Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
SkaerKrow

What value is there in "Brawler" Battleships

18 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

5,210
[SIM]
Members
5,392 posts
8,890 battles

So after having great fun and not completely sucking in my Dunkerque and Scharnhorst, I've decided to give the Tirpitz a try again. Originally I (like a lot of noobs, I'm sure) tried sniping with the Tirpitz, and got roundly punished by the horrible dispersion values. Knowing better now, I've come back to it, and I'm playing it more aggressively, engaging targets at 5-10km instead of 20. And dying. To torpedoes. Constantly. I'm pretty good at dodging torpedoes in my other BBs (Warspite, Dunkerque, and Scharnhorst specifically), but then again, I'm usually not trying to actively close in those ships.

 

So what's the deal with "Brawler" battleships? I can put out more damage from other ships at medium range, so why play a ship that needs to close in order to be effective? In a perfect world, I'd have some CAs or DDs close in that would help screen or at least pressure enemy torp boats, but in the world of randoms, usually I'm fighting by myself with my closest teammate about 12km behind me (and that's just when I'm defending or pushing a cap, not charging off to over-extend). Sorry if this is a bit rant-tastic, but I'm feeling pretty salty right now and trying to sort this whole thing out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
328
[SWOB]
[SWOB]
Alpha Tester
1,147 posts
6,651 battles

Because it's a team game and in order for cruisers and destroyers to live they need heavy support up close and personal.  Plus it's fun.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
271 posts
10,664 battles

So far my favorite brawler is Bayern. I know Tirpitz is higher tier, but something about the ships that Bayern sees brings out its better short-range qualities. To make a brawler work, one should use every club in the bag. Ship upgrades, captain perks and flags should all be focused on secondary guns and agility. The rudder upgrade is a must for any brawler. You WILL experience more torps up close.  Bayern also fires both AP and HE from its two flavors of secondaries. Personal best to date is 160 secondary hits in one battle. 100+ is a good number. I would not use the 5 point secondary captain perk, as it disables one side of secondary guns. Diving in and gnawing on Omahas from both sides is an experience not to be missed.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
396
[B808]
Members
1,326 posts
7,773 battles

Some of those same BB's stay at the edge of the map.... why? what's the purpose ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,363
[HYD]
Members
7,105 posts
5,289 battles

1. It's fun.

2. It helps your team when you tank damage.

3. Did I mention it's fun? 

 

Also, you don't have to be brawling in a brawling battleship all the time. During the first minutes of the game you should stay a bit further, and only push in once the enemy has been weakened. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
396
[B808]
Members
1,326 posts
7,773 battles

During the first minutes of the game you should stay a bit further, and only push in once the enemy has been weakened. 



 

True , yet I have had more games than not lately where a US BB will be almost full health even after half the match is over 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,363
[HYD]
Members
7,105 posts
5,289 battles

So far my favorite brawler is Bayern. I know Tirpitz is higher tier, but something about the ships that Bayern sees brings out its better short-range qualities. To make a brawler work, one should use every club in the bag. Ship upgrades, captain perks and flags should all be focused on secondary guns and agility. The rudder upgrade is a must for any brawler. You WILL experience more torps up close.  Bayern also fires both AP and HE from its two flavors of secondaries. Personal best to date is 160 secondary hits in one battle. 100+ is a good number. I would not use the 5 point secondary captain perk, as it disables one side of secondary guns. Diving in and gnawing on Omahas from both sides is an experience not to be missed.

 

This is true for T6 BBs and below, but for any secondary build starting at T7 needs the MFCSA skill. This is because MFCSA only gives a 10% reduction for T6 ships and below, while T7-10 ships are given a 60% reduction in dispersion. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,594
[-KIA-]
Banned
9,382 posts
21,083 battles

Tirpitz in particular can do this:

 

So there is that going for her even over other German and brawler BBs in general.  Scharnhorst and Gneisenau's superstructures are huge targets even if you're up against a BB wielding 14" or smaller guns with shells that you can bounce off the bow, so simply running at someone isn't going to work to this degree, not nearly.

Edited by TenguBlade

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
652 posts

1. It's fun.

2. It helps your team when you tank damage.

3. Did I mention it's fun? 

 

Also, you don't have to be brawling in a brawling battleship all the time. During the first minutes of the game you should stay a bit further, and only push in once the enemy has been weakened. 

 

1. Only if you successful. Noob's brawling is very short and depressing (well, yeah - it's fun for enemy)

2. Again - not always. Only if team _uses_ your brawling to push - that is if you brawling with team and not alone. Otherwise untimely death of BB won't help team in any way.

