Co-Op vs Random game play

[Deputy276]

Saw this post in a recent thread:

Deviathan: Example 2: Team agrees on 2 caps before the match begins.  Apparently this did not sit well with one player because a Murmansk gets mad about "all these backseat drivers telling me how to play my ship" and he promptly drives to the 3rd cap and dies in the first couple minutes of the match.  He spends the rest of the time going on in chat about how we probably never leave our moms' basements and we can go ahead and report him for being a bad teammate.  We won in spite of him, but it gets mildly annoying hearing about how toxic unicums are when this is the more ordinary experience for me these days.  Apparently wanting to have some semblance of a strategy and to win are mutually exclusive with having fun.

-------------------------------------

Me again. Interesting comments. I am a 100% Co-Op player. That player in the Murmansk should probably be in Co-Op play. Telling people how to play and using plans and strategies is minimal in Co-Op. So he would get along nicely there. What I find most interesting is the Random players who insist that Co-Op players "move up" to Random play. Picture 1/2 or 3/4 of your team all behaving EXACTLY like that Murmansk player. Because that's what you would have if Co-Op players "moved-up" to Random. Most Co-Op players are "lone wolves". At the beginning of a game, they MAY announce what area they are heading for. Or they may not. And they could very easily change their minds if they don't like the way things look. And Co-Op players aren't competing against bots. They are competing against EACH OTHER for kills and damage. So it's not uncommon for a Co-Op player to do some maneuvers that would drive a Random player up a tree. Like a ship cutting in front of you when you are trying to delete an enemy ship, just to take the kill. That is pretty common. It is also why there are so many pink Co-Op players. Lots of them will drive into a torp spread to take a kill. I know....freaking crazy, but also why there are so many pinks in Co-Op. Again...you Random players actually WANT that type of game play in a mode that in already suffering with so many "potatoes"?? I don't think so. And if you have some kind of delusions about teaching them better game play and tactics, furgetaboutit. They will scoff at you just like the Murmansk player did. Not because they think they know more than you. But because they actually PREFER their style of game play.

 

Now the other side of the coin...Random players in Co-Op. Newsflash, but Random players are NOT the "gods of the sea" they might think they are. And they show this when they go into Co-Op play because of Campaign requirements. The influx of camping BBs staying at the back of the map and "sniping" in Co-Op has reached epidemic proportions. This was all but gone before WG got the brilliant idea to integrate Co-Op/Random play via Campaigns. A simple fact...bots NEVER camp or snipe. They are highly aggressive. Passive play against bots simply doesn't work. When you sit at spawn waiting for them, they WILL show up. But they will show up in packs and focus fire on you. Poof...you die. Now many Random players haven't played Co-op for a long time. Things have changed. This is what you can experience at upper tier play in Co-Op:

 

The play style for high tier co-op play is very different.
It's partially because the AI cheats and knows when you fired shells or torps and immediately turns to avoid.
They also switch to/from HE/AP depending on your angle, they also never miss your citadel.
To top it all off, they know where you are even in concealment. If you're a destroyer or a carrier they will swarm towards you extremely fast.
They also know where planes are, and they understand the concept of focus firing.

DDs are priority #1 for bots and they will hunt them down mercilessly. If they are firing at a ship and a DD comes into range, they will immediately switch to firing at the DD, even though the original target is nearly dead.

 

So please...stop with the pleading and cajoling of Co-Op players to move to Random. You guys have enough problems with the potatoes you already have there. 

 

[ValkyrWarframe]

Average Random Player = Co-Op Bot

 

So go to Random for more rewards.

[Deputy276]

Average Random Player = Co-Op Bot

 

So go to Random for more rewards.

 

Sorry...not gonna happen. Average Co-Op players aren't the least bit interested in "more rewards". They are content with what they earn in Co-Op play. Plus the downsides of Random keep them away. 

[AVR_Project]

I disagree with the assessment of the original poster.

I see most co-op players as non-competitive.  I've never seen any rages or outbursts...  sorry..  only in Random or Ranked.

..

It's just a bunch of guys out on a trip with guns and empty beer cans to shoot at.

