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PTX_007_03C

So much effort for this...

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XKhTLUj.png

 

Before I even start let me prepare.

 

7TxPCdQ.gif

 

Ok, so was this thing supposed to be good at something? I was expecting actual battleship guns with a lower reload and more accuracy as a trade off for being an Ishizuchi in the tier 6. Yet the best I got from a broadsided Nurn 10km away were 2.5K penetrations, I hit the same salvo at the same distance with my Kirov any day of the week and I get 1~3 citadel hits for sure.

 

After 5 freaking games without hitting a single citadel I'm pretty sure my Graf Spee is cursed, but at least it's pretty and the Haifuri skins are very cool.

 

Now someone tell me that the Shinonome is worth the effort.

 

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I just played the first game in her and got 3 citadels. Bad luck, mate, just bad luck.

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Alpha Tester
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Well counter to what most people will tell you, out right annihilating things with large caliber guns is about the same as annihilating things out right with torps. Yea you might get lucky once and a while, but more often then not you will be saying wthat you shots.

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I just steamed around in my first game and it felt okay to me.  I got some citadels.  Come back to it another day.

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It's not just a citadel farmer, the individual shells pack enough pnch to generate decent damage on regular pens. In fact, unless your target is fully parallel to you, or you're at short range, then citadels can be hard to rack up. Also, are you targeting BBs, CLs, or DDs? The Spee can rough up CAs and BBs very well, but it sucks against Destroyers.

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It's guns are bigger than the Kirov so easier to overpen, probably need to aim just a bit lower to slow them down more.

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Now someone tell me that the Shinonome is worth the effort.

 

It has the best guns out of all the T6 IJN DDs. It still has 9 torps, albeit with slightly lower damage, although the speed is faster. So I think it's still going to be a pretty decent ship. 

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Played 3 games, I found out that survivability is not a problem for Spee. However, sometimes it is hard to carry a game in Spee due to the lack of continuous damage out put. Dealing damage in Spee will be very difficult if ur enemy CAs played very smart.

As for Shinonome​, not that great, but there is no time limit on it, so u can do the quest slowly. 

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Take her to coop - or get a training room set up... and pound away with her until you know precisely how to aim her guns. I like her a great deal... maybe you might also want to read littlewhitemouse/lert review of her on the forums. 

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It's not just a citadel farmer, the individual shells pack enough pnch to generate decent damage on regular pens. In fact, unless your target is fully parallel to you, or you're at short range, then citadels can be hard to rack up. Also, are you targeting BBs, CLs, or DDs? The Spee can rough up CAs and BBs very well, but it sucks against Destroyers.

 

My main problem is that the damage from penetrations is pitiful, 2.5K pens just aren't enough with the limitation of 6 guns (3 most of the times) and 19 seconds reload. Also the armor just isn't there for you to endure the retaliation from battleships, most of the times it feels like you are hitting BBs with a flick in the forehead and they kick your chin in return, it's lovely.

 

It's guns are bigger than the Kirov so easier to overpen, probably need to aim just a bit lower to slow them down more.

 

That's not the case for the salvos I'm hitting around 13km or so. I'm hitting my shots, they just don't penetrate.

 

And yeah, Shinonome will take a lot of time. Btw, what's the best ship to take engines out? I'm thinking DD harassment with the Thrashcan, anyone knows if spamming cruisers with Yamato's HE works? I also own the Roon and Takao, Shokaku soon.

 

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It, to me, seems a good support Cruiser to BBs. Let the big fat BBs soak the damage as you pummel the enemy BBs and Cruisers with the 11 inch guns. The damage output is low, yes, because of the short amount of guns (only 6) with poor dispersion (what, 240?). However, it is usually very consistent, and good with HE. 

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Sounds to me, despite all the information out there, you had unreasonable expectations on what the Spee would offer.

Watching/Reading any one of the at least half dozen reviews I can think of off the top of my head would have cleared up all your notions of the Spee's, guns, reload, accuracy, damage, armor, etc.

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Sounds like user Error

                                                                             W/R           Dmg          xp     K/D      Shp                    srv                              WTR

Admiral Graf Spee      6  CA/CL Germany   4    100.00%      61,525      1,983    ∞       2.3        1.8      100%      32%     7%    1,928

 

 

Loving this ship so far

Edited by Spyde

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Sounds to me, despite all the information out there, you had unreasonable expectations on what the Spee would offer.

Watching/Reading any one of the at least half dozen reviews I can think of off the top of my head would have cleared up all your notions of the Spee's, guns, reload, accuracy, damage, armor, etc.

 

I don't really search for reviews, watching the armada videos is the most I do.

 

The fact is that Graf Spee guns aren't impressive for tier 6. I'm not saying that they don't work, but that was supposed to be the main attractive on the ship and they are just...ok.

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I wrote this in another Spee thread, it's become one of my favorites quickly since I got it (Paid for it)

 

Take all of this with a grain of salt, I find myself gravitating towards the odd ships that not everyone seems to enjoy.  Atlanta, Yubari, Emden and the Campbeltown for instance I enjoy immensely.  That all said...

 

 

 

Spee is a ship with an identity crisis that requires a different play style from many of the other ships you may have sailed, bought, or fought so far.  She's a Cruiser, with battleship guns, she's a cruiser, with cruiser armor, she's a cruiser, with...  While I won't say battleship speed, she definitely doesn't have cruiser speed.  She's an odd little hybrid of identity crisis.  Going in and playing her like a regular cruiser will not work well.  While conversely going in and thinking your a battleship will definitely not end well.

 

 

 

When it comes to her gunnery you must remember that they're the Scharnhorst guns, with one less turret.  So all tips for the Scharnhorst apply to the Spee.  Angled BB's and long range angled cruisers require hits to the superstructure to do damage unless you can crash it through the deck and into the soft insides.  High Explosive ammo will usually work in a situation like this better.  What I'll often do is send a salvo or two of HE, light the fires, then switch to the AP for anywhere from 2k-8k damage rolls.

