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Dreddnort

HMS Hood and it's high pedestal

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Reading some of the posts that mention the HMS Hood and what tier is should be seems to be somewhat out of sinc with reality. I spent some time looking at the data, and it seems to me that this ship, I wager partly because it's stunning demise, has been held up to a level that is not fair considering history and to it's actual legacy. It is talked about as if it was a super-ship, a warship of considerable capability. It was not, though it was still a threat to the German fleet during a time of relative quiet in regard the British battleship construction. In fact it was dangerously stretched to the limits while the Royal Navy waited for newer, superior ships to come on-line.

 

The HMS Hood was really the last purpose built British battlecruiser, and was not continued as a class because of it's degree of obsolescence and its design deficiencies. As a Battlecruiser, it was never fully intended for it to confront a battleship head on, it's a heavy skirmisher, hence the speed and strong fire power (nice 15" main), good 12" to 6" belt armor (or about 13" to 7" if you equate the benefit of the sloped angle, which makes it roughly comparable to the Warspite's early, as built side protection), great at tackling cruisers with ease and harassing BBs, no more. Regardless of the reason for it's sinking, the large center boat deck was dangerously under armored (especially with time-delay shells) and this was compounded by center-stress, an area of great concern because the shear weight of two turrets at either end, so far apart caused significant structural problems, especially in the boat deck area, where the stresses were felt most. The belt armor was uniquely constructed to relieve some of the stresses in that region of the ship. In WoW this deficiency would have to be factored in (both plunging on deck and horizontal fire because of the structural stress points), at least with any version before the later planned refit/reconstruction that never happened (even then, it is debatable weather the admiralty would have fixed such an expensive problem). The ship in the game would have that huge achilles heel and would be the Pensacola of the British line of battleships, good speed and maneuverability, excellent guns, but with suspect armor performance in direct engagement. I'd make it the regular along side the premium Warspite at tier 6, that's correctly one above the Kongo and one lower than Nagato, even with the Bayern, Fuso & New Mexico (which would make it the speedy Kongo of T6). 

 

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Hood's displacement would make her at least a T7 if not a T8.  HP-wise, she would be on par with the Nagato at T7, and be very close to fastest for T7, behind only the smaller Gneisenau by 1 knot.  Based on the performance of Warspite's 15" guns, Hood have much more firepower than any other warship at that tier capable of such high speed, and an immense HP pool to draw from to boot.

 

The British WWI-era BB designs really never had much deck armor.  WG may go ahead and slap Hood's planned armor refit on or make one up to shore up that weakness if they think it's necessary (they did so for Amagi's B/C hull deck armor, and Arizona's  AA armament).

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Assuming they put Hood in as it was when sunk or even earlier I could see it working as a tier VI or VII premium, however I'd prefer to see the Admiral class, the actual class Hood was part of before the others were canceled, in the tech tree at tier VII with one of the upgraded hulls being the planned 1942 Hood rebuild.

Edited by Panzer20000
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The problem with Hood at tier 6 is that it's just too versatile vs other BBs, this is why the community consensus is place the Hood at tier 7. Hood used an improved turret design giving her superior elevation, equating to better range succeeding other tier 6 ships like the Dunkerque. Her top speed of 30 knots is faster than every other BB below her with the exception of Kongo, every cruiser ever will be screwed the moment you show up. Her AA, while not overly impressive is still superior to most other BBs at tier 6 whether stock or upgraded. Her tonnage is 47,000t fully loaded, so her HP pool will be significantly bigger than other BBs at tier 6. Hoods protection is not her armor but her tier 8 level HP pool. the ability to lolpen citadels from tier 6 BBs can not be discounted either. While yes she can do that at tier 7, it will be less common as Hood will still face ships with bigger guns and equal lolpen abilities, forcing you to play smarter. 

 

All in all, Hoods rightful place is at tier 7.

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Why do people insist on placing her at tier 6? She has Nagato level hitpoints, Warspite firepower and 30 knots speed. Tier 7 material through and through.

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From Wikipedia:

 

 The additional armour added during construction increased her draught by about 4 feet (1.2 m) at deep load, which reduced her freeboard and made her very wet. At full speed, or in heavy seas, water would flow over the ship's quarterdeck and often entered the messdecks and living quarters through ventilation shafts.[5] This characteristic earned her the nickname of "the largest submarine in the Navy".[6] The persistent dampness, coupled with the ship's poor ventilation, was blamed for the high incidence of tuberculosis aboard.[7] The ship's complement varied widely over her career; in 1919, she was authorised 1433 men as a squadron flagship; in 1934, she had 81 officers and 1244 men aboard.

 

Besides the obvious about her sinking, this I what I remember most about Hood. Not a ship I would want to be on.

 

As for what Tier she would be, I don't see her as a Tier 6. I'd say a 7 more likely, maybe an 8 depending on how WG wants to balance her.

