Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Peregrinas

"Zao is fine"

102 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

873
[SCCC]
Members
3,177 posts
12,828 battles

Every time I try to point out that Zao is OP, someone always has to chime in that "no, it is not." What part of 9k damage per HE salvo, near guaranteed fire per salvo, and nearly impossible to beat armor screams "fine"?

 

Example from a game I just played in my Tirpitz. I ended up 1-on-1 with the enemy Zao with some intervention from a teammate to help me against the Zao towards the end. 

 60dAeRq.jpg

 

PFf0tVf.jpg

 

Imc6DVU.jpg

 

I had the opportunity to fire three full salvos against a flat broadside, one salvo against a somewhat angled side (which bounced all of my shells by the way), and a few more salvos at it nearly bow-on (with some zero-damage penetrations, some over-pens, and of course some bounces). Result? 1 citadel and 24k damage. I pushed into secondary range in the meantime to get almost 8k secondary damage and they ran aground which allowed me to get one torpedo hit before finishing him off with my main battery. All while the Zao proceeded to do more damage to me, dealing upwards of 6k damage per HE salvo even on my bow when I was bow-on.

 

And this is not a one-time occurrence. I frequently run away from Zaos with my Hindenburg because I know just how ridiculous their armor and HE is. Even broadside Zaos at close range are nearly immune to citadel hits while their HE salvos are more than capable of dealing upwards of 9k damage against me, plus one or two fires per salvo.

  • Cool 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,795
[SYN]
[SYN]
Alpha Tester, Beta Testers
30,523 posts
5,705 battles

Only people who say Zao is fine want to keep the stealth firing and the insane guns that are a flight of fantasy.

  • Cool 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,652
Alpha Tester, Members, In AlfaTesters, Beta Testers
12,401 posts

I thought the whole "Zao is fine" thing was a joke.... It's been borderline OP since it was named Senjo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
672 posts
2,946 battles

Just look at the 2.0 changes to Inertial Fuzes for HE.  It went from a 'meh' skill to one that looks quite strong.  Will be very interesting to see how this affects balance with the HE spammers, especially since fire prevention was moved to T4 and premium consumables are being nerfed.

 

 

Edited by SCygnus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,116
[BOSS]
Beta Testers
2,757 posts
13,753 battles

I don't think it's fair to compare it to a ship two tiers lower personally.  A lot of work went into grinding out a tier 10 and it should be significantly strong against anything two tiers below it.

 

With that said I just recently bought the zao and while I don't have a ton of games under my belt in it I can see just how deadly it is.  I don't feel it's any less deadly than the Moskva though, although different play style.

 

The zao has been nerfed  once already and I think it will be hurt if they do indeed remove stealth firing. Personally I think there is so much ouch at tier 10 I'm not sure how you pick one ship to kill and not a few others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
712
[YIKES]
WoWS Community Contributors, In AlfaTesters
1,090 posts
20,804 battles

Reasons why Zao is broken:

1. Twelve extremely easy to use guns with insane fire starting, good velocity, and high alpha

2. Good rudder shift, a low detection range, and ridiculously good armor (that doesn't get overmatched by 16 inch guns, except for bow/stern extremities) combine to give it disgustingly good survivability despite the low HP pool.

3. Torpedoes, while having poor arcs, are extremely good to have when you find yourself in those oh sh- moments next to a battleship.

 

I'd love to see it get hit with some kind of nerf.

 

Moskva is just as, if not more OP. Gets insane AP, great HE, can't get bow overmatched, etc.

 

False. Moskva can get bow overmatched - you're thinking of her 50mm middle deck section, which functionally has 0 difference to Zao's armor except when facing Yamato guns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
873
[SCCC]
Members
3,177 posts
12,828 battles

Moskva is just as, if not more OP. Gets insane AP, great HE, can't get bow overmatched, etc.

 

Does that make the Moskva go Beyond OP ?  and the Minotaur borderline OP ?

 

Moskva and Minotaur are fine because they are actually prone to taking big citadel hits (my Hindenburg has no trouble erasing full health broadside Minotaurs), whereas Zao has insanely good armor to go along with the insane guns.

 

I don't think it's fair to compare it to a ship two tiers lower personally.  A lot of work went into grinding out a tier 10 and it should be significantly strong against anything two tiers below it.

 

With that said I just recently bought the zao and while I don't have a ton of games under my belt in it I can see just how deadly it is.  I don't feel it's any less deadly than the Moskva though, although different play style.