[Wowzery]

Average Random Player = Co-Op Bot

 

So go to Random for more rewards.

 

While I won't exactly agree, I've seen players who are way less smart than most bots.  And on a consistent basis in random games.  I mostly play random due to some campaign or for the better rewards at that time.  Currently I play random for the higher Free XP I get.

The one thing I do like in Coop, is the play style is overall more aggressive.  Sorry, but random is a passive style of play which can lead to very boring games, especially in the higher tiers.

[Spyde]

I don't see people telling Co-op players to go to random...

Most people just say Coop is what it is.. bots with no effort and very easy.  So don't expect a ton of Missions/support/rewards for it.

 

 

If that's what you want.. Enjoy. Can play how you want.

[Kilpanic]

The dirty secret of the game is that Co-op is also PvP. In Co-op, you are competing with other players for credits and xp, and matches are 'won' by tricking your teammates into tanking for you so you can stay alive and deal lots of damage. 

 

The nice thing about Co-op is that if you are a good player, the worse your teammates are the better it is for you. 

[ArIskandir]

 What I find most interesting is the Random players who insist that Co-Op players "move up" to Random play.

 

 

Well, we always want more people to join the party, shorter cue times, more food at the table, etc. But I think you are right conceptually speaking, sadly we have our own kind of unadaptative player who likes to party so wth, bring more food.

 

 If

  

ValkyrWarframe, on 09 January 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

Average Random Player = Co-Op Bot

 

then

 

Deputy276, on 09 January 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

knows when you fired shells or torps and immediately turns to avoid

They also switch to/from HE/AP depending on your angle, they also never miss your citadel.

they understand the concept of focus firing.

DDs are priority #1 and they will hunt them down mercilessly

 

=true

 

else Average Random Player < Co-Op Bot

 

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Mostly just play co-op to work off being pink, (though the last time that happened I just worked it off with my Takao in Randoms.)

 

Having learned to 'game the system' so to speak; I find co-op both relaxing and frustrating at the same time. Bots can be complete idiots; mutal suicide by ramming, focus-firing, and chasing down a single ship when it's patetntly stupid to do so.

 

AT THE SAME TIME; those things can be what makes bots smarter than some players I encounter; they focus fire; their aim is annoyingly good, the bot CV fighters always show up at the most annoying times. Beating the bots can be like clubbing seals; but at the same time, if the players don't cooperate, and the bots don't zone out, hit each other and just stop moving; THEY WILL kick the behinds of a team of 'real' players.

[Terrible_Turtle]

Nobody cares if you play Co-op or Random. 

 

What people disagree about is the assertion that Co-op should get similar rewards as Random. They're two entirely different modes with two entirely different difficulty levels and play styles. And before someone says something about being a Random-elitist, I understand that there is a sizable Co-op exclusive community that is here to stay. WG does care about that community and will be releasing new content for them in the future.

 

People seem to think you're either a Co-op snob or a Random snob. Things are not so black-and-white. 

 

On a side note, letting one or two players taint an entire community is a shame. 

[Skpstr]

Biggest reason I play PvP instead of PvE is unpredictability.

 

Less "ok, this is going to happen, so I better do this" and more "ok, I don't know if this or that (or even THIS) is going to happen, so I need to stay flexible."

 

Enemies that WILL focus fire can actually be a help to you, because they are, for all intents and purposes, "tunnel visioned", and you can attack them in whatever way is best for you, as long as you don't cross whatever threshold makes YOU the focus target.

 

Enemies that MIGHT focus fire can be more problematic, a ship might see you lining up for an optimal attack, and go for you as the more vulnerable target, rather than the one that makes more tactical sense to shoot at.

[Triela50]

Nobody cares if you play Co-op or Random. 

 

What people disagree about is the assertion that Co-op should get similar rewards as Random. They're two entirely different modes with two entirely different difficulty levels and play styles. And before someone says something about being a Random-elitist, I understand that there is a sizable Co-op exclusive community that is here to stay. WG does care about that community and will be releasing new content for them in the future.

 

People seem to think you're either a Co-op snob or a Random snob. Things are not so black-and-white. 

