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Styrkyr

Tier X Battleship Comparison

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Evening Warshippians,

I've been wanting to do a no-frills comparison of all the tier X ships in the game in relation to each other for a while now, and only recently have had time.  Alas, I only have the 3 tier X BB's to compare at the moment. So I'm going to lay this out they way you'll find it in a tier X match; not in the Wiki or Tech Tree. This is aimed more at people looking to go down a line to the end or to purchase a tier X BB, and are looking to plan ahead. Keep in mind this is what I've found, and this may not apply to everyone equally. I've got 224 battles with the Yamato, 90 battles with the Montana, and 62 battles with the Kurfurst, so I'm not exactly new to running in tier X matches. Anyway, here's what I've found:

 

Kurfurst

Pros: Speed, Guns, Armor, Secondaries

Cons: Maneuverability, Armor, Guns, Concealment

Pro Summary: Kurfurst is like a floating steel box, and inside that box is another, and another, and another, and you get the point. Krupp steel stronk! The armor on the Kurfurst is phenomenal. Citadel? HA! Forget it. Ain't happening. Add to that the respectable speed and you've got yourself a floating battlewagon that can survive to close with the enemy and retreat after killing them. Her upgraded guns are 420's; perfect for putting holes in BB's and blowing the guts out of CA's. Combined with the reload module, and you have yourself a quick firing, quick turning, dreadnought. Her secondaries are, bar none, the best in the game, barely beating out the Yamato's. A full secondary build will decimate anything within 10km. And to top that off, you get a Hydro module, detecting anything within 5.8(?) km. AA does the job stock, but a AA build would be deadly considering the number of DP and large caliber AA guns.

Con Summary: The cons on this ship are many and severe. While it's true that you'll rarely get citadeled and only by plunging fire, the ship is just so.... BIG that normal salvos do massive damage to it. It's not uncommon to do 15k-25k damage and never hit a citadel. Never ever show your broadside unless you're unmasking your rear turrets to fire, and even then, it's a slow process because the ship turns so slow. You will eat torpedoes, many of them, and often. The hydro gives you just enough warning to contemplate your impending doom. The guns on here were manufactured with all the others at Bubba's Home For The Blind. They won't shoot even remotely straight. I'd settle for poor dispersion, but the dispersion on these guns is just downright BAD. If you want any chance of hitting something, you need to be AT MOST 15km away. This is not a sniper. YOU ARE ALWAYS DETECTED. Let me repeat that. YOU ARE ALWAYS DETECTED. The ship is so big, so fat, and so German, that it can be seen from low earth orbit. Get used to it.

Offensive: 7/10 (Excellent guns with a flat arc, exception being dispersion. Think shotgun, get close, very deadly)

Defensive: 8/10 (Krupp steel stronk, just don't show your side. Bow is very bouncy, but ship burns easily and often. BOS is a must)

Secondaries: 10/10 (Range, ROF, Dispersion, this has it all. The best secondaries in the game)

AA: 8/10 (An AA build with MFCAA and AFT/Range Mod would make a very efficient flyswatter)

Maneuverability: 2/10 (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA)

Concealment: 6/10 (Despite my warning about always being detected, a CE build will bring this down to a respectable 14km)

Skill Level: Beginner

Recommended Builds: Secondary, CE, AA

 

 

Montana

Pros: Speed, Maneuverability, AA, Guns

Cons: Armor, Secondaries

Pro Summary: First off, this is my favorite tier X BB, so I may be biased towards it, though I'll try not to be. Most people think the Monty is the worst tier X BB in the game, and I have to disagree with that. It's just played differently. She is fast, with the highest speed of all tier X BB's, and has good turn rate in addition to it. Dodging torpedoes is very easy, and if you're paying attention, you can even turn into incoming salvos and let them all bounce off your neutronium bow armor. A full AA build converts this from a automatic flyswatter to a fly flamethrowernukerthingy (I don't know, I'm not creative). Basically, AA is great. Her guns may seem very "meh" at first, due to them having the smallest caliber of all tier X BB's. This works to your advantage though. First, they're the perfect caliber that they don't overpen CA's easily, yet still pen/cit BB's inside their optimal range. Second, they do the same max damage as the Kurfurst, and only 1,100 max damage less then they Yamato. And there's a grand total of 12 guns vs the Yamatos's 9 guns. When she has APR mod 2 equipped, she has the best dispersion of ANY tier X BB, easily landing tight clusters out to 18km. A CE build gives her 13.7 detect range, almost identical to the Yamato.

