Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
waffles1945

Phalanx guns on the Iowas

22 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

151
[PNP]
[PNP]
Alpha Tester
1,033 posts
3,578 battles

Does anyone know why the USS New Jersey is the only one of the four Iowa class battleship to retain her 20mm phalanxs and harpoon launchers after her decommissioning and transformation into a museum ship

 

And how come the rest of the Iowas lost their phalanxes and harpoon launchers?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,918
[WOLF1]
Beta Testers
16,276 posts
23,606 battles

No Idea, you could probably check out the museum web sites. Considering when they were decommissioned I would not be surprised if those weapon systems were pulled and reused.

Edited by paradat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,889
[HINON]
Members
7,797 posts
2,144 battles

Does anyone know why the USS New Jersey is the only one of the four Iowa class battleship to retain her 20mm phalanxs and harpoon launchers after her decommissioning and transformation into a museum ship

 

And how come the rest of the Iowas lost their phalanxes and harpoon launchers?

 

 

Iirc, it was to present them in their historical, WWII state, which is what most people would think if them as.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
151
[PNP]
[PNP]
Alpha Tester
1,033 posts
3,578 battles

 

Iirc, it was to present them in their historical, WWII state, which is what most people would think if them as.

 

But why would they keep the armored tomahawk box launchers on them? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51
[JASH]
Members
189 posts
5,913 battles

 

But why would they keep the armored tomahawk box launchers on them?

 

Because New Jersey probably wanted to make theirs unique from the other 3?  I think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
554
[ONE38]
Members
3,782 posts
14,818 battles

I was on board USS Iowa in 2015.  She has Phalanx gun, Harpoon and Tomahawk launcher hardware in place.

 

eOkgMrn.jpg

 

 

Edited by lemekillmister

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
520
[-FBS-]
Members
2,646 posts
4,290 battles

 

But why would they keep the armored tomahawk box launchers on them? 

 

Because Real Life is worse at balancing than WG. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
151
[PNP]
[PNP]
Alpha Tester
1,033 posts
3,578 battles

I was on board USS Iowa in 2015.  She has Phalanx gun, Harpoon and Tomahawk launcher hardware in place.

 

eOkgMrn.jpg

 

 

 

According to the people who were in charge of restoring the Iowa, those are all sheet metal mockups. None of those are actually real.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
554
[ONE38]
Members
3,782 posts
14,818 battles

 

According to the people who were in charge of restoring the Iowa, those are all sheet metal mockups. None of those are actually real.

 

 

I've seen the units up close myself. They're basically real housing, albeit with disabled or gutted internals, not full sheet metal mockups. Some odd missing pieces were likely replaced with locally fabricated metal mockup type replacements, just like the bloomer bags of the 16" guns were.  I very mush suspect the same is true on the USS New Jersey.

 

Regardless of whomever those people are with regard to Iowa's restoration program, somewhere in the chain between what's actually there, those people and you, I suspect there's probably some kind of understanding.  

 

 

Edited by lemekillmister

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,252
[NYAAR]
[NYAAR]
Members
4,785 posts
20,704 battles

Does anyone know why the USS New Jersey is the only one of the four Iowa class battleship to retain her 20mm phalanxs and harpoon launchers after her decommissioning and transformation into a museum ship

 

And how come the rest of the Iowas lost their phalanxes and harpoon launchers?

 

 

 

Iirc, it was to present them in their historical, WWII state, which is what most people would think if them as.

 

 

But why would they keep the armored tomahawk box launchers on them? 

 

 

According to the people who were in charge of restoring the Iowa, those are all sheet metal mockups. None of those are actually real.

 

 

When a ship is in the mothball fleet, they will typically remove useful equipment to help support units in service. The Phalanx CIWS and Harpoon launchers (as well as radars, computers and such) were likely removed to be placed on other ships. What remains from the Facebook photo's posted by the Pacific Battleship Center of the USS Iowa looks like sheet metal copies, and/or stripped out equipment.