3. Fun for everybody different. I'm sure those who snipe from far getting great satisfaction (among 15 BB in my fleet I consider Nagato the only dedicated sniper and she is total fun to bust cruisers in 14-18 km range).

 

Brawling is not for noobs. You need to have very good map awareness - position of enemy dd's, possible ambush, time of next airstrike. You need to understand will you be supported by other BB/CA, is there risk of getting too many fires because red CA will focus you. What is your goal, hence your path and will you be broadsided anywhere on this path. That said, I'd recommend playing in divisions for brawling. 2 BB and USN DD is very good combo for this (other option would be radar CA + USN DD)

 

 

 

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
77
[POP]
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
251 posts
2,858 battles

It takes a real man to get in your face and brawl with you.. and remember there is MUCH HONOR in ramming as japan ;)

Edited by W1Z22

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,841
[HINON]
Privateers, In AlfaTesters
7,775 posts
2,137 battles

Brawling is the fine art of knowing when to toss aside all sanity and go balls to the wall and get up in their face.

 

You can't simply go into a match and expect to get into a brawl, or try to brawl when the time is not right. Do that, and you'll end up overextending, and the enemy team will simply fall back and punish you.

All of them.

At once.

 

You gotta know when the time is right to dive in and brawl. It's not somewhere where there are lots of destroyers around, other other ships that have torpedoes, if they're coming from multiple angles.

 

It's also gotta be in a place and time where your team can and will benefit from it. It's actually as much about tanking damage and being the center of attention so that your allies are free to shoot up anything else at will without being shot back at (much) as it is about damage dealing.

 

And it is hella satisfying.

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
605
[TOAST]
[TOAST]
Members
1,444 posts
10,195 battles

 

Brawling isn't just about going at your opponent and closing with him. Try your best to control the engagement. You don't necessarily need to keep closing so fast. If you're chunking him for 10-15K a pop at 10km slow down, keep your angle and keep doing it until he tries to pressure you or run.

 

Sometimes it's better to turn away and back off, give a little ground if you don't see an opportunity to start pushing in with your firepower and tonnage. Sometimes you just need to wait for one ship to over extend or take a random big hit. When they do, turn around and finish the job then grab the next ship behind that one by the face. Once you get that momentum going it can be very difficult to stop you in a Tirpitz. Not only can your guns chunk targets for massive pen damage, you have decent secondaries that will light fires and start melting ships. They also have to worry about getting torpedoed when they get within 6km. They either have to keep closing into you and get chunked buy your guns or try and turn risking a torpedo salvo they probably won't avoid.

 

Edited by Vekta408

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20
[F-U]
Members
205 posts
3,248 battles

Speaking as someone who recently started grinding "brawler" bbs after playing lots of american cruisers...

 

They can really change the flow of a battle. In a brawling BB you can push caps hard and give the smaller combatants the kind of confidence they need to push. With heavy armor and guns if you angle properly you can tank tons of damage and dish out tons of damage allowing for your buddies to stay alive much longer than they normally would.

 

Pushing by yourself is often death because without dds or cruisers to help screen you can really get wrecked by torps but it's super important to know where the line between aggressive and overextended is. As for dodging torps, keep in mind their downsides, namely the fact that they can't go thru islands while you can shoot over them. If you find yourself getting torped a ton, you can always use islands on cap as cover from torps so you can watch less angles. 

 

Ultimately, the most important thing to remember is that although you're tanky, you aren't that tanky. Multiple cruisers focusing you will be death on you health as will multiple bbs. Try to limit engagements of one to one with islands or teamsupport.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38
[MIR]
Members
92 posts
12,642 battles

So after having great fun and not completely sucking in my Dunkerque and Scharnhorst, I've decided to give the Tirpitz a try again. Originally I (like a lot of noobs, I'm sure) tried sniping with the Tirpitz, and got roundly punished by the horrible dispersion values. Knowing better now, I've come back to it, and I'm playing it more aggressively, engaging targets at 5-10km instead of 20. And dying. To torpedoes. Constantly. I'm pretty good at dodging torpedoes in my other BBs (Warspite, Dunkerque, and Scharnhorst specifically), but then again, I'm usually not trying to actively close in those ships.

 

So what's the deal with "Brawler" battleships? I can put out more damage from other ships at medium range, so why play a ship that needs to close in order to be effective? In a perfect world, I'd have some CAs or DDs close in that would help screen or at least pressure enemy torp boats, but in the world of randoms, usually I'm fighting by myself with my closest teammate about 12km behind me (and that's just when I'm defending or pushing a cap, not charging off to over-extend). Sorry if this is a bit rant-tastic, but I'm feeling pretty salty right now and trying to sort this whole thing out. 

