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ShiroDNL

#1 Worldwide Shiratsuyu trigger discipline

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As the wise man said: "The best charioteers do not push ahead. The best fighters do not make displays of anger. The wisest antagonist is he who wins without engaging in battle."

 

8a6zDR3.jpg

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Now seriously, I'm a bit annoyed by this. I did what was necessary for us to win, got 126 of the 180 capture points and turned around a game that wasn't looking very promising, yet I lost money and got basically no XP. 

 

A base capture in standard battles has much more value than one in domination, it's the only objective in the game that can give a team instant victory. Shouldn't the rewards be more befiting? Yeah ok, the match took only 8 minutes and I just pressed W three times before alt tabbing to watch an AGDQ run, but doing some cheap damage isn't that hard either and I played the main objective of the mission, there's no reason for me to lose money on a game like this.

 

PS: And that's why I hate standard battles on Neighbors, even when I win...I LOSE.

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Same.  They seriously nerfed capping and capping exp for 3cap and utterly single Win the game capping for DDs.  They should seriously buff the exp earned when you win the game by not firing and being stealthy.  Also, this would incentive more defending and capping play to win the games, instead of potting and doing whatever the fk loses the game.  

 

Yet another DD nerf in the last 3 months. Economy. 

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Object of game is to shoot enemy ships and do damage and kill people and have fun.


Driving to cap and doing nothing but not being lit because enemy was busy fighting your team mates should pay out squat.  You basically ended the game when 90% of your team was there to fight and shoot.  Cap circle on Standard battle should not be active until the last 4 minutes or something..  I always hated that it WoT, and I hate it here.  I'd prefer standard battles just went out the window and stayed there.

 

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​why no torp spam with poi boat?

 

We are trying to reduce operational costs. It was either that or move at 1/4 of the speed for the entire game to save up on fuel.

 

Object of game is to shoot enemy ships and do damage and kill people and have fun.

 

Driving to cap and doing nothing but not being lit because enemy was busy fighting your team mates should pay out squat.  You basically ended the game when 90% of your team was there to fight and shoot.  Cap circle on Standard battle should not be active until the last 4 minutes or something..  I always hated that it WoT, and I hate it here.  I'd prefer standard battles just went out the window and stayed there.

 

That's not the main objective in a standard battle, it's just one of the means to reach said objectives. The winning conditions are to have more points or capture the enemy base as stated by the mode rules.

 

Yes I should be rewarded, this game is mostly about decision making, even when you are killing things it's most about your positioning and engagement conditions rather than your amazing aim and quick reflexes. What won that game was my decision making, had I not moved to the cap we would lose, 8 minutes in and we only had one BB left, that's how bad things were. And for me winning by wits is fun, I still recall the first time I found out how to beat GoGo on FFV and it was amazing even though I did nothing to beat him.

 

But I do agree that standard battles should go, at least on the larger maps. I can still see it being fun on maps that people have time to recover from the lapse of leaving their bases unprotected early on.

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Hahaha, I remember this one game I had in Standard Battle on my Bismarck once. I had a losing streak on the ship, and I was exasperated over my teams not  being very competent. So after getting on a SB match, I said screw this, I want a win. So I made a beeline for their cap, on my battleship. I did about half the HP on both this DD and cruiser that were near their base, as the rest of their team went all gung-ho for ours. 

 

Naturally, our team got obliterated, but since I went straight for their cap very early on, I managed to cap it before they did ours and won the game, even though I got paltry XP for the win lol

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So if the battle only lasted 8 minutes, and you spent 3 minutes of that capping, my guess is that you also did next to no spotting.  Also, if the battle lasted 8 minutes that means you would have had time to fire at least 54 torps, but because you are capping and actually avoiding any and all contact with the enemy you got a very minimal reward.  I have no issues with the game economy in this situation.

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Object of game is to shoot enemy ships and do damage and kill people and have fun.

 

 

And here I thought the only object of any game was to win. 

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Object of game is to shoot enemy ships and do damage and kill people and have fun.

 

Driving to cap and doing nothing but not being lit because enemy was busy fighting your team mates should pay out squat.  You basically ended the game when 90% of your team was there to fight and shoot.  Cap circle on Standard battle should not be active until the last 4 minutes or something..  I always hated that it WoT, and I hate it here.  I'd prefer standard battles just went out the window and stayed there.

 

 

Object of the game is to win. 

 

Whatever means you use to get there is completely up to the user. 

