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icepac_hero

American Cruiser Role

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Greetings !

I currently play VMF and Kriegsmarine Cruiser and have played a bit of the IJN line as well.  I can easily tell you the role and play strategy of all these lines.  From my observation, I believe I also have a firm grasp of the RN Cruiser (I think it should be played a bit like IJN aka DD support)...

 

However I am at a loss when it comes to USN role.

 

From my observations :

  1. USN don't really have the range (or the speed) to play outside of the engagement zone (can't flank)
  2. USN also don't have the concealment to play close to the DD line
  3. While they do have the best armor of all Cruiser they certainly can't sustain BB fire for long
  4. And of course USN don't have torps (most of them) and so no spike damage ability...

So can someone tell me what role they see USN Cruiser play in the fleet and how to play them ?

Edited by icepac_hero
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You use island cover to offset your concealment so that you can get into knife-fighting range and screw other people over.  USN CAs not only have powerful AP shells, but very good agility.  They also have very good AA to swat planes that try to interfere, even with DF off.

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I am a USN Fanboy, and I will go ahead and tell you what the point of the USN is.

Early tier 1,2,and 3 ships are meant to brawl as broadside sluggers, beating things with there mighty stick via broadside. 

Mid tier, 4, 5, (I have no experience above 5) 6, are meant to support the fleet. Phoenix has no strong AA but is a Destroyer Escort and can dance and sing (move and shoot) like a boss. Omaha has an overexposed citadel, but it is part cruiser, part carrier, part BB, and part destroyer (it has cruiser secondaries and AA, Carrier ability to launch a plane, BB in terms of her gun layout, Destroyer in terms of her torpedoes). Cleveland has good guns and fights well like a more modern cruiser.

High tier, 7 +, is like any other type of ship 7+ from what I see (have not experienced)

 

However, USN has fallen victim to a lack of attention, and they quite literally are reduced to mobile AA platforms. And that honestly is the USN role, AA defense. They don't excel at anything in particular that means something. Back in the day of just IJN and USN, it was necessary to give the US cruisers superior Anti-Aircraft fire, but they have fallen out of favor because there are no new carrier lines. USN gets good at tier 7 from what I am told.

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You use island cover to offset your concealment so that you can get into knife-fighting range and screw other people over.  USN CAs not only have powerful AP shells, but very good agility.  They also have very good AA to swat planes that try to interfere, even with DF off.

 

What makes USN Cruiser better at using island for concealment than the other Cruisers in your opinion ?
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USN cruiser roll?

With a few exceptions, by and large, XP pinata.

By that, you mean a useless floating AA turret

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More just being snarky.

I've invested more time into USN cruisers than any other nation.

I'm up to the Baltimore and about 90k into the final grind to the Des Moines.

For the most part, I've enjoyed them, though NO was HORRIBLE stock (to the point that I free xp'ed the upgrades to Baltimore)

They are great at fighting other cruisers, but without torps and/or good HE they suffer when fighting BB's (though their AP can do some nasty damage up close).

There are so few CV's I don't even think their AA is even worth considering when evaluating them.

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What makes USN Cruiser better at using island for concealment than the other Cruisers in your opinion ?

It's not so much that they're better suited to using islands as concealment so much as they're best in close quarters.  Islands block line of sight, so as long as you stay amongst them, it doesn't matter how bad your concealment is, hence why I advised you to use island cover where possible.  They provide cover for you to get into ranges where you work best.

 

Until T7, USN CAs don't have appreciably lower rudder shift times or smaller turning circles than their counterparts.  Past that tier, their agility is inferior only to the UK.  However, at almost all tiers, USN CAs do respond to throttle inputs much more readily than any other CA except, again, UK CLs.  Combining a deceleration with rudder input can result in you dropping almost half of your speed in a few seconds - perfect for dodging torpedoes.

Edited by TenguBlade

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What makes USN Cruiser better at using island for concealment than the other Cruisers in your opinion ?

 

Good for ambushes and with the higher than normal arcs on the rounds, you can lob over the island keeping yourself protected and concealed where as RN and IJN have flatter arcs and would need more distance from the island to pull it off. 

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You use island cover to offset your concealment so that you can get into knife-fighting range and screw other people over.  USN CAs not only have powerful AP shells, but very good agility.  They also have very good AA to swat planes that try to interfere, even with DF off.

 

USN AA is not that great compared to other cruisers anymore. They don't have the best range at any tier, and have the worst or second worst range in most tiers. What they generally have is great, medium-ranged AA (about 3.5 km), which is excellent for self-defense but not so good for covering allies.

 

I'm not positive about tier's 9 and 10, but I looked up all the top hulls for every cruiser up to tier 8 recently, and right now the only tier between 1 and 8 where the USN has clearly the best AA is tier 6. At tier 7 the Pensacola could arguably be best, since it's medium and close range DPS are great, but it has shorter range than the rest of the tier, and there is no clearly superior ship in the tier.

