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kuro466

zuiho vs bogue fighters?

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When playing the Zuiho vs a Bogue, his fighter squadron will completely OBLITERATE my fighters. We both go in at full, and I'll lose the whole squadron, and if I'm lucky I'll kill one of his fighters. I'm not even talking about air-superiority load-out, I'm just talking about 1-on-1 fighter squadrons.

 

What is going on? Is this "working as intended"? This seems completely broken.

 

How do you play Zuiho vs Bogue? Fly around fast empty bombers trying to kite his fighters until they are dead?

 

I've played the Bogue side of the matchup also, and with Bogue air-superiority, Zuiho can't really do anything against me. Of course my one little bomber does almost nothing to enemy ships, so both CVs are sort of nullified into uselessness. It's very boring. 

 

Does anyone keep these low-tier CVs around? Or is this just necessary pain to get to something more fun?

Edited by kuro466

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It's working as intended. I had to endure the pain too when I played the Zuiho. Best thing you can do is ignore the fact that you have fighters or use them as bait, or if you really want to try hard, strafe them or bait them over to friendly AA and then engage them. 

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Yeah Zuiho gets better bombers though. Bogue can't deal as much damage without losing all of its fighters.

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If you make it by the Zuiho, take solace in the fact that from that point onward, if you're in an IJN CV, you are always superior to any USN CV you encounter. Learn to be good at the micro and strafe with fighters, and it's completely mind boggling just how much better the IJN CV line is. There are a few down sides to this, but they aren't that bad really once you get used to it.

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The point of your fighters is to first and foremost draw the enemy fighters away from your strike forces for as long as possible. This lesson applies all throughout the entire line, even when you get enough fighters to straight up beat balanced and strike USN CVs in fighter slugfests.

 

It's not just about throwing your fighters at his and locking them until they die. You have to pull back when he pushes forward, overextending them into friendly AA and dodging strafes that he may try to employ. The best case scenario is when your strike goes off uncontested without ever having engaged enemy fighters.

 

And though you may feel helpless when a USN CV noms up all your fighters and you've lost air control, in the end sinking ships wins more games and rewards more for it.

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And though you may feel helpless when a USN CV noms up all your fighters and you've lost air control, in the end sinking ships wins more games and rewards more for it.

 

^This is so true. I like to say that carrier attack power lets them win games, but carrier air superiority load outs help prevent defeat. Those two things might sound similar, but they aren't. When a player helps their team win, they directly contribute to victory, and their contributions mean they aren't dependant on team mates to carry them to winning 100% of the time. When a player is helping their team prevent defeat, they are making it harder for the enemy to win the match, but aren't directly contributing to winning for their team mates, and have to rely on the team to take advantage of what is being done in order to carry them to victory.

 

As a sort of quick example of what I mean, if a person kills an enemy destroyer, that helps their team win. If a person spots an enemy destroyer, but can't damage or kill it, that helps prevent defeat. Both are good, but one is better than the other.

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When playing the Zuiho vs a Bogue, his fighter squadron will completely OBLITERATE my fighters. We both go in at full, and I'll lose the whole squadron, and if I'm lucky I'll kill one of his fighters. I'm not even talking about air-superiority load-out, I'm just talking about 1-on-1 fighter squadrons.

 

What is going on? Is this "working as intended"? This seems completely broken.

 

How do you play Zuiho vs Bogue? Fly around fast empty bombers trying to kite his fighters until they are dead?

 

I've played the Bogue side of the matchup also, and with Bogue air-superiority, Zuiho can't really do anything against me. Of course my one little bomber does almost nothing to enemy ships, so both CVs are sort of nullified into uselessness. It's very boring. 

 

Does anyone keep these low-tier CVs around? Or is this just necessary pain to get to something more fun?

 

Zuiho has Zeros and Bogue has Wildcats. Historically Zeros were better than Wildcats, and this is reflected in the game. On the upside though, the F6F Hellcats on Independence were designed specifically to counter Zeroes so once you get the Independence things will be a little easier when it comes to attrition between fighters.

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The Ryujo solves a lot of problems if you end up running AS while dealing with the same tier USN carriers. 

 

Does anyone keep these low-tier CVs around? Or is this just necessary pain to get to something more fun?

 

I keep my Hosho around for seal clubbing. :3

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Needless Assessment: Zuihou is sort of like a reverse strike Bogue as far as the different number of squad types (Bogue db focus, Zui tb focus) 

Tips for playing well in Zui even against an AS Bogue (as I have found out both on my own and by a friend who frequents CV, especially high tier) 

  • Use the dive bomber as fighter bait and as an extra spotter.
    • Dive bombers gain a massive speed boost when their payload is dropped (as they should), enabling them to scout just as effectively as the fighters. 
    • You can use said empty dive bombers to lure the fighters into friendly AA, then lock em with your own fighters.
    • It's entirely possible to try and make enemy fighters attack your dive bomber instead and save your torp bombers while your fighters are doing other things, but that probably won't happen (i.e. isolate the db) 
    • Strafing is viable as well of course (best when his fighters are caught by a catapult fighter). Don't always shy away from friendly fire due to the strafe if it means the trade at least is equal.

 

Outsmart the guy, divert his fighters away from your strike force. That's another way of combating fighters. 

Edited by Cruiser_Kashii

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Aside from what the rest of the thread has said (dance around his fighters instead of fighting head on):

 

Notice how your team tends to split into ~9 ships as a main fleet and a squad of ~3 ships that try to flank? Try and cut a path for the flanking ships earlygame, more often than not they'll take out that pesky Bogue while they're going wild in the red fleet's back ranks. It's not a short-term solution, but having the opposing carrier die 10 minutes is still better than having him be a thorn in your side the whole game.

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Squigly has it right. Most of my bogue defeats were where a red DD slipped through and killed me early to mid game. It is the bogue's biggest weakness, large detection range combined with sail boat speed.

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