her shells traded velocity for a heavier weight. Other ships with smaller gun calibers such as Dunkerque and Scharnhorst have good penetration simply because they have very high shell velocities. Similarly, this is why Littorio is placed at tier VIII as well: her guns have an incredibly high velocity, and thus, have a better penetration. 

 

I don't see her being competitive without super chargers atleast, at least NC has those 16 inch shells to fall back on, KGV would be firing slower and inferior shells to every other battleships unless we are talking a serious ROF buff.

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KGV will most likely have  9x 15" gun as per one of the proposals for the main line with the 10x 14" gun version  that was actually built as a premium (Prince of Wales?) based on how the Scharnhorst & Gnisenau was handled.  WG have stated previously that they wanted the gun caliber to increase as you progress up the tech tree and do not want to repeat the Mogami 152mm/203mm split. 

Edited by NCC81701

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