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Simple fix if WG is willing to do it... make the enemy base's cap value degrade over time. So at the very start it's worth an enormous amount of points, but toward the end of the time limit it's worth a normal amount. That way an early ninja win will pay out the way it should, and it would encourage more aggressive pushes too. 

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This is, at the end of the day, really just the result of the enemy team's inability to cover their own cap in the first 5 minutes of the game

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So if the battle only lasted 8 minutes, and you spent 3 minutes of that capping, my guess is that you also did next to no spotting.  Also, if the battle lasted 8 minutes that means you would have had time to fire at least 54 torps, but because you are capping and actually avoiding any and all contact with the enemy you got a very minimal reward.  I have no issues with the game economy in this situation.

 

I think the issue is the game not rewarding people for doing what is required to win the game, also if I can win without spotting ships or firing a single torp why should I risk a defeat to do any of that? No amount of torps that I throw in the water will stop my BBs from sailing broadsided to the enemy but a capture will win us the game even if everyone dies.

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I think the issue is the game not rewarding people for doing what is required to win the game, also if I can win without spotting ships or firing a single torp why should I risk a defeat to do any of that? No amount of torps that I throw in the water will stop my BBs from sailing broadsided to the enemy but a capture will win us the game even if everyone dies.

 

I disagree, the OP was rewarded for his game play...he received XP & credit for capping.  The issue is what should the reward be for capping.  While I do agree that the ultimate purpose/goal should be to win each battle, the question then comes what is the best approach.  In this instance, the enemy team had to be complete potatoes to loose your cap in 8 minutes, which means that no one turned around when they saw (assuming they noticed they were being capped), so I don't think that it is a viable method to win most Standard battles, and as such I do believe the game rewards players for doing what it takes to win a battle....deal damage to enemy ships, shoot down enemy planes, spot enemies for your captial ships, defend caps, and capture caps.  In this case the OP only did one thing...cap, and he was rewarded accordingly.  In the big scheme of Standard battles, my pet peeve is that sitting in the enemy cap and preventing them from gaining points nets you 0 XP, but in close Standard battles, denying the enemy 50-100 points while in their cap can be the difference between victory and defeat.

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I disagree, the OP was rewarded for his game play...he received XP & credit for capping.  The issue is what should the reward be for capping.  While I do agree that the ultimate purpose/goal should be to win each battle, the question then comes what is the best approach.  In this instance, the enemy team had to be complete potatoes to loose your cap in 8 minutes, which means that no one turned around when they saw (assuming they noticed they were being capped), so I don't think that it is a viable method to win most Standard battles, and as such I do believe the game rewards players for doing what it takes to win a battle....deal damage to enemy ships, shoot down enemy planes, spot enemies for your captial ships, defend caps, and capture caps.  In this case the OP only did one thing...cap, and he was rewarded accordingly.  In the big scheme of Standard battles, my pet peeve is that sitting in the enemy cap and preventing them from gaining points nets you 0 XP, but in close Standard battles, denying the enemy 50-100 points while in their cap can be the difference between victory and defeat.

 

See, that's the problem, I don't think it's not only a cap.

 

In standard battles if you capture the point you win the game, there's no logic for the rewards for captures to be the same as in domination where they only award you a few points overtime. And I also believe that stalling a point should give you some XP and credits, you not only prevent the enemy from earning points but you also cause a diversion on their formation, when I go for a cap like that I often see cruisers and DDs rushing back to the base while their BBs get overwhelmed in the front (btw I always go for the base cap in neighbors, usually there are people defending but more often than not I can get the middle control).

 

Edited by ShiroDNL

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they nerf'd capping XP a lot from what it used to give out.  this happened when they redid the reward for tanking dmg.       I still can get lot of xp for certain ships though.  

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Object of game is to shoot enemy ships and do damage and kill people and have fun.

 

Driving to cap and doing nothing but not being lit because enemy was busy fighting your team mates should pay out squat.  You basically ended the game when 90% of your team was there to fight and shoot.  Cap circle on Standard battle should not be active until the last 4 minutes or something..  I always hated that it WoT, and I hate it here.  I'd prefer standard battles just went out the window and stayed there.

 

 

The objective of the game is to win and one of the ways to win is to cap.... period!!!

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As the wise man said: "The best charioteers do not push ahead. The best fighters do not make displays of anger. The wisest antagonist is he who wins without engaging in battle."