 

If anything still had actual equipment on board, I would think it would be New Jersey and Wisconson. Both were the last ships that I am aware of that were 'maintained' by the NFS fleet. I also believe there is an agreement in place that nothing can be changed on either New Jersey or Wisconson as they are considered 'assets' to National Defense. But it has been a number of years since I read that and it may have changed.

 

The armored box Tomahawl Launchers remained as there was no use for them elsewhere and these specific launchers were built with the Iowa's 16in guns in mind. By the end of the Gulfwar, the box launchers were no longer needed for the Tomahawk. They now use the Mk41 system VLS system on Cruisers and Destroyers. In fact, only the mk41 VLS Ageis Cruisers remain in service, the rest are also in the mothball fleet.

 

Sadly, even if the launchers, CIWS, and the armored boxes were removed, they have changed too much to be considered in their 'historical WWII form'. USS Missouri has even lost her status as a historical landmark/vessel becuase of the changes. This isn't to say it's not a Historical ship, but in the view of the Historical Society, the changes to the 'fabric' of the ship no longer make her the same. It's kinda like how Soldier Field in Chicago is no longer a Historical Landmark post renovation.

Edited by Lord_Slayer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,661
Alpha Tester, Members, In AlfaTesters, Beta Testers
12,413 posts

I was on board USS Iowa in 2015.  She has Phalanx gun, Harpoon and Tomahawk launcher hardware in place.

 

eOkgMrn.jpg

 

 

 

I've been to the Iowa as well, the phalanx are definitely  replicas. The barrels look like they're welded to a metal box or they're cemented and sticking out of concrete. Pretty sure the harpoon/tomahawks are gutted equipment though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
672 posts
2,946 battles

Phalanx mounts may have been needed on other ships.  Armored box launchers are generally not used by the USN anymore so no need for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
16 posts
3,324 battles

CIWS are not to hard to upgrade from Block 0 to Block 1. All the BB CIWS were Block 0. However, all the modern ships use Block 2 which allow for surface engagements. Almost completely different system and while the outer radar dome and mount is the same, internals and barrels are discarded for upgrades.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
672 posts
2,946 battles

I thought this thread was about getting Phalanx AA guns on the Iowas ingame.  Disappointed...

 

I know, right?  Maybe if we lobby hard enough we can have Iowa given a fantasy refit with the 3"/50.  :popcorn:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
554
[ONE38]
Members
3,782 posts
14,818 battles

 

I've been to the Iowa as well, the phalanx are definitely  replicas. The barrels look like they're welded to a metal box or they're cemented and sticking out of concrete. Pretty sure the harpoon/tomahawks are gutted equipment though.

 

I don't know what your definition of replica is. Replica to me means 100% non-original assembly of imitation parts. Most of the visible external parts, housings, etc. for the Phalanx guns, minus their functional internal mechanical parts, would be original, thus why the barrels are affixed to empty metal boxes. Nothing about that is inconsistent with what I've already said. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,661
Alpha Tester, Members, In AlfaTesters, Beta Testers
12,413 posts

 

I don't know what your definition of replica is. Replica to me means 100% non-original assembly of imitation parts. Most of the visible external parts, housings, etc. for the Phalanx guns, minus their functional internal mechanical parts, would be original, thus why the barrels are affixed to empty metal boxes. Nothing about that is inconsistent with what I've already said. 

 

I definitely could have worded my post better and should have said not replicas. I thought i had included a not but I should have proofread before posting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,646
[PVE]
[PVE]
Members
11,838 posts
30,521 battles

No Idea, you could probably check out the museum web sites. Considering when they were decommissioned I would not be surprised if those weapon systems were pulled and reused.

 

I think you are correct on this. Makes tons of sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
516
[HEROS]
-Members-
1,462 posts
5,897 battles

 

 

 

 

When a ship is in the mothball fleet, they will typically remove useful equipment to help support units in service. The Phalanx CIWS and Harpoon launchers (as well as radars, computers and such) were likely removed to be placed on other ships. What remains from the Facebook photo's posted by the Pacific Battleship Center of the USS Iowa looks like sheet metal copies, and/or stripped out equipment.