 

  Warspite Hood
Belt 6-13" 6-12"
Deck 1-3" .75-3"
Barbette 7-10" 5-12"
Turrets 11-13" 11-15"
Coning Tower 3-11" 9-11"
Bulkheads 4-6" 4-5"
Speed 24 Kt 31 Kt

 

No way they can make Hood a Tier 6 when she has at least comparable armor to Warspite and is 7 kt faster.

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Battle-cruisers prior to Hood traded armour for speed. 

Hood traded size. She essentially carries the same degree of protection as a Queen Elizabeth, with the same main battery, but at 31 knots rather than 24. 

Whilst not a new idea (there was a design for a 25 knot Dreadnought along the same lines), it was the first implementation. 

To that end the USN viewed her as being as revolutionary as Dreadnought herself. 

 

Hood and her half sisters are certainly tier VII material. 

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Yeah for speed, hp pool, and firepower she would fit well in tier 7, Colorado, Nagato, Gneisenau.  I think she would hold her own.

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Yeah for speed, hp pool, and firepower she would fit well in tier 7, Colorado, Nagato, Gneisenau.  I think she would hold her own.

 

Until something dropped a shell on the deck, then KABOOM....

 

that will be the hidden quirk of the hood, hidden 175% chance to explode when penned in the deck.

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Why do people insist on placing her at tier 6? She has Nagato level hitpoints, Warspite firepower and 30 knots speed. Tier 7 material through and through.

 

Because it's the sober thing to do, this is not the gob-smacking ship of WWII, it's a fast, middleweight boxer with a spine that's about the snap. And this where it falls apart having weight as the only factor for hit-point placement. That means I could bring a super-tanker at T10 (because of weight) into the mix and never be sunk (4 billion hitpoints), all I would do is ram every ship for the win. Hood is a tier six (a fat one then), without doubt. And factoring speed?? that would put a Kongo at T6, right? Or the Gneisenau at T8? Or if the Hood is placed at T7, once armor is breached (easily in the center with a direct hit from a Navada, Nagato or Gneisenau, never-mind by a T8), the damage should be massive, especially in the center section, as I explained above. 

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Battle-cruisers prior to Hood traded armour for speed. 

Hood traded size. She essentially carries the same degree of protection as a Queen Elizabeth, with the same main battery, but at 31 knots rather than 24. 

Whilst not a new idea (there was a design for a 25 knot Dreadnought along the same lines), it was the first implementation. 

To that end the USN viewed her as being as revolutionary as Dreadnought herself. 

 

Hood and her half sisters are certainly tier VII material. 

 

It's not revolutionary as the Dreadnought, that's preposterous, again more of this over-blown reverence will not make it what it's not. It may have had some carry-overs from QE with armor, but again, it's structure was exceedingly suspect, the admiralty knew it and were careful with the ship until they had no choice to commit it to an engagement over a show of force. It's center deck armor was built on a stacked approach, but this was undone by delayed-charge shells introduced shortly after it's launching, plunging shells and bomb drops would put it in peril. If it turns out to be a T7, the complaints will be endless about how the T8 and T9 are sinking this ship endlessly, and that it's nothing more than a bridge ship to suffer through. 

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To continue the thought of gameplay, this ship will be target number one. No ship in this game will get targeted as much as the Hood. That'll be a relief for the owners of the Warspite.

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Because it's the sober thing to do, this is not the gob-smacking ship of WWII, it's a fast, middleweight boxer with a spine that's about the snap. And this where it falls apart having weight as the only factor for hit-point placement. That means I could bring a super-tanker at T10 (because of weight) into the mix and never be sunk (4 billion hitpoints), all I would do is ram every ship for the win. Hood is a tier six (a fat one then), without doubt. And factoring speed?? that would put a Kongo at T6, right? Or the Gneisenau at T8? Or if the Hood is placed at T7, once armor is breached (easily in the center with a direct hit from a Navada, Nagato or Gneisenau, never-mind by a T8), the damage should be massive, especially in the center section, as I explained above. 

Your point?  Nagato can get DS'd by T5 battleships if caught broadside, but that doesn't make her bad for T7.  

 

It's not any one of those factors on their own, it's the combination of all of them together that will push Hood to T7 even if a T6 has identical main battery and armor protection.  The extra 7 knots of speed are an absurd advantage: look at how far ahead the fast ships of T5, T6, and T7 are compared to their counterparts in WR.  And as the Amagi shows at T8, angling can make even the thinnest main armor belt adequate protection against battleship fire.

Edited by TenguBlade

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She seems a lot like a British Scharnhorst. And imagine the uproar that would have happened if the Scharn had been put at tier 6...

Hood belongs at tier VII. Her guns, speed, and to a degree, armor, make her good enough (in the right hands) to dish out a lot of damage to the enemy team. 

