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1HandTiedBehindMyBack

So Radar and Sonar working through terrain?

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So wondering if this was a design decision or could they just not program this correctly so made it a feature?  I don't mind playing DDs as I like the risk reward but really how many ways does WG have to add for fail players to counter the hardest class in the game to play?  Just kills me every time I see an add for WOWS and they brag about being such an accurate game, or when they screw over an entire nation by  their design choices based on history and the facts but they get so many things so blatently wrong.  I get that its not a sim but really SONAR going THROUGH an island. just remove every class but BBs and only have ocean maps with 10 km range!  Totally takes the skill out of the game trying to set up ambush torp runs, but hey I guess a click should nullify a ship!  (and its 2 minute reload torps)

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IIRC it was an implementation decision so anything within the radius of the radar/hydro is automatically detected.  This never made much sense to me because the game already knows which ships were in range but not detected due to LOS restrictions...just keep those restrictions (sans smoke).  I really hate it when trying to cap and a CA is safely behind an island but then gets to light up the entire cap point with impunity.

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I believe they actively decided to let it do that. Though I think it was a stupid decision. My point being, don't ever expect it to be patched.

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What sonar and radar do when activated is they increase the ship's auto-detection radius to their maximum range.

 

Auto-detection also works through land masses.

 

This is an engine limitation that WG is just too lazy to work around.

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IIRC it was an implementation decision so anything within the radius of the radar/hydro is automatically detected.  This never made much sense to me because the game already knows which ships were in range but not detected due to LOS restrictions...just keep those restrictions (sans smoke).  I really hate it when trying to cap and a CA is safely behind an island but then gets to light up the entire cap point with impunity.

 

Yea literally... it's call the same routine as the module but remove ship concealments out to X distance.... no other change to LOS mechanics would be needed, since there are no counters to radar/sonar. 

 

I asked for chaff on DDs a long time ago... like Chaff Smoke... but no. I've also asked for better AA on destroyers... but no... 

 

So yes.. it is working as intended. It utilizes multidimensional quantum tunneling plus a couple of phlugpharamens.

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So wondering if this was a design decision or could they just not program this correctly so made it a feature?

 

Probably a bit of both

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Think the devs said that they cannot fix this. Its engine limitation.

Edited by nothere01

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Think the devs said that they cannot fix this. Its engine limitation.

 

​So they can't make Radar use a bit of the Spotting Mechanic?

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I have little doubt this could be fixed, it just may take a total logic change to how the mechanism works....just do they want to make the change...and sadly it looks like it is not a priority.

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So wondering if this was a design decision or could they just not program this correctly so made it a feature?  I don't mind playing DDs as I like the risk reward but really how many ways does WG have to add for fail players to counter the hardest class in the game to play?  Just kills me every time I see an add for WOWS and they brag about being such an accurate game, or when they screw over an entire nation by  their design choices based on history and the facts but they get so many things so blatently wrong.  I get that its not a sim but really SONAR going THROUGH an island. just remove every class but BBs and only have ocean maps with 10 km range!  Totally takes the skill out of the game trying to set up ambush torp runs, but hey I guess a click should nullify a ship!  (and its 2 minute reload torps)

And it kills every one of us to see that you can't take the damn hint that nobody cares about your opinion, that it's most often wrong (for once, it's not entirely here), and you walk around too deluded to realize either things.

 

How hard is it to not fire torpedoes while hydro is active?  Especially when you know that you face a 2-minute reload if you waste them?  Since sonar goes through islands, you can stay hidden until the indicator disappears, then attack knowing his hydro is off, can't you?

Edited by TenguBlade

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And it kills every one of us to see that you can't take the damn hint that nobody cares about your opinion, that it's most often wrong (for once, it's not entirely here), and you walk around too deluded to realize either things.

 

How hard is it to not fire torpedoes while hydro is active?  Especially when you know that you face a 2-minute reload if you waste them?  Since sonar goes through islands, you can stay hidden until the indicator disappears, then attack knowing his hydro is off, can't you?

 

First, I don't know if Hydro is active if I am not within that detection range but since I play IJN DD's I can be 5km away behind an island and launch torps just to the edge of the island but hydro spots them.  Secondly, the issue with being spotted by Hydro or Radar while not in LOS to the spotting ship isn't that they are shooting me, but all of their red friends and my green friends often can't shoot the spotter and I end up sunk with no counter move.

