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mustangman6579

German CA. Is there a point?

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So I'm still at the Yorck. It was one of my first t7 ships, and I am still on it. I really don't like playing it. 

 

I just can't get into this ship. It seemed UP on all accounts to me. 

 

Should I keep pressing?

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Roon and Hindenburg are worth it. But be prepared to slog through the Hipper as she is not stellar by any means. I'd say she is as deserving of a buff as the infamous New Orleans.

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I've liked all the ships except for the Nurnberg and Hipper. Both rely heavily on their highly overrated AP. That, combined with a lot of smaller things, make them perform at less than impressive levels. But of you don't like the Yorck, I don't really see how you can like the Hipper, they play pretty similarly. I actually liked the Yorck, because of it's decent HE performance, the only German cruiser that has it.

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I've liked all the ships except for the Nurnberg and Hipper. Both rely heavily on their highly overrated AP. That, combined with a lot of smaller things, make them perform at less than impressive levels. But of you don't like the Yorck, I don't really see how you can like the Hipper, they play pretty similarly. I actually liked the Yorck, because of it's decent HE performance, the only German cruiser that has it.

 

it's HE is it's only saving grace. But the slow speed, steering, and guns kill it for me. It feels like a BB that gets citadeld all the time. 

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I agree but Hipper is where German CA playstyle start.

Numberg si like half german :D cause is worth still HE /AP mix

Yourck sux

Hipper AP sniper and if you know how to aim its OP

Roon and Hindenburg are similar..that is german play style..using advantage of AP dmg.

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I hate yet to play a match in this and not be hit in the cit at least once. Any angle. 

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I might be the odd man out here, but I actually loved the Yorck! Hated the Hipper, just now working on the Roon.

 

The quick and dirty: 

 

1) Run Demo Expert

2) Spam HE from long range all game

3) Never use AP on anything unless sub-12 km, preferably sub-10km

4) You should rarely ever be at sub-12 km or sub-10km

5) The AP is vastly slower velocity than the HE, avoid using it unless you meet #3. IF, you do however, meet #4, even a broadside BB can take massive damage from that AP. Aim for amidships on BBs for massive damage, waterline on cruisers for cits galore. Remember! This advice only applies to CLOSE range. Otherwise the AP is garbage with its slow velocity and you should use HE to watch the world burn.

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So I'm still at the Yorck. It was one of my first t7 ships, and I am still on it. I really don't like playing it. 

 

I just can't get into this ship. It seemed UP on all accounts to me. 

 

Should I keep pressing?

The Roon is probably the best tier 9 in the game, and the Hindenburg is pretty tanky for a cruiser. Hipper isn't that bad, I liked it and kept it.

Roon and Hindenburg are worth it. But be prepared to slog through the Hipper as she is not stellar by any means. I'd say she is as deserving of a buff as the infamous New Orleans.

 

I thought that the Hipper was easier to play than the Yorck, but I did that grind before the matchmaker change so I wasn't getting up tiered into tier 10 matches as frequently as I am now when I go back and play the Hipper. The different shell arcs between the HE and AP for the Yorck was just awful to play with IMO.

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it's HE is it's only saving grace. But the slow speed, steering, and guns kill it for me. It feels like a BB that gets citadeld all the time. 

 

You have to stay angled in her. The strategy the worked for me in her best is this: long range HE spam until enemy numbers are whittled down a bit. Pick a target, preferably a slow BB, and rush them while angled, using an appropriate ammo type, close the distance between you and them, and then use her great torpedo arcs to send them under.

 

Like with the other German cruisers, I'd only use her AP at 11km or less, since their penetration drop off is very unforgiving.

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So I'm still at the Yorck. It was one of my first t7 ships, and I am still on it. I really don't like playing it. 

 

I just can't get into this ship. It seemed UP on all accounts to me. 

 

Should I keep pressing?

 

I like Yorck quite a lot, and have found Admiral Hipper to be rather a let-down after - but this is entirely due to the state of matchmaking. Yorck, being Tier 7, gets to be top-tier more often than her predecessor or her successor.

 

I found success in Yorck ...

