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IKU19

You're kidding right?

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MrConway over on the EU forums posted the exact changes between the first and second iteration of the 0.6.0.0 public test 

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?showtopic=71217

 

Among that, there's this

 

Akizuki: armor penetration of 100-mm HE Type8 shell was reduced from 19 mm to 17 mm.

  • This is a purely technical change, as 19 mm was not enough to match 19 mm DD plating. In 0.6.0, players who would like to penetrate 19 mm plating with 100-mm HE shells, should use the Inertial HE Fuse skill.

 

You are kidding right? You're forcing people to spend an entire 4 point skill, IFHE if they want to do any direct HE shell damage at all?

Are you out of your mind? This is absolutely awful game design and awful QoL.


While you're at it, why not add a "Underwater Fins for AP" skill that will allow AP shells to travel twice as far underwater, but first nerf the underwater travel distance by a third. Or a "HE for RN" skill that gives RN ships HE, but takes their AP away. Absolutely insane.

 

It's not "purely technical" don't even try feeding me that nonsense.

 

I know that in a DD fight Akizuki should use AP, but what are you going to do when they just angle and bounce all your shells? Lord knows you can't overmatch 19mm either.

 

Seriously. This change is counter intuitive, and does nothing but frustrate players that actually play the ship requiring yet another specialized captain for one single ship. Like we didn't already have enough of those.

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The Akizuki HE shells are notorious for not penetrating right now, so I don't see the point of nerfing its HE penetration even further. 

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It is hard to believe they have the audacity to state "​This is a purely technical change" when in-fact it is a direct nerf to the ability of Akizuki to deal with targets, on-top of the performance she already has on Live. This has many (including myself) questioning for nth time that if Akizuki is too powerful to be allowed to do HE damage on targets, why exactly is she a Tier 8 destroyer? It's a damn good thing this doesn't affect carrier aviation anti-ship weaponry or battleship shells.

 

WG are clearly out of touch. Are they going to hold all destroyer player hands now in having them build a captain skill tree? This is basically WG saying "this is the one and only way to play this ship. Play it like this." It's oddly reminiscent of the Gearing using the Torpedo Acceleration skill.

 

"Take this medicine if you don't want your person to die, however you life will still end after you have taken it."

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"Take this medicine poison if you don't want your person to die a slow death, however you life will still end after you have taken it because it's worse."

 

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Uh, Akizuki was never able to pen 19mm arrmor with HE in the first place. 

 

In addition, if you go by the 1/6th rule, Akizuki should pen 16.6mm of armor with HE, in line with their new "change". 

Edited by saagri

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I think it is more of a matter of WG saying "We are going to force you to shoot AP and you are GOING TO LIKE IT!". I never saw the HE on the Akizuki being an issue before. No idea why they feel the need to nerf the HE more.

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It is hard to believe they have the audacity to state "​This is a purely technical change" when in-fact it is a direct nerf to the ability of Akizuki to deal with targets, on-top of the performance she already has on Live. This has many (including myself) questioning for nth time that if Akizuki is too powerful to be allowed to do HE damage on targets, why exactly is she a Tier 8 destroyer? It's a damn good thing this doesn't affect carrier aviation anti-ship weaponry or battleship shells.

 

WG are clearly out of touch. Are they going to hold all destroyer player hands now in having them build a captain skill tree? This is basically WG saying "this is the one and only way to play this ship. Play it like this." It's oddly reminiscent of the Gearing using the Torpedo Acceleration skill.

 

"Take this medicine if you don't want your person to die, however you life will still end after you have taken it."

 

So, which ships have 18mm of armour? This doesn't change anything. She was never able to pen the hulls of T8-10 DDs or the superstructures of T8-10 BBs, and she still can't. 
Edited by Aduial
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It really is a technical change. It's a nerf that doesn't really nerf anything.

 

Without IFHE, Akizuki's shells will penetrate 16 mm armor. Next step up is 19 mm armor, which it can't penetrate anyway with the current 19 mm Alpha Piercing value, not without IFHE. After this "nerf" it still doesn't change anything. With the old 19 mm figure, it will only get 25 mm with IFHE which means it can only penetrate up to 24 mm. However, there's no armor group between 19 and 25, so there's really no change.