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What sonar and radar do when activated is they increase the ship's auto-detection radius to their maximum range.

 

Auto-detection also works through land masses.

 

This is an engine limitation that WG is just too lazy to work around.

 

I don't think it is lazy but more the realization that factoring the land into radar/hydro is more work than the benefit would be worth.

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Think the devs said that they cannot fix this. Its engine limitation

 

I call [edited], if they "System" can warn you about a collision with the island or structure then it is in the code. 

 

Ship with Radar active....draw line to ship that's concealed...if obstruction is there then it's not detected. 

 

TADA!!! 

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​So they can't make Radar use a bit of the Spotting Mechanic?

Yes, they have said there is a limitation of the engine that prevents radar or sonar from being blocked by islands 

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I don't think it is lazy but more the realization that factoring the land into radar/hydro is more work than the benefit would be worth.

 

It's not really that complicated. It can just piggyback the existing line of sight mechanics that are already built into landmasses.

 

I call [edited], if they "System" can warn you about a collision with the island or structure then it is in the code. 

Ship with Radar active....draw line to ship that's concealed...if obstruction is there then it's not detected. 

 

TADA!!! 

 

Boom.

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It's not really that complicated. It can just piggyback the existing line of sight mechanics that are already built into landmasses.

 

 

Boom.

 

​Unless it just isn't possible to do that. No offense, but I am more inclined to believe the people who built the software and work with it every day when they say it can't do that. Everyone else is just guessing and ascribing motivations to them when they have no idea what is really required to change it. If it was as simple as piggybacking, they almost certainly would have just done it. Clearly either it is impossible to fix it or it is cost or time prohibitive and it is easier to stick with a mechanic that everyone agrees is silly.     

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​Unless it just isn't possible to do that. No offense, but I am more inclined to believe the people who built the software and work with it every day when they say it can't do that. Everyone else is just guessing and ascribing motivations to them when they have no idea what is really required to change it. If it was as simple as piggybacking, they almost certainly would have just done it. Clearly either it is impossible to fix it or it is cost or time prohibitive and it is easier to stick with a mechanic that everyone agrees is silly.

 

I don't trust anyone honestly. I'm just stating facts: 

 

1. There is a check to see if you're going to hit an island so the code has mapped all the maps constructions

2. If you are within clear view at your detect range and not in smoke you are seen.

3. If you are behind an island (without Acoustics or Radar active) you are not seen.

4. Player activates his/her search method the system makes a few checks on the above situations and makes a determination. 

 

If I had to guess, WG doesn't want people to hide or ambush...simple as that. 

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Hydro and radar are working as intended. WG is satisfied on that, and is apparently focused on other matters.

 

This tool for countering DD ambushes and dying to torps is fair and balanced because even premium, hydro and radar take at least 2 min to come off CD. The only people complaining, generally, are the ones that have not adapted to it.

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​Unless it just isn't possible to do that. No offense, but I am more inclined to believe the people who built the software and work with it every day when they say it can't do that. Everyone else is just guessing and ascribing motivations to them when they have no idea what is really required to change it. If it was as simple as piggybacking, they almost certainly would have just done it. Clearly either it is impossible to fix it or it is cost or time prohibitive and it is easier to stick with a mechanic that everyone agrees is silly.     

Speaking as a developer you're bang on here. Nothing is impossible and the only restriction developers ever face is time(with time really meaning cost in business). More than likely the framework they have setup is not easily modified to tie those things into the spotting mechanic. Their own fault of course whether accidental or a failure to anticipate future requirements. Either way they've determined it's not feasible at the moment.

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It's not really that complicated. It can just piggyback the existing line of sight mechanics that are already built into landmasses.

Do you know if it can, smartass?  Because your idea goes nowhere without making that assumption.

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What you have to understand is that Sonar DOES in fact go through rocks and other mediums. Solid objects that are in the way can sometimes lessen the degree to which sonar works, but it still works. Hydrocaustics detects the sound that ships make in water. Dry land that is in the way will not block the sound that a ship makes in water what so ever. If you are standing on 1 side of a wall and me in the other, and I begin to scream in your direction,  you may not hear my voice at it's highest decibels but you will still hear it. That is how hydro works. Radar is different but still works also. In all there is nothing here that needs to be "fixed". Also, your wrong on dd's being the hardest class to play. CVs are.

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