 

The zao has been nerfed  once already and I think it will be hurt if they do indeed remove stealth firing. Personally I think there is so much ouch at tier 10 I'm not sure how you pick one ship to kill and not a few others.

 

Whether I'm in my tier 8 BB or my tier 10 Hindenburg, the problems are still the same: Zao cannot be punished for going broadside and the Zao's HE is ludicrously powerful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,639
[WOLF1]
Members
9,915 posts
14,398 battles

Every time I try to point out that Zao is OP, someone always has to chime in that "no, it is not." What part of 9k damage per HE salvo, near guaranteed fire per salvo, and nearly impossible to beat armor screams "fine"?

 

Example from a game I just played in my Tirpitz. I ended up 1-on-1 with the enemy Zao with some intervention from a teammate to help me against the Zao towards the end. 

 60dAeRq.jpg

 

PFf0tVf.jpg

 

Imc6DVU.jpg

 

I had the opportunity to fire three full salvos against a flat broadside, one salvo against a somewhat angled side (which bounced all of my shells by the way), and a few more salvos at it nearly bow-on (with some zero-damage penetrations, some over-pens, and of course some bounces). Result? 1 citadel and 24k damage. I pushed into secondary range in the meantime to get almost 8k secondary damage and they ran aground which allowed me to get one torpedo hit before finishing him off with my main battery. All while the Zao proceeded to do more damage to me, dealing upwards of 6k damage per HE salvo even on my bow when I was bow-on.

 

And this is not a one-time occurrence. I frequently run away from Zaos with my Hindenburg because I know just how ridiculous their armor and HE is. Even broadside Zaos at close range are nearly immune to citadel hits while their HE salvos are more than capable of dealing upwards of 9k damage against me, plus one or two fires per salvo.

but the Hindy has a slightly higher ROF.... and really decent chance for fire with her HE... Yeah the Zao is a fire breathing dragon... BUT.... you might be surprised what a Zao will do if you are not afraid of her in your Hindy...,.. AND if you can get the Zao to chase you>?>> Kite ship is AWESOME at burning chasing ships....

I have not played my Zao since getting my Hindy, which I actually play less now that I got a MOSKVA (which, see above for fighting zaos.... Citadel?? Yeas please from almost every angle the Zao gives me   )

But yeah the Zao is a beast... BUT knowing how to play her great, means you can sink her a bit better with another ship....

Yes best to run... but, never give up,.,.,, never surrender!!!!

I have had great luck fighting them in both named cruisers,,, Mos is better at fighting them bow on,.,,... Hindy is best running and shooting, just my experience....they tend to start running when they see I wont.....

Edited by pmgaudio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,323
[NERO]
Members
3,630 posts

I pretty much avoid Zao without support if I can manage it. I just have to say "Yay fire!" and laugh when fighting one in Yamato. If you can't delete it, it's going to set your whole deck ablaze while you reload, and I'm pretty sure I failed to pen its bow before. Which I didn't think was a thing that happened to Yamato guns. 

 

One on one fighting a Zao boils down to how much RNGzus wants my shells to meet its citadel. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
2,855 posts
9,043 battles

Even a minotaur does 9k Salvos at any range, and that's with a 3 second reload. You wouldn't beat any good cruiser player 1v1 in a BB at T10. Also correct me if I'm wrong, but other than Moskva all T10 cruisers can stealth fire. The only thing that makes Zao better than the rest of the T10 cruisers is the fire chance. 

 

 I'm pretty sure I failed to pen its bow before. Which I didn't think was a thing that happened to Yamato guns. 

 

Even a T1 can bounce Yamato shells, Yamato doesn't overmatch everything

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,547
[-K--]
Beta Testers
4,566 posts

Don't worry, with my luck it'll probably get nerfed into the ground the day before I unlock it (and I'm trying to grind up to the Zao first of the tier 10s)

 

It  wont get changed.   By server stats its not much higher than 2 other  T10 CA's.  It was already reduced to 40k HP
Edited by Spyde

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,323
[NERO]
Members
3,630 posts

 

Even a T1 can bounce Yamato shells, Yamato doesn't overmatch everything

 

So the people complaining that it does are wrong. Okay, good to know. I've just so very rarely seen a bounce on anything less than a fellow BB. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,732
[-KIA-]
Members
5,194 posts
13,774 battles

Moskva is just as, if not more OP. Gets insane AP, great HE, can't get bow overmatched, etc.