 

Never mind, I just saw DOCTOR_CITADEL's post. That sums it up.

 

If you get into close fights with enemy cruisers, Yorck's AP can absolutely demolish, but at range, the AP is nigh-useless. Demolition Expert is valuable, fires will do a lot for you. I also use Expert Loader on heavy cruisers - being able to rapidly switch ammo according to the situation can be valuable. That schmuck in Pensacola may only give you the flat side of his ship for ten seconds, and if you've got HE loaded you're going to miss out.

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The Admiral Hipper is not that bad if you don't go solo with it. If you stay with the main group of bbs you will do fine and it has some really good range with its guns and very accurate. The Yorck is just the crap of the line is all and is less painful once you get past it.

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Admiral Hipper in a nutshell (or Prinz Eugen if you want):

 

- Cruisers have a hard time dealing citadel damage, even battleships can have problems due to turtleback

- large health pool

- insane AA

- bow armor

- insane AP damage

- looks beautiful af

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I pass all cruisers and this is what make german Cruisers a bit tricky. AP on T8+  is totall OP but if enemy angle you do just funy dmg comapre to non brains JP and RUS cruisers where you need jsut hit the ship and fire did the rest. So your game can finish like 20k dmg or 150k :D 

Edited by Gandariel

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I might be the odd man out here, but I actually loved the Yorck! Hated the Hipper, just now working on the Roon.

 

The quick and dirty: 

 

1) Run Demo Expert

2) Spam HE from long range all game

3) Never use AP on anything unless sub-12 km, preferably sub-10km

4) You should rarely ever be at sub-12 km or sub-10km

5) The AP is vastly slower velocity than the HE, avoid using it unless you meet #3. IF, you do however, meet #4, even a broadside BB can take massive damage from that AP. Aim for amidships on BBs for massive damage, waterline on cruisers for cits galore. Remember! This advice only applies to CLOSE range. Otherwise the AP is garbage with its slow velocity and you should use HE to watch the world burn.

 

You should listen to the DOC he knows what hes talking about.

Yorck is my top ship. Over 300 games played. I love that ship so much. 

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Yea, i just tried AP on a cleveland. Didn't work. 

Tried it on a nurn and watching him pop though. 

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Admiral Hipper in a nutshell (or Prinz Eugen if you want):

 

- Cruisers have a hard time dealing citadel damage, even battleships can have problems due to turtleback

- large health pool

- insane AA

- bow armor

- insane AP damage

- looks beautiful af

 

This is just patently false. 

- Easy for any BBs to citadel from any angle, it's a cruiser, her turtleback isn't that thick.

- Large HP pool is a negligible advantage

- AA is good, but but not anything more

- Bow armor doesn't matter really, it's a cruiser and it's bow doesn't prevent overmatches

- AP damage is average

Edited by goldeagle1123

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So I have 6 T10s for reference. 

 

The York used to be bad, so I stopped short of it just like the Pensacola.  Business6 on YouTube really talked it up after the buffs, it has a different play style than a lot of the line.

 

Then I got a Santa Container with the Prinz Eugene and absolutely love it, so Hipper comes with my strong recommendation.

 

With that, I want the Roon more than the Hindenburg - but Hindenburg is a damn strong ship.  A lot of ships at and above T7 were a grind for the first half, then I would really like them.  I say grind it, if nothing else, Hipper is an awesome AP long range bomber and all around good T8 CA - BUT, LittleWhiteMouse has an accurate Hipper/Prinz Eugene review - the line may not be the best first line to run.  Maybe slow the grind on that line and take another line to T10 first?

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Yea, i just tried AP on a cleveland. Didn't work. 

Tried it on a nurn and watching him pop though. 

 

That's because Cleveland is secretly a tier 8 that's been wrung through the nerf machine to fit into tier 6 with a troll citadel.
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The Roon and Hindenburg are great ships.  Serviceable HE with great AP when the opportunity presents itself.. and isn't auto-citadeled from any angle unlike the way Hipper and Yorck feels.  I don't know if its worth the suffering though.  I went back to play Eugen since i got her in a box, and it just gave me PTSD  from the Hipper grind.  