 

In summary, this is what Akizuki's HE shell can penetrate:

  • Before 0.6.0 : 16 mm armor
  • After 0.6.0 + IFHE + without nerf : 19 mm armor
  • After 0.6.0 + IFHE + with nerf : 19 mm armor

 

No change at all.

 

The only thing WG will be doing with this is bring its Alpha Piercing value to be more in line with the other 102 mm - 105 mm guns.

 

 

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It really is a technical change. It's a nerf that doesn't really nerf anything.

 

Without IFHE, Akizuki's shells will penetrate 16 mm armor. Next step up is 19 mm armor, which it can't penetrate anyway with the current 19 mm Alpha Piercing value, not without IFHE. After this "nerf" it still doesn't change anything. With the old 19 mm figure, it will only get 25 mm with IFHE which means it can only penetrate up to 24 mm. However, there's no armor group between 19 and 25, so there's really no change.

 

In summary, this is what Akizuki's HE shell can penetrate:

  • Before 0.6.0 : 16 mm armor
  • After 0.6.0 + IFHE + without nerf : 19 mm armor
  • After 0.6.0 + IFHE + with nerf : 19 mm armor

 

No change at all.

 

The only thing WG will be doing with this is bring its Alpha Piercing value to be more in line with the other 102 mm - 105 mm guns.

 

 

 

What are the values for Akizuki HE penetration After 0.6.0 without IFHE?

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What are the values for Akizuki HE penetration After 0.6.0 without IFHE?

 

According to the link in the OP, it'll be 17 mm.

 

They buffed the IFHE penetration bonus from 25% to 30% isnt that enough to akizuki penetrate 25mm? (before the akizuki nerf)

 

Even with the old 19 mm value, nope. It will raise the Alpha Piercing HE value to 25 mm, but it won't penetrate 25 mm of armor. In order to penetrate 25 mm armor, the value after IFHE needs to be > 25 mm, even 25.01 will be enough.

 

edit: Haha, I was working from memory. Bringing out the calculator, 19 mm alpha piercing HE * 1.3 (from IFHE) = 24.7, so nowhere close enough to penetrate 25 mm armor in the first place.

 

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Obviously HEAP needs to be buffed so akizuki can pen 25mm armor with HE. :trollface:

 

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Akizuki can't pen the hulls of tier 8+ Destroyers with HE on live currently.  This "nerf" does nothing but bring her into line with other HE shell penetration.

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In addition, if you go by the 1/6th rule, Akizuki should pen 16.6mm of armor with HE, in line with their new "change". 

 

This is the key right here.  At present, Akizuki shouldn't be able to penetrate 19mm of armor anyway.  WG has stated that HE shells have armor penetration equal to 1/6 of their diameter (1/4 for German battleships).  This is backed up by the shell data available at gamemodels3d.  

 

At present, Akizuki breaks this rule by having 19mm of penetration on a 100mm shell.  They're fixing it so it falls in line with every other destroyer in the game.

Edited by SeaRaptor00
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This is the key right here.  At present, Akizuki shouldn't be able to penetrate 19mm of armor anyway.  WG has stated that HE shells have armor penetration equal to 1/6 of their diameter (1/4 for German battleships).  This is backed up by the shell data available at gamemodels3d.  

 

At present, Akizuki breaks this rule by having 19mm of penetration on a 100mm shell.  They're fixing it so it falls in line with every other destroyer in the game.

 

Don't know why it was given 19mm penetration in the first place when it couldn't pen 19mm armor. 

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Don't know why it was given 19mm penetration in the first place when it couldn't pen 19mm armor. 

 

Whatever the Alpha Piercing HE value is in the game files, it's the minimum value that the shell can't penetrate.

 

E.g. 150 mm will have 25 mm Alpha Piercing HE. But it can't penetrate 25 mm armor, but it will penetrate 24 mm armor or less. You can test this out with a Gaede or Z-23 in the training room on live right now.