 

The USN compares favorably to the IJN after tier 4 (where IJN is best), which is think where the meme about "good AA" comes from. When it was just USN and IJN, the IJN DPS was so low that USN was better, but now there are 3 lines which have better range and competitive DPS, so the USN is average at best. Cleveland and Atlanta have great AA; the rest of the line is mediocre.

 

AA range is what determines how well you can cover allies, so it's a big deal when one nation consistently has 1 km or more shorter range.

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USN AA is not that great compared to other cruisers anymore. They don't have the best range at any tier, and have the worst or second worst range in most tiers. What they generally have is great, medium-ranged AA (about 3.5 km), which is excellent for self-defense but not so good for covering allies.

 

I'm not positive about tier's 9 and 10, but I looked up all the top hulls for every cruiser up to tier 8 recently, and right now the only tier between 1 and 8 where the USN has clearly the best AA is tier 6. At tier 7 the Pensacola could arguably be best, since it's medium and close range DPS are great, but it has shorter range than the rest of the tier, and there is no clearly superior ship in the tier.

 

The USN compares favorably to the IJN after tier 4 (where IJN is best), which is think where the meme about "good AA" comes from. When it was just USN and IJN, the IJN DPS was so low that USN was better, but now there are 3 lines which have better range and competitive DPS, so the USN is average at best. Cleveland and Atlanta have great AA; the rest of the line is mediocre.

 

AA range is what determines how well you can cover allies, so it's a big deal when one nation consistently has 1 km or more shorter range.

 

Not sure what you are talking about here...

 

The only line that has more AA range at any level than USN is the RN line.  However they can't equip the AAD module which is essential if you intend to cover with AA...

 

I also I agree with whoever talked about the high arc making USN Cruiser better to use island for cover. However, the problem with that is you lose one great asset of the Cruiser = mobility...

I play C.V. quite a bit and there is nothing I love more than see a Cruiser sitting behind an island...

Same for a DD that can make a deadly run from the other side...

Edited by icepac_hero

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Not sure what you are talking about here...

 

The only line that has more AA range at any level than USN is the RN line.  However they can't equip the AAD module which is essential if you intend to cover with AA...

 

I also I agree with whoever talked about the high arc making USN Cruiser better to use island for cover. However, the problem with that is you lose one great asset of the Cruiser = mobility...

I play C.V. quite a bit and there is nothing I love more than see a Cruiser sitting behind an island...

Same for a DD that can make a deadly run from the other side...

 

AA pre equipment and skills top hull that goes past 3.5km base.

 

New Orleans: 153.8 dps  Hipper: 234.6 dps German far in the lead here

Baltimore: ___281.4 dps Roon: --265.0  dps USN  barely edges ahead here

 

And Both the German cruisers get things like Torpedoes, armor that works a lot better, better shell velocity, harder hitting AP. 

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AA pre equipment and skills top hull that goes past 3.5km base.

 

New Orleans: 153.8 dps  Hipper: 234.6 dps German far in the lead here

Baltimore: ___281.4 dps Roon: --265.0  dps USN  barely edges ahead here

 

And Both the German cruisers get things like Torpedoes, armor that works a lot better, better shell velocity, harder hitting AP. 

 

So you take what is arguably the worst ship on a line (N.O.) against arguably the best ship of the other line (Hipper) and rest your case on this ?

You have to agree that if you compare all the ship of both lines, USN edge Kriegmarine in AA significantly...

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So you take what is arguably the worst ship on a line (N.O.) against arguably the best ship of the other line (Hipper) and rest your case on this ?

You have to agree that if you compare all the ship of both lines, USN edge Kriegmarine in AA significantly...

 

I shall quote your own words. You made the false statement.

 

"The only line that has more AA range at any level than USN is the RN line." - icepac_hero, on 09 January 2017 - 03:45

 

 

 

 

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Not sure what you are talking about here...

 

The only line that has more AA range at any level than USN is the RN line.  However they can't equip the AAD module which is essential if you intend to cover with AA...

 

 

I think you (purposefully) forgot to post the entire comment on that

 

*fixed*

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I might have missed, but at what ship are you currently?

 

I am currently at the New Orleans, just finished an amazing grind with the Pepsi. Both have very good AP shells with tight dispersion, great for easily finishing off broadside cruisers.

To get most out of it you'll need to manoeuvre a lot, stay near islands for cover when needed. As most cruisers you need to help your DDs, but as always you ll need a BB to support you ofc. Focus on killing other cruisers, also I found CE quite handy

 

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I might have missed, but at what ship are you currently?

 

I am currently at the New Orleans, just finished an amazing grind with the Pepsi. Both have very good AP shells with tight dispersion, great for easily finishing off broadside cruisers.

To get most out of it you'll need to manoeuvre a lot, stay near islands for cover when needed. As most cruisers you need to help your DDs, but as always you ll need a BB to support you ofc. Focus on killing other cruisers, also I found CE quite handy

 

 

So what do USN Cruiser bring to your playstyle that you couldn't find in another Cruiser line ?