 

 

 

Broadside cruisers however, that's where the Spee will shine.  Learning the guns and the aim on her and while not all shells will hit, if doing your part at least 2 of the 6, maybe 3 or 4 at longer ranges will hit.  And while her dispersion is bad, when compared to other same tier cruisers, she seems (To me at least) to group better then the Scharnhorst at range.  One shell will usually find a citadel while the others will either pen/overpen or splash.  On a 6 shell salvo, 1-3 hits seem to be my average.  And as some battleships have found as they ignored me for "Heavier targets" a Spee raining AP into the superstructure at range will happily knock 3,000 damage or more and with the reload it can add up quickly while an enemy BB player is focused on a bigger threat.

 

 

 

I think I've been doing decently well in the Spee, and it's because I've been playing her in, what I think, is the way a commerce raider would be played in Warships.  I'm not going to lead the pack, I'm not going to push and stand toe to toe with an enemy Battleship, or even close in and slug it out with something like a Cleveland.  Beginning of the match I stick to islands, keep my line of sight to the enemy battlegroup blocked, lob shells over islands and when I get spotted try to blend in and not stick out, hoping the enemy sees some of my teammates as an easier target then myself.  I tend to hold fire, waiting for the opportune moment, a cruiser sailing broadside that doesn't know I'm staring at him, or moving my way to the flank of an enemy battleship who has to keep his bow pointed at the bigger threat in front of him so I can pepper his upper belt line with AP and HE.

 

 

 

I don't use defensive fire, opting instead for superior German Hydro, and while the Spee may not excel at an anti-destroyer role, she's certainly capable of it.  Now the guns are inaccurate compared to other DD hunting cruisers, and the reload is muuuuch longer then many will be comfortable with, but once you manage to get the hang of the aim and the leading, what she lacks in shells on target, she more then makes up for with damage per shell.  You're not gonna land 80% of the shells like the Shchors, or the Nurnberg, on an enemy DD.  You'll land one.  Maybe two, but the caliber and punch they pack make up for it on a think skinned target like the DD.  Module damage, fires, a lucky RNG roll will ruin a scrambling DD's day.  But keep them at an amrs length.  5k and more, and again this is due to the rather lackluster rudder shift you're going to find in the Spee, add in the poor turning radius and it's a fine line between "sucessful DD hunt" and "Mistake"

 

 

 

Finally, you can't forget the torpedo's on this ship.  Insane firing arcs, and for a German Cruiser, insane range.  8km instead of 6km which is enough to catch most people off guard.  Don't have to turn TOO much to fire them off, but the forward firing angle you do fire, will open you up to citadels by some of the larger guns in the game. 

 

 

 

But that's just my two cents on it so far.  I'm having a blast with it.

 

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I don't really search for reviews, watching the armada videos is the most I do.

 

The fact is that Graf Spee guns aren't impressive for tier 6. I'm not saying that they don't work, but that was supposed to be the main attractive on the ship and they are just...ok.

 

Well, a lot of community contributors, for example iChase and Flamu, are not very fond of the ship. I think one of their review videos is simply titled "Get Scharnhorst instead" :teethhappy: Because of this I was coming with rather low expectations. She seems all right, but nothing flashy. Having a heal on t6 is great, but you still have to be very careful. I love the mid tier IJN CAs play (Aoba and Furry Taco) and they have some rather similar characteristics to Spee, with the biggest difference being the lack of speed on the latter. I strongly suggest running speed signal on her, because while it won't make all that much difference, every little bit helps.

 

Playing against her I know that she's extremely vulnerable to gunboat DDs when even slightly separated from the pack. So don't go anywhere alone unless you like being constantly on fire without being able to punish the little pest shooting at you. With hydro she's not that vulnerable to torpedo boats, but neither are they to her, so she's a bit of an exception from normal rock-paper-scissors.

 

Of course, BBs can punish you greatly, CVs will eat you alive, since you turn like a brick. So only class of ships that is Spee's natural source of income are CLs, but if they are smart they can still win on RoF and often even being better armored, take Cleveland for example. So there are a lot of ships that want a taste of your salty tears and you just have to be very-very cautious... just like a raider should be. Pick a target, strike fast and then run away.

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Of course, BBs can punish you greatly, CVs will eat you alive, since you turn like a brick. So only class of ships that is Spee's natural source of income are CLs, but if they are smart they can still win on RoF and often even being better armored, take Cleveland for example. So there are a lot of ships that want a taste of your salty tears and you just have to be very-very cautious... just like a raider should be. Pick a target, strike fast and then run away.

 

That's pretty much how I play the Kirov, and between the two I guess I will stay with the Kirov.

 

At least I managed to do some more damage with the thing, by playing it like a 40K HP DD :D

 

lQ0ZKpU.jpg

 

Now I just need to find a way to actually win games instead of waiting unaware people to pass by my island.

 

 

 

 

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Well, Graf Spee IS a cruiser and you must play it like one.

 

It was also a commerce raider not intended to engage in direct fights with dedicated combat vessels.

 

Ships is a game of direct combat between combat vessels, not Graf Spee's natural habitat.

 

However, if you play it smart, it is not forgiving of mistakes, PepsiCola anyone, and you have to pick your spots.

 

You are a second line, support ship. Wait until prey's attention is focused on someone else then attack. Patience is your ally.

 

You are not a Scharnhorst at tier VI. Don't try to be or your gonna have a bad time.

 

As others have said, play some co-op to get used to her.

 

In the end, it was a free ship. You did get her via the campaign didn't you?

 

Good luck and fair seas.

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