Con Summary: Her single biggest weakness is her citadel armor, or lack thereof. It's not difficult to citadel her if she's showing her broadside; even cruisers can do cit her up close. I've even citadeled a Monty under the front turrets with my Khabarovosk at 5-7km. Yes. You read that correctly. A DD can citadel this BB's broadside. Her shells are mostly for show out past 18km, the exception being KM ships where plunging fire is nightmarish. Add to that the fact that she has about the same secondary hitting power as a CV, and you can see why you need to keep a little distance. 

Offensive: 7/10 (12 rounds mean your bound to hit something. And those rounds have a pretty good chance of citadeling. Just don't go over your effective range)

Defensive: 8/10 (Maneuverability and bow armor. If you can't evade it, your bow armor will make sure it bounces. Just don't EVER show your broadside. EVER)

Secondaries: 2/10 (What secondaries?)

AA: 10/10 (The only BB equipped with nuclear chainguns. A full AA build will make CV's cry)

Maneuverability: 8/10 (This is the Shakira of BB's. Her hips don't lie. She'll shake and bake right around those torps or potential rammers)

Concealment: 7/10 ( Similar to the Yamato, full CE build gives you a 13.7 detect range. Great for sneaking up on braindead bad guys)

Skill Level: Intermediate

Recommended Builds: AA, CE

 

 

Yamato

Pros: Guns, Torpedo Belt, Range, Secondaries

Cons: Guns, Maneuverability, AA, Speed 

Pro Summary: So, most everyone knows the Yamato has the biggest guns in the game. Sounds great, right? Now don't get me wrong, her guns are beastly. They punch out to 26.6km, covering over half of most maps. And believe you me, when they hit and cit, they put you in a world of hurt. A quad cit, rare as it is, will delete most tier 9 and all tier 8 BB's in one salvo (iirc). It will effectively put a tier 10 BB out of the match while he either (a) ragequits, or (b) hides in back to try to repair damage. 3 cits will delete almost all cruisers (looking at you Moskva). Add to the fact that her effective citadeling range is out to about 16km, and you get the story. He secondaries also pack a mean punch, having one of, if not the best, secondary suites in the game (tied with Kurfurst). Bow armor is the best in the game; only way to be citadeled through the bow is from another Yamato. CE build turns this thing into a ninja sniper, able to disappear at 13.9km after firing a salvo. 

Con Summary: Now that we're done drooling over the pros, lets take a look at the cons, and buddy boy there are some pretty serious cons here. First off, keeping to the subject of guns, are her 460's. They tend to have issues with cruisers. Specifically, they tend to overpen said cruisers where another BB would land a citadel. I can't count how many times I put a spread of shells into a DM's waterline at 15km away and all I see is "4884" for damage. Not that the shells are bad, they're just not really designed to obliterate CA's like they are BB's. The shells are very floaty past 20km, and lack decent dispersion over 16km. They'll go all over the place. It has the lowest damage potential of all tier X BB's, and lacks 3 fewer shells per salvo. Poor turn rate and speed mean that you need to plan WAY ahead or you are going to eat a LOT of torps; your torpedo belt will lower the damage somewhat, but you'll still flood from it. The AA is a joke; Tier VIII planes will absolutely wreck you if they know what they're doing. This ship is very flammable for some reason; it tends to burn often. 