 

According to gamemodels3d, 152 mm HE also has 25 mm Alpha Piercing HE, so it too will not be able to penetrate 25 mm armor. Mogami's 155 mm HE however has 26 mm Alpha Piercing HE, and will penetrate 25 mm armor.

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Whatever the Alpha Piercing HE value is in the game files, it's the minimum value that the shell can't penetrate.

 

E.g. 150 mm will have 25 mm Alpha Piercing HE. But it can't penetrate 25 mm armor, but it will penetrate 24 mm armor or less. You can test this out with a Gaede or Z-23 in the training room on live right now.

 

According to gamemodels3d, 152 mm HE also has 25 mm Alpha Piercing HE, so it too will not be able to penetrate 25 mm armor. Mogami's 155 mm HE however has 26 mm Alpha Piercing HE, and will penetrate 25 mm armor.

 

I mean, why did Akizuki get 19mm pen when it can't pen 19mm, and especially when it should have been 17mm to begin with based on the HE pen rule. 

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It seems like they dont even play their game.

Akizuki cant penetrate anything with HE currently... wth

Edited by atl_grunge

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That only makes Akizuki unable to penetrate 19mm of armor, which made her able to gun down higher tier destroyers easily by damaging them everywhere.

 

JUST AIM AT THE SUPERSTRUCTURE THEN

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I mean, why did Akizuki get 19mm pen when it can't pen 19mm, and especially when it should have been 17mm to begin with based on the HE pen rule. 

 

Not a clue. Probably inhereted it from Zao/Hakuryu's 100 mm secondaries, which would have no reason to have it at 19 mm either.

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That only makes Akizuki unable to penetrate 19mm of armor, which made her able to gun down higher tier destroyers easily by damaging them everywhere.

 

JUST AIM AT THE SUPERSTRUCTURE THEN

 

It's not easy to hit a DD's superstructure, especially if they're maneuvering. 

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It's not easy to hit a DD's superstructure, especially if they're maneuvering. 

 

As long as the HE blast radius touches the superstructure, it counts as a penetration.  It's not that hard honestly, the top part of the belt of a destroyer usually will yield penetrations because of this.

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That only makes Akizuki unable to penetrate 19mm of armor, which made her able to gun down higher tier destroyers easily by damaging them everywhere.

 

JUST AIM AT THE SUPERSTRUCTURE THEN

 

Akizuki was never able to pen 19mm in the first place. 

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That only makes Akizuki unable to penetrate 19mm of armor, which made her able to gun down higher tier destroyers easily by damaging them everywhere.

 

JUST AIM AT THE SUPERSTRUCTURE THEN

 

It's not easy to hit a DD's superstructure, especially if they're maneuvering. 

 

Killed a Gearing recently with my Akizuki by beating it to death with AP.

 

Using mostly ap against superstructures lately anyway, unless I'm on a masochistic jag, and want to try to set something on fire...

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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It really is a technical change. It's a nerf that doesn't really nerf anything.

 

Without IFHE, Akizuki's shells will penetrate 16 mm armor. Next step up is 19 mm armor, which it can't penetrate anyway with the current 19 mm Alpha Piercing value, not without IFHE. After this "nerf" it still doesn't change anything. With the old 19 mm figure, it will only get 25 mm with IFHE which means it can only penetrate up to 24 mm. However, there's no armor group between 19 and 25, so there's really no change.

 

In summary, this is what Akizuki's HE shell can penetrate:

  • Before 0.6.0 : 16 mm armor
  • After 0.6.0 + IFHE + without nerf : 19 mm armor
  • After 0.6.0 + IFHE + with nerf : 19 mm armor

 

No change at all.

 

The only thing WG will be doing with this is bring its Alpha Piercing value to be more in line with the other 102 mm - 105 mm guns.

Just 3 questions is all I need to be satisfied:

  1. What is Akizuki's current maximum armour penetration with HE?
  2. What is Akizuki's maximum armour penetration with HE (0.6.0)?
  3. What is Akizuki's maximum armour penetration with HE (0.6.0, IFHE)?

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