Much like other battle-cruisers, and fast battleships in game, she would be able to dictate her engagements, being able to get in and out quickly. 

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It's not revolutionary as the Dreadnought, that's preposterous, again more of this over-blown reverence will not make it what it's not.

I'm just passing on what the USN said. 

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The HMS Hood was really the last purpose built British battlecruiser, and was not continued as a class because of it's degree of obsolescence and its design deficiencies.

 

Actually battlecruisers weren't continued because the Washington Naval Treaty halted capital ship construction for a decade. Had that not happened she would've been followed up by even bigger and stronger BCs. At least nominally; in practice Iowa is more battlecruiser-like than G3 would've been.
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The issues you bring up with Hood's vertical protection is a red herring. The game doesn't take into account build quality, so this section: 

 this was compounded by center-stress, an area of great concern because the shear weight of two turrets at either end, so far apart caused significant structural problems, especially in the boat deck area, where the stresses were felt most. 

 

 isn't really relevant.

 

That and you're overstating the significance of plunging fire as with the in game autobounce and overmatch mechanics, 76mm of vertical protection will need 1087mm caliber to overmatch, essentially negating any plunging fire from anyshell coming in lower than 30 degrees angle of fall for those sections. 

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Hood is an easy tier 7 but besides, I have one thing to add here. People are using the common myth that Hood was sunk because of deck armor penetration, when this is untrue. The range and drop angles of Bismarcks 15 inch shells show that belt armor penetration is much, much more likely that deck penetration, which would extremely unlikely.

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People are using the common myth that Hood was sunk because of deck armor penetration, when this is untrue. The range and drop angles of Bismarcks 15 inch shells show that belt armor penetration is much, much more likely that deck penetration, which would extremely unlikely.

 

Courtesy of Wikipedia:

 An extensive review of these theories (excepting that of Preston) is given in Jurens's 1987 article. Its main conclusion is that the loss was almost certainly precipitated by the explosion of a 4-inch magazine, but that there are several ways this could have been initiated, although he rules out the boat deck fire or the detonation of her torpedoes as probable causes. In Jurens's opinion, the popular image of plunging shells penetrating Hood's deck armour is inaccurate, as by his estimation the angle of fall of Bismarck's 15-inch shells at the moment of the loss would not have exceeded about 14°, an angle so unfavourable to penetration of horizontal armour that it is actually off the scale of contemporaneous German penetration charts. Moreover, computer-generated profiles of Hood show that a shell falling at this angle could not have reached an aft magazine without first passing through some part of the belt armour. On the other hand, the 12-inch belt could have been penetrated, if Hood had progressed sufficiently far into her final turn.[85]

 

According to the Kriegsmarine's own testing of the 38cm gun, the chances of penetrating deck armor via plunging fire at the angles that would've been achievable at Denmark Strait were so low as to be effectively zero.

 

Hood was turning to bring her rear turrets to bear when Bismarck's 5th salvo was fired, and this gave the 38cm shells a flatter angle against her belt armor. This shows that while armor angling wasn't something that got considered in WW2 naval tactics (despite warship designers being well aware of its importance), it could in the right conditions be decisive to a battle. Bismarck got a lucky shot into the flat side of Hood's belt armor (relatively flat that is; the belt itself was internally angled at 12 degrees) at just the right spot for the shell to explode in a magazine for the 4" secondary guns and collapse the bulkhead separating it from the aft 15" magazines.

 

A 305mm belt sloped at 12 degrees isn't bad at all. By comparison Nagato had a 305mm and Colorado 343mm, both with no sloping.  North Carolina's armor is 305mm sloped at 15 degrees. Amagi would've been 250mm at 12 degrees. Hood's armor and HP pool would be adequate for T8; it's her guns that would hold her back to T7. (Likewise HMS Vanguard would be T9 material if not for having those same guns, which instead render her an obvious T8 premium.)

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Am I the only one that thinks that even WG doesn't yet know where the hell the Hood will sit in the tech tree?

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That would be surprising seeing as it's not hard at all to figure out. Hood is like a Warspite that can sail at 30 knots and has the HP pool of a T8 BB. There's no question that makes her T7.

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Why do people insist on placing her at tier 6? She has Nagato level hitpoints, Warspite firepower and 30 knots speed. Tier 7 material through and through.

 

Why does it matter?  WG has already stated that no RN BB's for 2017....I am really starting to think that even speculating on a RN tech tree is a waste as it seems more and more they will never make it into the game.

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Why do people insist on placing her at tier 6? She has Nagato level hitpoints, Warspite firepower and 30 knots speed. Tier 7 material through and through.

 

Nagato level hitpoints?  Where are you getting this information since WG already stated the RN BB's aren't even coming in 2017 at all??

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WG has already stated that no RN BB's for 2017

Can you provide a source for that?

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