Offensive: 6/10 (Devastating against BB's. CA's and DD's will laugh at you. Enjoy the overpens. Only has 75% the potential number of shells as it's other tier X sisters. Lowest tier X BB damage potential)

Defensive: 5/10 (Bow armor is ridiculously strong. Torp belt somewhat mitigates torp damage; you still flood though. Doesn't really compensate for poor turn rate)

Secondaries: 9/10 (These things are amazing. Like, really amazing. Like, brawling amazing. Learn to love them)

AA: 4/10 (It's reminiscent of the Kawachi's AA; really only there for show. Wait till you get [edited] by a strike Lex. Find a AA cruiser and make him your battle buddy)

Maneuverability: 3/10 (Poor speed, abysmal turn rate, and forget stopping. You're going to get torped often and hard)

Concealment: 7/10 (CE build gives you a 13.9 detect range; makes a great ninja obliterator.)

Skill Level: Advanced

Recommended Builds: CE, Secondary

 

Again, this is just my opinion, and what I've found by playing the game. This won't apply to everyone, but hopefully this will give a little bit of information to help a prospective Tier X BB captain drive a little better. 

 

Edited by Styrkyr
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Montana's biggest weakness is her guns. 16"ers bounce off high tier cruiser belt armor (except DM and Mino) with surprising regularity thanks to autobounce mechanics. She's accurate and has very high potential damage, but ultimately if your target isn't near broadside you won't be getting those huge hits.

 

Also, I had to laugh at Yamato "Advanced" when 18" overmatch allows any scrub to deal 10k+ salvos to BBs from any angle.

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I would say Yamato would be the intermediate (its really hard to NOT do damage with those guns, but you do tend to be focused and it is a [edited]to move) and Montana, with her dumb citadel model, would be Advanced. Montana takes exceptional situational awareness to make work, Yamato doesn't. 

Montana's biggest weakness is her guns. 16"ers bounce off high tier cruiser belt armor (except DM and Mino) with surprising regularity thanks to autobounce mechanics. She's accurate and has very high potential damage, but ultimately if your target isn't near broadside you won't be getting those huge hits.

 

the 406s are effectively the same as the 420s, there isn't any armor that the 420s will overmatch and the 420s won't. And both, even the 460mm Yamato, will bounce off angled cruiser belt armor. Anything over 32mm of armor will autobounce even Yamato. 

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I would beg to differ with your summary of the Yamato and Montana. In my Des Moines, I would much prefer facing down a Montana to facing down a Yamato. Against Yamatos, angling does not matter. At. All. Against Monty I can at least try.

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Also, I had to laugh at Yamato "Advanced" when 18" overmatch allows any scrub to deal 10k+ salvos to BBs from any angle.

The utility of Yamato's overmatch ability is somewhat overstated.  Angled Montanas won't take a citadel penetration from her (though the normal pens can hurt), and none of the Germans take citadel penetrations with any reliable frequency (and Grosser Kurfurst is all but invincible to those 460mm rifles from the front).  Where the ability is most effective is, ironically, against other Yamatos because of the octagonal citadel hidden behind only 32mm exterior plates.  In general, the Yamato's armor is reliant upon autobounce to function at its best: once that protection is stripped away, you're left with a rather poorly-protected ship for such size and power.

 

Her accuracy is fearsome, and her guns hurt a lot, but at T10, any BB shell does enough damage to be significant with a single citadel hit, and most guns will penetrate battleship belts even out to considerable ranges.  Yamato is a very good mid-range battleship with the ability to brawl situationally, but between her huge spotting range and her inferior speed to other T10 BBs, it's harder to keep your distance.  Especially if you're also trying to wiggle, because of how badly the ship responds to the rudder, how much speed she loses in the slightest of turns, and her abysmal turret traverse.  I don't think she has a higher skill floor than Montana, but she's definitely not nearly as easy as Grosser Kurfurst is to pilot.

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I would beg to differ with your summary of the Yamato and Montana. In my Des Moines, I would much prefer facing down a Montana to facing down a Yamato. Against Yamatos, angling does not matter. At. All. Against Monty I can at least try.