 

If anything still had actual equipment on board, I would think it would be New Jersey and Wisconson. Both were the last ships that I am aware of that were 'maintained' by the NFS fleet. I also believe there is an agreement in place that nothing can be changed on either New Jersey or Wisconson as they are considered 'assets' to National Defense. But it has been a number of years since I read that and it may have changed.

 

The armored box Tomahawl Launchers remained as there was no use for them elsewhere and these specific launchers were built with the Iowa's 16in guns in mind. By the end of the Gulfwar, the box launchers were no longer needed for the Tomahawk. They now use the Mk41 system VLS system on Cruisers and Destroyers. In fact, only the mk41 VLS Ageis Cruisers remain in service, the rest are also in the mothball fleet.

 

Sadly, even if the launchers, CIWS, and the armored boxes were removed, they have changed too much to be considered in their 'historical WWII form'. USS Missouri has even lost her status as a historical landmark/vessel becuase of the changes. This isn't to say it's not a Historical ship, but in the view of the Historical Society, the changes to the 'fabric' of the ship no longer make her the same. It's kinda like how Soldier Field in Chicago is no longer a Historical Landmark post renovation.

 

New Jersey was originally planned to be on the reserve until the Navy could prove they had sufficient ground support for amphibious landings... New Jersey and Wisconsin were to be on that list.  New Jersey was replaced with Iowa, even after the turret explosion, due to the condition of the ships and politics.  My understanding was New Jersey, having fought in every war since WWII, was in worse shape than Iowa was even with the damage caused by the turret explosion.  That and a certain someone wanted New Jersey for a museum ship...

 

Here is the excerpt from the Wikipedia article for USS Iowa:

 

Section 1011 of the National Defense Authorization Act of 1996 required the United States Navy to reinstate to the Naval Vessel Register two of the Iowa-class battleships that had been struck by the Navy in 1995; these ships were to be maintained in the United States Navy reserve fleets (or "mothball fleet"). The Navy was to ensure that both of the reinstated battleships were in good condition and could be reactivated for use in the Marine Corps' amphibious operations.[50] Due to Iowa’s damaged turret, the Navy selected New Jersey for placement into the mothball fleet, even though the training mechanisms on New Jersey's 16-inch (406 mm) guns had been welded down. The cost to fix New Jersey was considered less than the cost to fix Iowa;[20] as a result, New Jersey and Wisconsin were reinstated to the Naval Vessel Register and placed back in the reserve fleet.[50]

New Jersey remained there until the Strom Thurmond National Defense Authorization Act of 1999 required the United States Secretary of the Navy to list and maintain Iowa and Wisconsin on the Naval Vessel Register. The Act also required the Secretary of the Navy to strike New Jersey from the Naval Vessel Register and transfer the battleship to a not-for-profit entity in accordance with section 7306 of Title 10, United States Code. It also required the transferee to locate the battleship in the State of New Jersey.[51] The Navy made the switch in January 1999, allowing New Jersey to open as a museum ship in her namesake state.[52]

On 17 March 2006, the Secretary of the Navy exercised his authority to strike Iowa and Wisconsin from the NVR

 

 

Edited by UrPeaceKeeper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
554
[ONE38]
Members
3,782 posts
14,818 battles

Does anyone know why the USS New Jersey is the only one of the four Iowa class battleship to retain her 20mm phalanxs and harpoon launchers after her decommissioning and transformation into a museum ship

 

And how come the rest of the Iowas lost their phalanxes and harpoon launchers?

 

 

Back to the top for clarity about what you're talking about here... To begin with, you do understand that those weapons systems are all gutted, plugged or in some way disabled; essentially empty bodies or housings, right?  That's the reasonable belief that I've figured we've all been operating under throughout this discussion.
Edited by lemekillmister

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×