Moskva is worse. Bow camping all day.

Does that make the Moskva go Beyond OP ?  and the Minotaur borderline OP ?

 

It can be bow overmatched, by battleships.  It's AP bounces more frequently than people get sent to the gulag.  It only seems OP because people camp and snipe, and Russian cruisers do that best.  I play the Moskva very frequently, and I just cringe every time watch people run away from me.

 

This kind of camping and sniping meta is exactly why Russian cruisers do well, they suck on the Russian server where everyone brawls.  

People think Moskva is more overpowered because it's Russian.  They don't know the ship's playstyle and assume the ship is overpowered because the server meta favors it.  STOP CAMPING THEN.  Moskva can't brawl for crap, and it get demolished when focused fired.

Edited by ValkyrWarframe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,594
[-KIA-]
Banned
9,382 posts
21,083 battles

Moskva is just as, if not more OP. Gets insane AP, great HE, can't get bow overmatched, etc.

Moskva is worse. Bow camping all day.

Moskva gets bow-overmatched in theory, and in practice at 12km and below.  Nothing vital will get hit as a result, but the 25mm sections are thick enough to trigger normal-pens even when hit from an angle, unlike Zao where you can shoot the front of a directly bow-on one and get nothing but overpens.:sceptic:  Moskva also gets absolutely destroyed by battleship HE: it can damage the main turrets with its blast radius if you hit the deck, and for their thick frontal armor they have pathetic amounts of module HP.

 

Unlike Zao, you can also bow-on rush a Moskva to dislodge him from his nest because it doesn't have torpedoes.  Whereas an angled Zao forces you to kite him because of those 20 F3s hidden in the tail stinger.

Every time I try to point out that Zao is OP, someone always has to chime in that "no, it is not." What part of 9k damage per HE salvo, near guaranteed fire per salvo, and nearly impossible to beat armor screams "fine"?

 

I had the opportunity to fire three full salvos against a flat broadside, one salvo against a somewhat angled side (which bounced all of my shells by the way), and a few more salvos at it nearly bow-on (with some zero-damage penetrations, some over-pens, and of course some bounces). Result? 1 citadel and 24k damage. I pushed into secondary range in the meantime to get almost 8k secondary damage and they ran aground which allowed me to get one torpedo hit before finishing him off with my main battery. All while the Zao proceeded to do more damage to me, dealing upwards of 6k damage per HE salvo even on my bow when I was bow-on.

What's really sad about that is the Zao in question exceeded his average damage in the ship with HE hits on you alone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
2,255 posts

Well it's got the lowest HP, BB grade turret traverse, turns like a whale, longest reload?, worst aa?... Heck I seen a DM take out a Tirpits with AP yesterday at 4km range... It was insane. You can't do that with a Zao. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,594
[-KIA-]
Banned
9,382 posts
21,083 battles

You can't do that with a Zao. 

Yeah, because your 10 76-knot, 8km rocket torpedoes with forward-firing arcs get him way before he gets within 4km.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
2,255 posts

Yeah, because your 10 76-knot, 8km rocket torpedoes with forward-firing arcs get him way before he gets within 4km.

 

That right there is a joke. They are not forward firing. You have a small window to even use them. Not to mention you have to give tons of broadside and your citadel sticks 10 miles out of the water.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11,226
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
28,244 posts
24,663 battles

Well it's got the lowest HP, BB grade turret traverse, turns like a whale, longest reload?, worst aa?... Heck I seen a DM take out a Tirpits with AP yesterday at 4km range... It was insane. You can't do that with a Zao. 

 

At that range, that Tirpitz player needs to sell their ship.  That is beyond disgraceful, especially at that range using Tirpitz against a torpedo-less Cruiser.  A torpedo-less Cruiser at that short range is food on a silver platter to any BB.
Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
115 posts
6,452 battles

The only change I would make to it is the armor. Everything else, even the stealth fire I can deal with, but the amount of shells this ship bounces when I finally get it into my sights is absurd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
2,255 posts

 

At that range, that Tirpitz player needs to sell their ship.  That is beyond disgraceful, especially at that range using Tirpitz against a torpedo-less Cruiser.

 

That DM player was amazing. Dodge Tirpitz torps too.... Doing 10-15k hits with AP even with the Tirpits at 30 degrees. Blam blam blam... Full HP to dead in like 60 seconds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×