 

Angling the DM against 16" BBs is useless because her armor gets overmatched regardless of angle. Even an Amagi or NC will shred a DM if it lands a meaty salvo on the DM's hull. Your only hope of bouncing BB shells in the DM is if their shells hit the frontal armor of your gun turrets. You don't want to be getting focus fired by BBs in the DM period. This is why 3 man divisions that run the DM are often paired up with Gearings for smoke cover.

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The utility of Yamato's overmatch ability is somewhat overstated.  Angled Montanas won't take a citadel penetration from her (though the normal pens can hurt)

 

Here's me doing 85k damage to a fully angled Montana over 4 salvos (and the last salvo only hit for 8k because that's all he had left, would likely have been 40k+) with literally no skill required, just clicking directly under the bow turrets.

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Here's me doing 85k damage to a fully angled Montana over 4 salvos (and the last salvo only hit for 8k because that's all he had left, would likely have been 40k+) with literally no skill required, just clicking directly under the bow turrets.

He's bow-on to you, a position where his 457mm frontal bulkhead is all-but-useless, and at close range, where no amount of armor would save him.  If he angled about 30-45 degrees off bow-on from you, and keeping his distance as he should be, his armor has the best chance of defeating your shells from both through the front when you lolpen the bow and hit the transverse bulkhead, and if stray shots strike the main belt.  Depending on where within that range he is, he may also be able to wall you off from penetrating him one way or another via autobounce.  I specifically said angled and not bow-on for a reason.  And regardless of whether Yamato is more accurate at range or not, Montana doesn't do well by approaching head-on or even angled from open sea.

Edited by TenguBlade

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oK, how to put this nicely. ah F@ck it, im going to put this bluntly. Anyone whom says Montana's Secondaries are useless has ZERO idea what they are talking about.

 

 shot_17_01_05_01_07_25_0279_by_ryuukei85

shot_17_01_05_00_17_21_0479_by_ryuukei85

 

Yes, that right 43K damage form secondaries alone. 10 fires. 10 fires. Note, did not fire a single round of HE from main battery. Your a damn fool if you underestimate Montana's secondaries.Why because 9% fire chance that's why. yamato';s Secondaries yeah they have 8% fire chance, but they also have 725 mps muzzle velocity. So yeah, shells that are floatier than Atlanta's shells. Good luck hitting anything other than a BB with those secondaries. Oh and Yamato's secondaries die if you so much as look at them funny. GK and Montana's Secondaries are at least largely immune to 8 inch HE spam. Direct AP hits will still kill them though. Speaking of GK's secondaries though. Range is the only advantage GK's Secondaries have. Shell arcs are generally decent on both ships secondaries, but in terms of DPM, GK's secondaries are somewhat less and in terms of fire starting potential, its a lot less. Compared to GK' a comparable number of secondary hits will maybe yield 5-6 fires. Montana secondaries normally yields 5-6 fires around the 100-120 hits mark. The only other secondary with a 9% fire chance is the German 105's, but the thing with those 105's, is they cant pen the superstructure of T8+ BB's, nor can they hurt the hulls of T8+ cruisers or DD's, so their fire chance get heavily slashed because of the limited area's that they can pen. 5 inch guns can pen any superstructure and they can damage anywhere on a DD save for a very few rare exceptions. So Montana's secondaries aren't as often gimped by their caliber the way the German 105's are.

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If he angled about 30-45 degrees off bow-on from you, and keeping his distance as he should be, his armor has the best chance of defeating your shells from both through the front when you lolpen the bow and hit the transverse bulkhead, and if stray shots strike the main belt.

 

From the same replay I have another 20k hit against the other Montana when he was angled 35 degrees and my salvo hit the corner between his deck and belt. Staying at range is an even worse proposition for Montana, because although you might take less damage (mostly through dispersion, not actually bouncing anything), you won't do more than 2-3k salvos against an angled Yamato who is still hitting you for 8k+ back.

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