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So what do USN Cruiser bring to your playstyle that you couldn't find in another Cruiser line ?

 

​What I found in the US cruiser line so far, mentioning the Pepsi and the NO atm, is that I can land a bunch of shells were I want them to land. Together with the tight dispersion and strong AP shells you will almost certainly get at least 1 citadel hit on any broadside cruiser. Whether that is at short or long range. Only KM comes close to this, but with KM (T89) I don't do as often citadel hits as with the US T78.

 

Yes it is difficult to take out battleships, that is why I focus on other cruisers and DDs first. Only with the help with a BB I will attack another BB.

 

Most important thing is to learn to anticipate when someone is going to turn. That way you can make your guns count on also the more experienced players.

 

Edit: With IJN I think only the Furutaka comes close to firepower/accuracy wise when comparing her with the higher tier US cruisers.

Edited by joris92

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So what do USN Cruiser bring to your playstyle that you couldn't find in another Cruiser line ?

The ability to penetrate angled BBs' upper hull for stupid amounts of damage.  That and a very good crash course in how to predict, see, and dodge incoming fire.  I'm still not even 90% right, but playing American CAs has done more to help me practice than any other line.  The Soviets are shell magnets too, but they can neither move or take a hit worth [edited] so they make for poor platforms to practice with.

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The purpose of a USN Cruiser is to think it's actually useful other than providing a meat shield that opposing Battleships gobble up.

 

Their AA isn't that special nowadays with Defensive Fire available to all Cruiser lines.

 

"USN National Flavor is AA" is meaningless when other Cruiser lines can get high AA Cruisers.  Minotaur and Neptune for instance shoot down more planes on average than USN Cruisers of the same tier, and they do this without Defensive Fire.  Hindenburg, Moskva, Mikhail Kutuzov, Dmitri Donskoi, Roon, Adm.Hipper / Prinz Eugen have just as competitive AA as their USN counterparts, or in the case of Hipper / Prinz, better than their USN counterpart.

 

Tech Tree USN Cruisers lose the threat and ability to spike down even a Battleship at close range with no torpedoes.  When I rush a USN Cruiser in a Battleship, I have zero fear or respect of them because they have no torpedoes to make me think, "Closing range with that Cruiser is a bad idea."

Edit:  This reminds me of a post I had a few months ago regarding the threat and value of torpedoes for a Cruiser as The Great Equalizer.

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/84062-lack-of-torps-makes-usn-cruisers-inferior-to-other-cruiser-lines/page__st__120__pid__2209935#entry2209935

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Ive said this before and will again - The problem with the USN cruiser line is up to tier 6 it encourages crappy play. "HurrDurr Ill just spam HE from my chaingun turrets and laugh as the world burns!" Then they get to the Pensacola and wonder why they suck so hard.  I will say that the Pensacola definitely needs some buffing in some manner - say radar that is actually effective, or smoke (both of which really all ships should have) and Im willing to wager that the New Orleans is going to have some of the same faults. However, if you switch over and come up the Brit cruiser line (and ignore the torpedoes) you'll find that the USN cruisers T7+ arent as horrid as some think.  Definitely not the OP nonsense we see from the IJN lines anyway.

 

I still havent decided yet if I want the New Orleans.

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Ive said this before and will again - The problem with the USN cruiser line is up to tier 6 it encourages crappy play. "HurrDurr Ill just spam HE from my chaingun turrets and laugh as the world burns!" Then they get to the Pensacola and wonder why they suck so hard.  I will say that the Pensacola definitely needs some buffing in some manner - say radar that is actually effective, or smoke (both of which really all ships should have) and Im willing to wager that the New Orleans is going to have some of the same faults. However, if you switch over and come up the Brit cruiser line (and ignore the torpedoes) you'll find that the USN cruisers T7+ arent as horrid as some think.  Definitely not the OP nonsense we see from the IJN lines anyway.

 

I still havent decided yet if I want the New Orleans.

 

British CLs get to smoke up and get some damage firing out of the cloud. They also get a heal, and the New Orleans / Pensacola are just as squishy as them.
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The ability to penetrate angled BBs' upper hull for stupid amounts of damage.  That and a very good crash course in how to predict, see, and dodge incoming fire.  I'm still not even 90% right, but playing American CAs has done more to help me practice than any other line.  The Soviets are shell magnets too, but they can neither move or take a hit worth [edited] so they make for poor platforms to practice with.

 

Perhaps better explained than me.

I had more difficulties leveling the higher tier German cruisers (T7 and up) than I have had with US T7/8. German cruisers have some nice sonar and torps, but the ability to brutally demolish a broadside cruiser hasn't happen often to me. It is important with this game to not always fire when you can fire. Less experienced players often go broadside so aren't a problem, but the more experienced players will only turn after you fired your guns. I often let them hit me, till they need to turn :red_button:

 

​Only the US cruisers have been so rewarding in such cases, thanks to their AP shells and dispersion. :D

Edited by joris92

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