 

 

​While the Tirpitz is a good ship, if you want to have some real brawling fun, play the German BB line, acquire the Tirpitz sister ship, Bismarck, and see what the best brawler in the game can do.

 

While the Bismarck isn't a premium ship and doesn't have torps like it's sister, It has the best secondary armament of any battleship in the game, even better than the Yamato. And unlike most other BB secondaries which have limited range, only shoot AP, and are pretty ineffective most of the time, the Bismarck's secondaries spew out a constant barrage of fire breathing HE, at a whopping ten kilometers, that's extremely effective, especially if you go for a full secondary build, with manual control in your fifth tier captain skill.

 

While it may seem reckless to some, I love getting into knife fights with enemy ships when I play the Bismarck, and watching the enemy get burned and shredded, especially when it's a cocky little DD captain who thinks I'm an easy BB kill, who himself ends up the HE spamming victim.

 

Go to the German BB thread, and then go to the Bismarck Fan Club thread, and read and see the incredible games Bismarck players are having with the Bismarck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
8 posts

I'm pretty much strictly a BB player, and a brawling one at that. What can I say, I love to snuggle. The key to brawling is knowing when to double back and turn away, only to come back around and take the lead again, or sail to a better location. Torps can be a massive pain in the [edited]. I deal with torps by anticipating where and what the DDs and CCs are doing. This is more of an advanced tactic and if you're a knob like me it will take you time to figure out. The easier way to deal with torps is by your build and commander skills. Another tactic I use is to get very familiar with where by torpedo bulge armor is on the BB I'm playing, and do my best to turn the ship into the torps (when I can't avoid them) so that they hit as much of my bulge as possible. Maybe consider using Target Acquisition if you're using concealment currently. As a BB brawler you will be spotted 90% of the time anyway. And that extra torp spotting is much more useful when brawling. But this comes at a cost at higher tiers where concealment will keep you from getting focused on.  For commander skills, I've noticed using superintendent (along with the flag that give an extra 20% HP heal per use) made a nice positive impact on by ability to soak up damage and brawl better. And, this goes without saying, be sure to se the repair party 2 and damage control party 2. It makes a big difference when it comes to brawling. I noticed my results got significantly better when I learned to turn away (or take cover behind an island- this is more rare though as you become a sitting duck to torps if you aren't moving) and use the time to heal up, to only go right back in to brawl again. Another tip I learned is to save your spotting planes for when you know there's a DD close by and you're in front. The plane will spot torps if it flies over them. The next patch we are going to get two planes for spotting instead of one!
 

Also, the higher you go in tier BBs, the better and more dangerous the torp players become. For that reason, I usually turn around and away from any smoke, or I make a choice to slow down to avoid anticipated torps, or speed up depending on the situation (if there's cover behind islands I will speed up. If there is no cover and the enemy team out guns me then I will slow down or double back all together). I've found I do best as a brawling BB by playing support during the first half of the game and then getting very aggressive the second half by leading the pack and sucking up damage. As a big [edited]battleship, you are pretty much committed to the side of the map you go for in the beginning. This could be a massive mistake if you end up without support of your DDs and CCs, and are headed straight for the main force of the enemy team. This happens a lot to me when I set full sail in the beginning of the match where in there are no other BBs with me. So, in these situations, I play support and wait to see where the enemy and teammates are heading. Then I head in full force and start the pain train.
 

As for other players being behind you. Well, the best way to deal with this is to either slow down or do a full 360 (without showing your broadside at the wrong time).  But really, if you're not in front by at least 6-12 KM  of your support, then you're not brawling.


 

I personally prefer the Bismark over the Tirpitz. Reason being is the secondaries (with secondary build) and consumable Hydro acoustic (to counter DDs in smoke). I never was one for torps, so take this with a grain of salt, but I fear the sight of a Bismark far more than the Tirpitz, even in my Yamato. A Tirpitz with a  secondary build will get demolished by my Yamato every time, long before your 6km torps can be effective, but I am much more cautious about brawling against a Bismarck secondary build. Secondaries are crucial to a BB brawler. I made the mistake of underestimating the HE flinging secondary capabilities of the Bismark once before, and I'll never do it again. With that said, I have noticed some serious OP play by a Tirpitz in the hands of a skilled player more than I see that of a Bismark. Fortunately for me, my Yamato punishes Tirpitz at longer range.


 

Edited by Snuggle_Foch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×