 

Its a hard call and I do wish Hipper would be buffed.  It won't though, because German.

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So from what I read, the end game is worth it, but just terrible to get there. 

 

The Hindenburg is most def worth it

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I like German Cruisers but...

 

I struggle with Cruisers that have a turret arraignment that is heavier aft. Not a fan of Roon for this reason specifically or Nurn and one of the reasons why I liked Hipper was her traditional set up.

 

Getting citadeled through the butt sucks, I would rather face up to who I'm shooting at. Armor works better and torps are easier to use imo. The whole kite at range while gradually moving away and hope the reds shoot at whoever is front of you is not fun for me.

 

Hipper plays like a USN Cruiser but with great Torpedoes and I'm hoping Hindenburg is similar.

 

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This is just patently false. 

- Easy for any BBs to citadel from any angle, it's a cruiser, her turtleback isn't that thick.

- Large HP pool is a negligible advantage

- AA is good, but but not anything more

- Bow armor doesn't matter really, it's a cruiser and it's bow doesn't prevent overmatches

- AP damage is average

 

- turtle back of 30mm means that they won't overmatch unless Yamato. Angle is ~45° so there is a chance of a bounce. Also: low citadel

- 43.8k is still better than 39.1. Put it any way you want

- when upgraded into AA-boat, she only gets surpassed by Mikhail Kutuzow from all T8 Cruisers

- 40mm bow armor at the waterline stil prevents bow on citadels at closer range

- better AP damage than Moskva (which has bigger guns) is definitly above average. We are speaking of rapid firing Cruiser guns here. In fact only one Cruiser has stronger AP and that is Graf Spee for obvious reasons.

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This is gonna sound weird coming from a guy that just ditched the line at Tier IX....but, yes.  That point is massive AP DPM.  The secondary point is a choice between great hydro and solid AA performance.  The tertiary point is competent torpedoes with good firing arcs for ambushing/finishing ships at close range.  Lets do some math!

 

Hipper - 8 guns, 5900 AP alpha = 47200 alpha strike. 4 salvo/min = ~190000 DPM (and some change, I rounded).

Roon - 9 guns, 5900 AP alpha = 53100 alpha strike, 6 salvo/min = 320000 DPM (!!!) (again, math is hard, I rounded).

Hinderburg - 12 guns....mother of God...70,000+ alpha strike, over 420000 DPM (!!!) (yes, more rounding)

 

The trick is that your AP is difficult to use due to its poor penetration.  The benefit is that you can use it effectively even on DD.  It also shoots flat, so producing hits is fairly easy.  The HE is regarded as fairly bad...but, honestly...fires, fires, fires, because when you sling 9-12 rounds every 8.8 seconds you don't need a high fire chance.

 

If you can position well and ambush, these boats are great.  Concealment can bring their detection range down low enough for open water ambushes where you get the first shot.

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This is gonna sound weird coming from a guy that just ditched the line at Tier IX....but, yes.  That point is massive AP DPM.  The secondary point is a choice between great hydro and solid AA performance.  The tertiary point is competent torpedoes with good firing arcs for ambushing/finishing ships at close range.  Lets do some math!

 

Hipper - 8 guns, 5900 AP alpha = 47200 alpha strike. 4 salvo/min = ~190000 DPM (and some change, I rounded).

Roon - 9 guns, 5900 AP alpha = 53100 alpha strike, 6 salvo/min = 320000 DPM (!!!) (again, math is hard, I rounded).

Hinderburg - 12 guns....mother of God...70,000+ alpha strike, over 420000 DPM (!!!) (yes, more rounding)

 

The trick is that your AP is difficult to use due to its poor penetration.  The benefit is that you can use it effectively even on DD.  It also shoots flat, so producing hits is fairly easy.  The HE is regarded as fairly bad...but, honestly...fires, fires, fires, because when you sling 9-12 rounds every 8.8 seconds you don't need a high fire chance.

 

If you can position well and ambush, these boats are great.  Concealment can bring their detection range down low enough for open water ambushes where you get the first shot.

 

You know what's great? Roon with 8.8s reload mmm https://streamable.com/e42ag

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