 

 

 

 

Now seriously, I'm a bit annoyed by this. I did what was necessary for us to win, got 126 of the 180 capture points and turned around a game that wasn't looking very promising, yet I lost money and got basically no XP. 

 

A base capture in standard battles has much more value than one in domination, it's the only objective in the game that can give a team instant victory. Shouldn't the rewards be more befiting? Yeah ok, the match took only 8 minutes and I just pressed W three times before alt tabbing to watch an AGDQ run, but doing some cheap damage isn't that hard either and I played the main objective of the mission, there's no reason for me to lose money on a game like this.

 

PS: And that's why I hate standard battles on Neighbors, even when I win...I LOSE.

 

Indeed, capping wins -- and the other players will scream down heaven when DDs do not play the capping game. But the game does not always reflect that well.

 

There's also another little-understood bias against the pro-team capping-focused players in the World of Ships WRT rankings. I always assumed that the WTR rating that figures into so many players' sigs on the forum were based on a multitude of important factors such as capping. A

pointed out that this is not so.  Here is the WRT formula and explanation of it from their own site:

 

Component Weight
Average Damage 50.0%
Average Kills 30.0%
Win Rate 20.0%
Average BaseDefense 0.0%
Average Base Capture 0.0%

Ship and plane frags are weighted so that plane frags are more important for ships which on average kill more planes. On average, ship frags are 20 times more important than plane frags.

Base capture and defense points are no longer used for the rating because the data coming from WarGaming is inaccurate.

 

    Thus, DD mains like us who focus on capping for the team when we could be running up better damage and kills by not focusing on caps are actually having our efforts negatively impact our WTR, except in the way that it improves our win rate.  Oh well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Benedict99

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Indeed, capping wins -- and the other players will scream down heaven when DDs do not play the capping game. But the game does not always reflect that well.

 

There's also another little-understood bias against the pro-team capping-focused players in the World of Ships WRT rankings. I always assumed that the WTR rating that figures into so many players' sigs on the forum were based on a multitude of important factors such as capping. A

pointed out that this is not so.  Here is the WRT formula and explanation of it from their own site:

 

Component Weight
Average Damage 50.0%
Average Kills 30.0%
Win Rate 20.0%
Average BaseDefense 0.0%
Average Base Capture 0.0%

Ship and plane frags are weighted so that plane frags are more important for ships which on average kill more planes. On average, ship frags are 20 times more important than plane frags.

Base capture and defense points are no longer used for the rating because the data coming from WarGaming is inaccurate.

 

    Thus, DD mains like us who focus on capping for the team when we could be running up better damage and kills by not focusing on caps are actually having our efforts negatively impact our WTR, except in the way that it improves our win rate.  Oh well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is why WTR is nothing more than a worthless Joke of a rating.

 

 

 

 

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Indeed, capping wins -- and the other players will scream down heaven when DDs do not play the capping game. But the game does not always reflect that well.

 

There's also another little-understood bias against the pro-team capping-focused players in the World of Ships WRT rankings. I always assumed that the WTR rating that figures into so many players' sigs on the forum were based on a multitude of important factors such as capping. A

pointed out that this is not so.  Here is the WRT formula and explanation of it from their own site:

 

Component Weight
Average Damage 50.0%
Average Kills 30.0%
Win Rate 20.0%
Average BaseDefense 0.0%
Average Base Capture 0.0%

Ship and plane frags are weighted so that plane frags are more important for ships which on average kill more planes. On average, ship frags are 20 times more important than plane frags.

Base capture and defense points are no longer used for the rating because the data coming from WarGaming is inaccurate.

 

    Thus, DD mains like us who focus on capping for the team when we could be running up better damage and kills by not focusing on caps are actually having our efforts negatively impact our WTR, except in the way that it improves our win rate.  Oh well.

 

 

 

 

This is why WTR is nothing more than a worthless Joke of a rating.

 

 

 

     I agree, there are definitely ways the WTR rating could be improved.  And lately, my WTR stats have simply been in error on a few occasions.  In Warships Today's defence, though:

 

A) Although they have advertising, my impression is that it's a small volunteer service.  Speaking for my own self, I'm always willing to cut a ton of slack for that.

 

B) Warships Today has expressed more than once (including the quote I posted) that many of their challenges and errors reflect data errors from WG.  Given WG's tendency to flat-out declare that black is white in regards other WoWS problems, I find it easy to believe Warships Today in this regard.

 

 

 

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