 

On a side note, letting one or two players taint an entire community is a shame. 

I have never seen a co-op player ask for the SAME rewards most just want a little more to make co-op viable 

[Maine_ARC_1]

I always thought that Co-Op should have the same rewards as Random and other types of battles, but the requirements should be double that of time, effort, skill, conditions to obtain, ect. that would be required in Random to get the same reward in Co-Op. This goes for any mission, event, ect.

[Terrible_Turtle]

I have never seen a co-op player ask for the SAME rewards most just want a little more to make co-op viable 

 

Just wait for Kconvey_1 to show up. It won't be long.

[Sprocket_Grease]

What people disagree about is the assertion that Co-op should get similar rewards as Random.

 

I don't believe that is the problem. The issue was repair costs were non-proportional in PVE...you got less rewards but ended up paying the same repair costs as PVP. It does appear to have been fixed.

 

As it is, I play both happily, although I will adnit to playing a bit more PVE, only jumping into PVP when I am feeling confident or am approaching earning the next tier in a line.

 

[ArIskandir]

 

Just wait for Kconvey_1 to show up. It won't be long.

 

he only asks for 80%... 

[ValkyrWarframe]

 

While I won't exactly agree, I've seen players who are way less smart than most bots.  And on a consistent basis in random games.  I mostly play random due to some campaign or for the better rewards at that time.  Currently I play random for the higher Free XP I get.

The one thing I do like in Coop, is the play style is overall more aggressive.  Sorry, but random is a passive style of play which can lead to very boring games, especially in the higher tiers.

 

Fine.

 

Average Random Player < Co-Op Bot

 

Is that statement not true?

[Terrible_Turtle]

 

he only asks for 80%... 

 

How careless of me. lol

[alexf24]

I play and enjoy both.

I have no issues with people who prefer 100% PvP or 100% Coop.

I do not believe the rewards should be the same and they are fine as-is (now that they fixed the fixed costs issue by adding a Coop credit bonus at the end).

 

It always amuses me when I see people new to Coop or the game, who do not understand Coop's meta and ask at first "what is the plan?" There is no plan in Coop. Bots are predictable and the more you know how they behave the easier it is to beat them. Coop is not about capping, but about killing the red bots, and avoid being TKd by the green bots. That is it.

 

Sure, I'd be happier if the bots did not cheat and made those impossible torpedo-beats. Bots should conduct a seminar to teach us how to do it.

[Maine_ARC_1]

 

he only asks for 80%... 

I'm not sure who this Kconvey_1 is, but it sounds like he wants a little to large of a piece of the action...

[Kconvey_1]

 

Just wait for Kconvey_1 to show up. It won't be long.

 

Its a reasonable request to make coop a little more viable, especially on the high end.

 

Also participation in events is not the same as asking for the same rewards, like the destroyer event that is going on now. Instead of being top 5, change it to top 2 or 3, and guess what, 25% experience is proportional to the level of experience you get for the mission. Seems fair enough.

 

[Kconvey_1]

 

he only asks for 80%... 

 

That was for a different mode! and you know it, that was for a practice pvp mode.

 

[Terrible_Turtle]

 

Just wait for Kconvey_1 to show up. It won't be long.

 

Its a reasonable request to make coop a little more viable, especially on the high end.

 

Also participation in events is not the same as asking for the same rewards, like the destroyer event that is going on now. Instead of being top 5, change it to top 2 or 3, and guess what, 25% experience is proportional to the level of experience you get for the mission. Seems fair enough.

 

 

THERE HE IS!!! 

 

Who called it?

[sbcptnitro]

Average Random Player = Co-Op Bot

 

So go to Random for more rewards.

 

Average random player can't aim any where close to what a bot can.

[ArIskandir]

I'm not sure who this Kconvey_1 is, but it sounds like he wants a little to large of a piece of the action...

 

In full truthfulness I'm tweaking his words a bit for comedy relief intentions, though he is very vocal in asking better rewards for PvE, the 80% he asks is for a no stats-PvP mode.

 

edit: Ha, ninja'd.